Wing Commander Collectible Trading Card Game Usenet Posts
The creators of the Wing Commander Collectible Trading Card Game made themselves available on the Usenet in 1995 and 1996 to promote the game and answer questions. Posts by Don Perrin and Chrome Sync are archived below, providing both rules clarifications and valuable context to the game's release history.
Don Perrin
May 5, 1995
Hey out there...I'm wondering if anybody out there knows anything about the Wing Commander CCG I saw advertised around here a while back. I'm a huge fan of the entire WC series, and if anybody has any info, it would be greatly appreciated.
The Wing Commander collectable card game will be released in August of this year. It will be published by Mag Force 7 (the makers of the Star of the Guardians CCG) in agreement with Origin Systems, and be designed by myself and Don Perrin (designer SotG). In creating this game we have tried to capture the flavor and features of the Wing Commander III game, and as a result there will be two different decks offered - one for the Terran Confederation, and the other for the cat-like alien Kilrathi. Each deck will contain cards specifically for that side, and they will have separate backs. The game itself captures the feel of two dueling carriers, each launching their fighters to strike against the other. You win by sinking your opponent's carrier, or reducing his ability to carry on the battle to nil.
The game is currently in playtest in a number of areas across the country, and we are receiving the first art pieces now (which look wonderful and are by a number of excellent space artists, including Alan Guiterez and Barkley Shaw). Its really shaping up to look like a cool game, and more information will be available as we rocket towards our print date.
Hope this helps,
June 19, 1995
Subject: Wing Commander pre-orders
Preorders for Wing Commander are now available through most retailers and distributors. The limited run will be very limited (600 cases decks, 600 cases boosters) and they're already half gone. Order now or miss out!
New prices are: $7.95 per starter (6 Kilrathi, 6 Terran decks per display)
$2.65 per booster (36 boosters - mixed cards - per display)
The game will hit at GenCon, with Mark Hamill (who played Col. Christopher Blair in WCIII) at the Mag Force 7 booth on Science Fiction Saturday.
Hope to see you there.
July 31, 1995
- What is the best two-person trading card game other than Magic?
Game play: Star of the Guardians by Mag Force 7. If you like a complex game play but simple rules, and the cards don't cost much.
Art: Guardians by FPG. This game is stunning to look at.
Collectibility: Star Trek by Decipher. They have good looking cards, and are well collectible, but their game has some cards that unbalance.
Those are my three picks after Magic. Also, there's Wing Commander, that will be on the market at the end of August. It is built as a two player game, and plays with two different sides (one player has Terran Confederation cards and one player has Kilrathi Empire cards). It's based on the hottest CD-ROM game in history. See it at GenCon at the Mag Force 7 booth. If you're going to be there on Saturday, Mark Hamill will be there to autograph his own Wing Commander: Heart of the Tiger card.
August 4, 1995
Subject: Wing Commander & Mark Hamill
Mag Force 7, Inc. will be releasing the Wing Commander Collectible Trading Card Game. Based on the world's best-selling CD-ROM title, the Wing Commander CTCG provides all of the action of the computer title, but without the need for the computer!
Play either the Kilrathi Empire Wing Commander, launching your fighters from the Sivar's Glory, or play the TCS Victory's Wing Commander. Decks will be sold as either Terran Confederation or Kilrathi Empire, and booster packs will contain a mix of each.
Mark Hamill, the star of Wing Commander III - Heart of the Tiger, will be at the Mag Force 7 booth at GenCon on August 12. He'll be signing his own promo card for the Wing Commander CTCG - only 10,000 were printed. Drop by the booth, learn to play the game, and meet Mark Hamill.
Come and see us at GenCon!
August 19, 1995
Subject: GenCon Wing Commander Report
GenCon was a great success for us at Mag Force 7. We launched the Wing Commander Collectible Trading Card Game, based on the ORIGIN Systems CD-ROM game. Mark Hamill was our guest for Science Fiction Saturday, and signed many a "Colonel Christopher Blair" con card (as well as a Star Wars picture or two :) We had four tables for demos and were able to keep eight games running near constantly. We actually moved more cases of the product than many of our major distributors ordered, and all in four days! We bought the absolute best 12 point playing card stock, and enhanced the art with artists like Bob Eggleton (Hugo winner), Barclay Shaw, Bill Hodgson, and Alan Gutierrez.
The cards just shipped to the distributors last Wednesday, so it should hit the shelves sometime next week. We're always interested in comments and critiques. Please post them here in rec.games.trading-cards.misc.
August 29, 1995
- My friend and I were looking over my starter sets of Wing Commander and we very quickly came to the conclusion by comparing ship stats that the humans are at a serious disadvantage. We think the problem is that they are paying too much in muster cost for mediocre to inferior ships. Does any one have any comments on this?
I haven't seen an imbalance in the game because of the stats yet. We've played many, many games now, and haven't seen this. The difference is that the Terrans get cheap, common pilots and pilot awards. You should find that this balances the difference between the two quite quickly.
I'd like to see what the community thinks on this one.
September 14, 1995
1. Does all movement take place before combat? We had a game where the Kilrathi player positioned a set of two flights each at the Nav Points flanking the Carrier. The first group went in and destroyed the fighters guarding the carrier, then they went home. On the same turn, the other group then attacked the now defenseless carrier and destroyed it. Is this legal?
Nope! All movement must be completed before combat starts!
2. Can a Paktahn, Thunderbolt or Longbow mount a Weapon System card in addition to a Torpedo?
No. Only one weapon card can be placed on a fighter. We're thinking of making the "Stealth Technology" weapon break this rule, so that two weapons could be carried.
3. If a fighter is destroyed, but both players play a "Capture Pilot/Recover Pilot" card, who gets the pilot?
If the owner of the pilot recovers the pilot and the opponent captures the pilot, then the pilot is captured. You can't capture your own pilot, and you can't recover a captured pilot. I hope that makes sense!
4. Are you going to do expansions based on Wing Commander 4 or any of the other Wing Commander games?
We're seriously looking into that now. I've just received a bunch of stuff from Origin Systems on Wing 4 (hehehehehe - no, I can't tell you - I'm sworn to secrecy) I think that it would be a good idea. We'll have to sell lots and lots of WC-CCG before that happens, though.
Cheers!
September 19, 1995
Subject: Wing Commander Boxes
We are selling Wing Commander Booster and Starter boxes for $90 each (COD in US). Many people have found that retailers in their area do not have these cards, but they still want them.
Please email me at dperrin@wise-net.com if you are interested.
September 20, 1995
One thing we've found since playing a lot is that some of the luck cards should be restricted to one/deck, however, the majority of them don't need to be restricted. For example, a bunch of Malfunction cards would really screw someone who depended on weapons, but they would be of marginal use against someone who uses manuevers. I have no problem if someone wants to put a bunch of these in their deck. Now the Well- Placed Hit, that's another matter...
Hi Cliff;
We weren't sure which of the luck cards would break the game if you had too many of them, but we knew it would be the luck cards that would break the game, given the chance. We went with one of any one luck card just to make sure that the game would be balanced, and that future expansions would not come in and bust up the party. We also felt that the luck cards are just that, luck, so we don't want people making decks built around specific lucks. It should be all of the rest of the cards that decks are built around.
Loved your "It's gotta be the pilots" deck. I think I'll try that with a Kilrathi deck, and see if I can get away with it. We're starting a league here in Lake Geneva very soon (Sep 27), so I'm going to put this one together as my Kilrathi deck. I still like the "Moneybags" deck (Tolwyn, Transports and cheap fighters) for the Terrans.
Thanks for the idea on the Stealth Technology. We don't want to do it that way, because the Strakha is supposed to be a Stealth Fighter, but we don't play it that way. We just incorporated a big defense into it. My thoughts, anyway.
Cheers!
September 21, 1995
The Luck cards are definitely a must (Well-Placed Hit, Mr. Kat, Malfunction, Summons from Kilrah, etc.). Even though you can only play one of each in your deck, you can save them for that sneaky moment in the middle of combat.
I find that this is very true. Sivar's Blessing (Kilrathi Mr. Kat) is the most critical for me, as I am currently playing a Kilrathi bomber attack (sink the carrier) deck. I need to pull off a torpedo hit against my enemy early, and can't afford for my torpedo to malfunction.
Last night I tried a terran Woman's Corps deck. It worked rather well, considering that the theme gives you pilots and crew with no common combat ability thread. I may keep that one.
Subject: WCDR: All singles available!
We have all of the Wing Commander Collectible Trading Card Game singles available. All rares are $3.00, all uncommons are $1.00 and all commons are $.25, with the following exceptions:
Mr. Kat Terran Luck $2.00 Wing Commander Terran Pilot $4.00 Maniac Terran Pilot $4.00 Dreadnaught Kilrathi Mod $3.50
Email me at dperrin@mag7.com if interested. Shipping in the US is included. We'll negotiate for overseas shipping.
September 22, 1995
Is the Kilrathi transport correct as written (i.e. the Kilrathi player loses 1 Power Point if it is destroyed)? The reason I ask is that the Terran player loses 3 Power Points if he loses a transport.
No, the card is correct. It's a balancing factor with the Terran overbalance in pilots.
Is there any timing or sequence of events with respect to how cards are played in combat? For example, my opponent plays a manuever to remove the modifier from a Nav Point, can I respond with a Luck card (e.g. Well-Placed Hit) which takes advantage of the Nav Point modifier BEFORE it is removed? My intuition says NO since the players take turns playing cards, defender first.
The luck cards are played out of sequence. Combat Resolution, however, happens after the maneuver phase. Thus, if you played a Well-Placed Hit, and then I got rid of the modifier card, then when it came to Combat Resolution, the modifier would not count in the calculations.
I hope that this helps!
Well, those are my thoughts... Do you guys plan on doing some expansions for this game? If so, do you have a timetable yet??
Thanks, Cliff. We do plan to do expansions for the game, but we're waiting until Christmas to see what the market response will be. So far, retailers have been extatic over the game, but distributors are not as excited. If you're a retailer and want the product, you've got to hammer at your distributor until he carries it (unless you deal with the larger distributors - they're no problem).
No timetable yet, but with luck, soon.
September 24, 1995
You are not required to engage enemy fighters at a Nav Point (including the carrier, I think) which leads to some "stalling" tactics when playing the game. I have a couple of nasty fighters ready to blow your carrier out of existence. Unfortunately (for you), you don't have anything to really stop me, so you put out one Arrow (or Darket) on your turn (and refuse to attack) which prevents me from attacking the carrier on my turn.
While this process isn't bad once or twice, after several turns, it starts to drag out the game preventing it's seemingly normal conclusion. There needs to be something which prevents this long term "tactic" because this increase in length does nothing to increase the play value of the game. We've begun using a house rule which requires everyone to attack if you are in a carrier Nav Point (only). Another solution we pondered was that you can't collect Reinforcements if there are enemy fighters at your carrier Nav Point.
Yes, it can be a problem. I'm not certain what the answer is. If you restrict the opponent's ability to react by not letting him launch, then I think that's too devestating. If you allow the attack the same turn that you shoot down the fighters, then the attacker is to devestating. I like the idea that you get no new muster points if you have enemy fighters at your Carrier Nav Point. Try that out, and see if it works.
Cheers!
What happens when you run out of cards in your draw pile?
You play with what you have already in play. All you do is skip the draw phase. If the game cannot be won by either player at that point, it is a Draw.
Why are Kilrathi Torps only loadable on the Paktahn and not the Vaktoth? They both have bomb stats.
The Origin Systems source materials indicated that the Vaktoth was a heavy fighter and not capable of carrying a torpedo (without a special mount). The TBolt can according to their stats. We just wanted to ensure accuracy to their material.
What's the point behind duplicate carrier's? I have a friend with three Sivar's Glory cards! The other two came from boosters. Were these meant to be other cards?
No, the carriers are intentional. To ensure that you get one, we had to seed the mix rather heavily (one of every six nav points is a carrier card). In the boosters, you get a nav point card. This way, if a store is out of starters, you could buy a bunch of boosters and get enough nav points and carriers to play.
In a message I had sent to you before asking about torps you said the torp dropped that fighter's bomb stat to 0 and the torp did the hit on the carrier then the stat went back to whatever it was and then that was used for attack on the carrier. Now my question was is that all done in the same combat round or would it be one round for the and then your next turn when you attack you finish his off? (boy that was long and drawn out wasn't it?)
The bomb factor would go up for the next combat, not the one in which the torpedo is used.
September 26, 1995
You missed my point. I am NOT saying that on a given turn, the attacker should be able to destroy the fighters at the Nav Point and then attack the carrier on the same turn. I AM referring to the fact that the defender can launch a fighter onto his carrier Nav Point (on his turn) AND not attack, effectively preventing the attacker from attacking it ON his (the attacker's) next turn.
This I like. If there are enemy fighters at your carrier nav point and you have fighters at your carrier nav point, you must declare an attack at the nav point, or have vacated it (either back to the carrier or on to another nav point). If there are fighters of both sides there, a fight must occur.
I'd say that's a good rule clarification. It certainly would reduce the sitting around in the situation you described.
September 28, 1995
What about a Jump point card. It could be a luck card that could only be used by Longbows, vaktoths, bloodfangs and sorthaks.Of course with this could go Jump point cloaks and jump point shields for the kilrathi to stop the card. In order for the terrans to defend their jump points they could have something like a 2nd jump point card to stop the cloak and a bombing raid card to stop the shield. Of course all of this does kind of make a big advantage for the kilrathi, but it was part of the war.
How about some more nav point modifiers like starbases, supply depots, scout frigates and corvettes. How about the stuff from the 3do version. Gun platforms as modifiers and vampire missile weapon systems.
And last but not least, the Love Interest pilot award. Gives defense or something.
Oh yeah, for that "control" card. Why not call it a Space Superiority secret mission card. If you control more nav points you could get more fighters launched, a.k.a. more muster points for each round you control the most.
Cool ideas for an expansion, thanks!
If you have a nav point with 2 of your fighters in it, and the enemy attacks you with 2 fighters can you:
A) Split the attack into 1 on 1. or B) Fighters can only support each other as 1 attacks another.
When you have 2 fighters and your opponent has 2 fighters at a nav point, there is one big battle. First, the defender may choose to switch his 2 fighters, so that they line up against different fighters, or he can leave them in place. Next, the defender may play his first maneuver card, using either of his fighters. Then, the offensive player is able to play one maneuver, on either one of his fighters. This process continues until both players have passed. Once that happens, you calculate damage, and declare which fighters are attacking and which fighters are supporting.
Does that help?
Cheers!
September 29, 1995
Hi Don, I bought some WC cards at Gen Con and have found the game to be somewhat enjoyable and I'm debating on whether to buy more cards or not. Since I have only 4 starters and 12 boosters, I haven't seen a lot of the cards in the set. As a result, I'm not quite certain what deckbuilding strategies one can employ. Could you please describe say 5 or so different deck themes you could use in construction. If you could also highlight some of the main cards in each deck, that would be helpful.
Hi! Sure I can go over some of the theme decks bashing each other here at Mag Force 7.
The Rachel and her Toys Deck: Rachel Coriolis (or Nickodameus on the fur side) provides one medal point to a flight with a weapon card. Every fighter that launches has a weapon. Pilots are optional. I send lots of torpedo carrying TBolts out and try to go after the carrier directly.
Four Arrows for your Carrier Deck: This one uses lots and lots of torpedo mounts, torpedos, a bizillion maneuvers and, of course, Arrows. You fly out there with a mit full of maneuvers and knock down heavier fighters (you have a far better maneuver rating than their slower stuff) and then swarm the carrier for two hits. This one's worked twice out of four games, so I may have to beef up my battle damage cards. They have the psychological effect that players seem to need to take the fighter home to fix it. While they're home, I'm doing torp runs on the carrier!
Basic Plodding Doom Deck: I use this one when I play Jeff Grubb and I'm playing Kilrathi. I play lots of Vaktoths and Strak'has, lots of attack weapon systems, and very few maneuvers. I try to use as many medal producers as possible. Out they go, and just shoot everything in sight.
Moneybags Deck: This is the deck that Jeff uses against me when he plays Terran (and I must admit, it works better than my basic plodding doom deck). He uses a few heavy fighters, lots of mediums, Transports and Admiral Tolwyn. He may spend two in a turn, but he just went up four. He uses lots of expensive luck cards to pound me into salt.
Space Control Deck: Either side can do this one (although I haven't tried it yet). Lots of little fighters and lots of Nav Point Modifiers (the ships). You go out, grab space, and hold it against big odds. You can go either for your opponent's points or his carrier with this one. Like I say, I haven't tried this (hey, something to do tonight).
I hope that this helps. Let me know any ideas you guys have come up with.
November 9, 1995
Subject: [WING] Multiplayer Variants Wanted
We are looking for any multiplayer variants for Wing Commander that we can publish in an article in one of the major game magazines. We'd like the variants to be well tested, and well described. Please include a diagram with your submission.
The variants published will give credit to their authors, and each selected variant author will be sent 2 Wing Commander decks and 6 Wing Commander boosters for their efforts. Send them to dperrin@mag7.com, or if you find that you can't seem to get through, to dperrin@wise-net.com.
I would encourage those of you who submit variants to post them in the newsgroup, just to shake out the bugs. It will also prevent me from getting multiples of the same variant.
The deadline for submissions is 0900 CST 17 Nov 95.
Thanks, and good hunting!
November 13, 1995
This is one I actually got working. People have been complaining that you don't get quite enough power, but I think that the game needs to be a little power tighter (two player works better if you start at 20, imo).
Play it just like normal, but arrange your playboard in such a fashion that every player has three nav points between them and each other player. Example, four player:
C C
N N N
N N N
N N N
C C
This one looks really good. We'll try it out on Wednesday and if we like it (and I think that we will), we'll use it in the article.
Thanks for posting it!
November 15, 1995
I would also be interested in seeing any Solitaire Variants.
I understand that someone out there has a solitaire variant, but I haven't seen it personally, and thus haven't tried it. Anyone out there have one?
January 9, 1996
My sarcasm detector just pinged. I can't believe they went with their dead overhead shot shot for art when they rereleased SOTG, but I take back my earlier comment about Jyhad/VES card back switch, these guys changed the name of the game too
The games may have a somewhat similar flavor, but Wing Commander and Star of the Guardians are two different games. Star is about fleet action in space, with some politics thrown in. Wing is a tactical aircraft carrier duel, based on the best-selling CD-ROM game.
You may be surprised to hear it, but we still sell good quantities of Star of the Guardians, and I get an aweful lot of questions on the game, indicating that there is still interest out there. Wing Commander, of course, is very popular, and I'd guess it will be even more so when Wing Commander IV - The Price of Freedom CD-ROM game comes out.
Just my thoughts and ramblings :)
Chrome Sync
May 5th, 1995
Hey out there...I'm wondering if anybody out there knows anything about the Wing Commander CCG I saw advertised around here a while back. I'm a huge fan of the entire WC series, and if anybody has any info, it would be greatly appreciated. Please E-mail, since I don't read this too often. Thanx in advance,
Wing Commander is currently in playtesting. It used a modified version of the Lane-to-Lane system from Star of the Guardians. The game still needs a few tweaks, but is very fun to play. While I personally haven't played any of the WC computer games, everyone else in my group has, and they're very happy with the adaptation. (Frankly, they're also happy with the play, but I'm the perfectionist in the bunch!)
If I recall rightly, Wing Commander is set for an August 15th release.
September 8, 1995
I have read the rules and I am still confused about access to and from the Ready Area. 1.) When moving OUT of the ready area do you always have to first move to the Carrier NAV point? Does that take one turn?
Yes and yes.
2.) When returning to the ready area as standard movement (as opposed to after combat or from playing a maneuver card), do you have to move from NAV point to NAV point through the Carrier NAV point, one point per turn?
Yes.
I assume from the rules, that after surviving an attack (as the attacker) you are allowed to go directly to the ready area.
Correct again! You *do* understand it. :)
And you'll be happy to know a FAQ/Rulings file is in the works. look for it around 9/20 ... hopefully sooner!
September 12, 1995
The only question I have is concerning the combat system. I'm just a tad confused as to whether when 2 flights meet 2 enemy flights at a navpoint, are 2 separate one-on-one battles resolved, or just one big 2-on-2 battle?
A B
* * * * *
C D
It's kinda one big battle. Once all is said and done (manuevers and battle damage), A cab use its attack against C, or add its support value to B's attack value against D. Perhaps C uses its attack value on A, and D uses its attack value one B.
Make sense?
September 22, 1995
Don (and anyone else who's reading):
Ooh, ooh, I am. :)
4) Do more Modifier cards. These are cool and really emphasize the importance of fighting for a given Nav Point.
A good idea; there are plenty of ideas Star fo the Guardians used for lane modifiers, for example ...
5) Do more Weapons which do more than simply modify a fighter's values. A weapon which gives you "first strike" (representing standoff capability) or a superior manuevering system which prevents you from being attacked if your opponent's manuever is below a certain value. In short, you can have a world of fun with the equipment for this game.
Very nice expansion options ... also perhaps weapons that can be paired together (breaking the one weapon system limit).
6) Develop some cards which help the manuever decks get more cards into their hands. Generally, these decks run out of gas since they need to use several (3-4) cards/combat just to keep even with the bruiser fighter deck.
Perhaps a Crew member who increases hand size? Maybe a Luck card allowing you to draw extra cards?
7) Different races with their own different feel/style would (again) dramatically increase the diversity of the game. I've never played the computer game, so I don't know if any other races even exist, but on the chance they do, let's see them!
It might start to parallel SFB ... and that's not necessarily bad, in this instance ...
Well, those are my thoughts... Do you guys plan on doing some expansions for this game? If so, do you have a timetable yet??
Thanks for the input. Don, do we have an expansion schedule?
