Your Favorite ship

[Bandit LOAF]

Mini Kerri-Lee hates you all.

 

[Earthworm]

EW: But Action Stations can't happen when the war isn't on - and it isn't, according to the Movie

.

What in the unholly hell are you talking about Q?

The dates in CH are wrong because Chris McCubbin (author of the Confed Handbook) messed up (yeah, lets blame it on fictional characters!

). But I can assure you, there was a war going on.

 

[Metras]

Well, I don't think that was an intentional screw up Earthworm

. Our friend of the Confed Handbook (at least he did an ok job), was working with fictional characters and fictional dates, all mixed-up in parody and gameplay.

He did an ok job with the mix up.

Why don't you try organizing all the dates of major events and put it up on CIC? I wouldn't be the only one who would be eager to look at it (we all know how messed up the dating system is in the movie, the games, and the books).

 

[TC]

That would be what the whole Timeline project is for...

LOAF... does she hate me too... (wow... this is just asking for it...)

TC

------------------
CAG of the Blacklance HQ
"Canadian and proud of it"-TC

 

[Earthworm]

The Baron is already working on a timeline and an encyclopedia. But with all the history in WC it's a tough job.

 

[Metras]

And I was wondering if such things were possible (its unfortunate that dates are scattered in all the books, games [not including the movie]).

------------------
Metras

Member of BlackLance HQ

"To take one step forward, you must look back three steps... and walk forward while looking back... "

 

[Quarto]

What in the unholly hell are you talking about Q? The dates in CH are wrong because Chris McCubbin (author of the Confed Handbook) messed up (yeah, lets blame it on fictional characters! ). But I can assure you, there was a war going on.

Uh... fictional characters? Chris McCubbin is quite real

. Anyway, what in unholy hell am I talking about? From the CIC's News Archive, for February 1999:

(On Feb 3rd, Chris McCubbin says)
"[...] I must take exception to one of the main points you made - that I disregarded, forgot or altered continuity in the book. It's not the Confed Handbook that changed continuity, it's the movie itself. Everything in the Confed Handbook follows RELIGIOUSLY from the continuity of the MOVIE. However, that continuity is deliberately, extensively and consistantly DIFFERENT from the continuity of the games.

I like to explain it by reference to Batman. Batman has a comics series, a series of movies and an animated series. Each one uses the same characters, basically the same motivations, and all have certain benchmark events in common. However, things fit together differently - they are different, although related -- realities. That's the way it is with the movie and the games (and the animated cartoon too, for that matter). They are not part of the same story, they are different stories about the same people. [...]"

(On Feb 4th, Chris McCubbin adds)
"[...] It's the damn Pilgrims' fault. EVERYTHING is the damn Pilgrims' fault. If they hadn't decided to make Blair Pilgrimerific, the continuity could have been a LOT closer to the games'.

Specifically, re. the date of the Iason incident ... OK, Blair's in his early 20s. His parents were both killed in the Pilgrim war when he was a toddler (actually, the script implies he was a bit older, but I fudged). If I stuck with the games' chronology, this means that the Pilgrim affair either *immediately* preceeded the Kilrathi dustup, or they actually overlapped.

So why is that a problem? Well, to me at least, one of the central themes of the whole Wing Commander milieu has always been the resonance with real-world history. Call it the "Pearl Harbor" metaphor. (Bill Fortschen has carried this metaphor sometimes to extremes in the game novels.) The assumption has always been that when the Kilrathi attacked, Confed was big, peaceful, reasonably enlightened and more than a bit complacent - just like the US when the Japanese attacked Pearl. If the Kilrathi had immediately followed the Pilgrim thing, Confed would have been a bit more battered but a LOT more ready. Like America going into Korea. That just seemed wrong, so I juggled the timeline to give Confed a few years' buffer between the wars. (And let's emphasize here that if I hadn't changed the dates, the Pilgrim thing would have still introduced discrepencies into continuity, they just might have been a bit better camoflaged.)

Basically, it was a choice between sticking closer to the chronology of the games, or to the central themes of the games. I decided that theme was more important to keeping the book a "real" Wing Commander experience. [...]"

---------

Good enough for you? It was neither an intentional nor an unintentional mistake. It was a well-thought-out change, and it's here to stay, no matter how hard you try to ignore it. The WC Movie is a different continuity.
I should point out that I've always been a great supporter of what McCubbin says in that last paragraph - that the Movie was true to the WC theme in spite of the chronology.

 

[Earthworm]

Uh... fictional characters? Chris McCubbin is quite real

. Anyway, what in unholy hell am I talking about? From the CIC's News Archive, for February 1999:

Chris Roberts is real. Chris McCubbin is someone who serves in the Confed navy. CM happened to be the author of the Confed Handbook for 2653/54, as well as the Confed Handbook for 2681 (which I like to call the Prophecy Official Guide

)

"[...] I must take exception to one of the main points you made - that I disregarded, forgot or altered continuity in the book. It's not the Confed Handbook that changed continuity, it's the movie itself. Everything in the Confed Handbook follows RELIGIOUSLY from the continuity of the MOVIE. However, that continuity is deliberately, extensively and consistantly DIFFERENT from the continuity of the games.

He he, that’s bull. Anyone could make the CH accurate to the already egsisting timeline, because the fact that the movie features Pilgrims doesn’t mean it changed anything.

(On Feb 4th, Chris McCubbin adds)
"[...] It's the damn Pilgrims' fault. EVERYTHING is the damn Pilgrims' fault. If they hadn't decided to make Blair Pilgrimerific, the continuity could have been a LOT closer to the games'.

Again, bull. Blair being a Pilgrim didn’t mess up anything.

Specifically, re. the date of the Iason incident ... OK, Blair's in his early 20s. His parents were both killed in the Pilgrim war when he was a toddler (actually, the script implies he was a bit older, but I fudged). If I stuck with the games' chronology, this means that the Pilgrim affair either *immediately* preceeded the Kilrathi dustup, or they actually overlapped.

Wha? The Pilgrim affair overlaped by few months with the Kilrathi war, but at that time the Pilgrims were as good as defeated.

So why is that a problem? Well, to me at least, one of the central themes of the whole Wing Commander milieu has always been the resonance with real-world history. Call it the "Pearl Harbor" metaphor. (Bill Fortschen has carried this metaphor sometimes to extremes in the game novels.) The assumption has always been that when the Kilrathi attacked, Confed was big, peaceful, reasonably enlightened and more than a bit complacent - just like the US when the Japanese attacked Pearl. If the Kilrathi had immediately followed the Pilgrim thing, Confed would have been a bit more battered but a LOT more ready.

Why are they suposed to be ready? The finished a war that didn't require much resources or time. Confed was in practicly no danger from the Pilgrims because it was much larger and more advanced. None of the politicians would find it necessary to prepare for the TK war just because they just finished a little war like the Pilgrim war. You could almost think of that war as the Persian Gulf and than compare it to WWII

Good enough for you? It was neither an intentional nor an unintentional mistake. It was a well-thought-out change, and it's here to stay, no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

Nope, it's not good enough.

I'm not ignoring anything, but in reality the move or any movie based merchandise doesn't contradict that much with anything. If I cared about a small amount of mistakes, wheather small or large ones, I wouldn't read any of the novels. The WC4 novel contradicts in more places than the movie does.

The WC Movie is a different continuity.

Of course it isn't.

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited June 05, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

Chris Roberts is real. Chris McCubbin is someone who serves in the Confed navy. CM happened to be the author of the Confed Handbook for 2653/54, as well as the Confed Handbook for 2681 (which I like to call the Prophecy Official Guide )

Geez. Earthworm, you can be such a thick-headed idiot sometimes. Chris McCubbin IS QUITE REAL. Somehow I don't think LOAF wouldn't be receiving e-mails from a fictional character.

That's all I've got to say, since all the other stuff was HIS words. If you feel like arguing with a WRITER OF WC CANON, go ahead.

 

[Meson]

Chris McCubbin could of been someone's pen name. :/

------------------
Meson

Wing Commander is more than just a game. It is a lifestyle.

 

[Quarto]

Yeah, but what exactly would that change?

Hmm, I should probably apologise to Earthworm, since us Mods are supposed to set a good example and all. Still, it's been an irritating day, ok? My patience has been exhausted several hours ago.
And this cold weather just isn't helping. Come on, I'm in Brisbane and I'm on the verge of freezing, quite literally

. That's just not right.

 

[Earthworm]

Geez. Earthworm, you can be such a thick-headed idiot sometimes.

Oh, someone’s cranky.

Chris McCubbin IS QUITE REAL. Somehow I don't think LOAF wouldn't be receiving e-mails from a fictional character.[/QIOTE]He’s also quite not real.

That's all I've got to say, since all the other stuff was HIS words. If you feel like arguing with a WRITER OF WC CANON, go ahead.

I don’t have to argue with him about the CH, so I don’t have to argue about the quotes from him you posted.

Yeah, but what exactly would that change?

It would mean that I'm right.

Chris Roberts is Chris McCubbin. However, Chris McCubbin is also quite fictional. IIRC that was also the name of the pilot played by CR in the movie, that rescued Blair.




[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited June 06, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

It would mean that I'm right.

Chris Roberts is Chris McCubbin. However, Chris McCubbin is also quite fictional. IIRC that was also the name of the pilot played by CR in the movie, that rescued Blair.

Oh... well, then, I guess it's all a huge conspiracy. You see, this McCubbin person who doesn't exist works at the Incan Monkey God Studios. Why, they've even got a page about him - with a photo. And what's more, they've written up a resume about him. My, oh, my, they sure do go to a lot of trouble to keep Chris Roberts' involvement secret, don't they?

And if he says that the WC Canon he wrote doesn't fit in with everything else, I suspect he probably... just maybe... knows what he's talking about

.

 

[Earthworm]

Oh... well, then, I guess it's all a huge conspiracy. You see, this McCubbin person who doesn't exist works at the Incan Monkey God Studios. Why, they've even got a page about him - with a photo. And what's more, they've written up a resume about him. My, oh, my, they sure do go to a lot of trouble to keep Chris Roberts' involvement secret, don't they?

Oh, I just love playing with you. Of course Chris Roberts ain’t McCubbin. He wouldn’t be talking about the movie in that way.

And if he says that the WC Canon he wrote doesn't fit in with everything else, I suspect he probably... just maybe... knows what he's talking about

.

Except he didn’t say that it doesn’t fit. It’s all just some jiberish.

He was probably smoking something at the time.

 

[PopsiclePete]

It's really annoying to see the eternal arguments between Earthworm and Quarto.

Excuse me Earthworm for saying : why don't you shut up ? It's pathetic and disturbing. AND it turns threads into warzones. If you were anyone else, I think you would have been banned a long time ago.

[This message has been edited by PopsiclePete (edited June 06, 2000).]

 

[Dralthi5]

Wow, this is turning increasingly belligerant each day.

------------------
If I'm locked on, there's no such thing as evasive action!



[This message has been edited by Dralthi5 (edited June 06, 2000).]

 

[TC]

Naw, he'd be able to get away with it if he were me... But if he were me he would know that McCubbin is a real person.

TC

------------------
CAG of the Blacklance HQ
"Canadian and proud of it"-TC

 

[Earthworm]

Excuse me Earthworm for saying : why don't you shut up ? It's pathetic and disturbing. AND it turns threads into warzones. If you were anyone else, I think you would have been banned a long time ago.

Oh come on. A little argument never hurt anyone.

 

[Quarto]

Pete: Relax, he hasn't actually done anything bannable. Blatant ignorance isn't mentioned in the rules

.

But you're quite right... I really should stop arguing with Earthworm.

 

[Meson]

Q and E, don't stop. You are the entertainment for this 'board.

------------------
Meson

Wing Commander is more than just a game. It is a lifestyle.