WCS:CL Mod Updates (UPDATED 11-20-03)

@LOAF: wasn't there a TCS CVS-69 Armageddon? Isn't it a part of the Earth Defense Fleet after the battle of Earth?
 
According to my notes, the Armageddon was a Concordia-class ship built after the BoT. It certainly hasn't been established as 'CVS-69' anywhere in the WC canon.
 
Tolwyn (g) said:
only over my dead body!

Perhaps I should add this is going to be a Wing Commander game, not a let's-make-it-this-way-fan-project. You do not have to like the Behemoth, I may hate the color choice of BW ships (I would rather use green and not red color), but it is neither up to me nor to you, nor to anyone else.
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i think you took that from the wrong side,... what i ment was, there are so many shiptypes in wing commander, that you must not replace that "beamweaponship" from hw2 with the behemoth,... (even if you wanted to replace the antfighter ship with behemoth)
i know thats a part of the WC story, but its not one of the best.
so ich we can choose, kets take the better once in!
and with the idea of the guys here,... i wanted to say, they maybe have nice ideas what ship of wc3 else you can put in instead of behemoth.
 
Ok *rings school bell* time for a bit of teaching since the behemoth placement is getting a bit out of hand.

first off
to reasure those who are worried, BEAM weapons will not be in the WCS:CL main parts, if it wasn't fired ingame in the original games it wont be in the SP missions in CL, the only Beam weapons i know that will be in game will be in Prophecy(midways maingun, and the Kraken)

2nd off Psych i have no probs with anything posted, but when you become a jerk thats where i'd prefer ya to just shut up.

and last
ship placements
everyone keeps saying replace the battlecruiser with this, replace the destroyer with that.
that is pointless, nothing is being replaced, the Hiigaran race ingame is being left alone. We are disabling making the races from scratch, that means if a Tallahassee is a cruiser, ingame it wont be replacing a destroyer, but instead it will be a cruiser in the Capital ship build que.

thanks loaf for correcting me on the confederation class issue, i thought there were 6 but i didn't think i was right(i only knew for certain of 2 (Concordia & Confederation))
 
Bandit LOAF said:
A 'mark' (Fralthi II, Dralthi IV, etc.) in the Wing Commander universe seems to refer to an entirely new spaceframe).
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True. But that's confusing with the Dralthi, because they all look the same. :) A nice example is SM2, where the Mk II Dralthi has new guns, but it's on the same spaceframe (so it doesn't get a new number... right?)

Bandit LOAF said:
Yeah, Wing Commander shouldn't have any unique human factions. (To explain - the 'Pilgrims' are the Border Worlds with a different name. The little guys Confed subjigates. Heck, until Draft 2 of the movie Blair was a 'Border Worlder' instead of a 'Pilgrim'.)
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I suspect that the Border Wolder thing could work a lot better. I don’t think the Pilgrims were rejected just being a unique faction. The BW had that "underdog" thing people can easily relate to, and it wouldn't require a lot of explanations.

Most people didn’t understand, or care, about the whole Pilgrim subplot. It’s like, I think, the midichlorians on The Phantom Menance. The scene where Blair asks Paladin about Pilgrims is similar to the scene where Anakin asks Qui-Gon about midichlorians. In both cases, the “biological” explanation isn’t really interesting or satisfying.
 
Far be it from me to intrude on this conversation, just one observation I'd like to make. Psych...you're an asshole. Not the lovable Maniac kind but the real pretentious, pain-in-everybody's-neck, arrogant kind. When people post suggestions, its really not your responsibility to stomp on their suggestions and chew them up and spit them out.
 
I'm sorry you feel that way. However, it is my job as the WC Saga Technical Advisor to weed out and stomp anything that doesn't have a good foundation in WC canon. If I wasn't around WC Saga will just be another FaNbOy PrOjEcT, with a (quoted by Starsaint) "liberal" side of using fanboy l33t custom ships. Then it will no longer be a Wing Commander project, just some vague sci-fi project with the words "Wing Commander" half-assedly glued on in the last minute.

Here's one example, if I wasn't around, the WC Saga project would have included your ship model as the Raptor.
raptorside.jpg

Maybe you can fly it off Starsaint's custom ship the TCS Cortez, or maybe one of its sisterships, the TCS Pancho and the TCS Sauncho.

Pardon me if I have to clean house.
 
Hehehe :D

But to be honest, the FS2 mod for WC Saga will bring some new vessels online, all of them have a good foundation in WC canon. These aren't some newbie l33t designed ships, extensive research was made to find and justify their existance. Some were cut from the actual WC games themselves, others we have read about in the novels, but it will be a time in which we'll actually be able to see them in the flesh. Some of these models are coming online soon, when they are ready, we'll release a few screenshots of them, explain their purpose, and show information explaining why we made the ship like we did.
 
LMAO, I want to comment but Im not sure I know what to say. Thx for the entertainment!

*breaks out popcorn*

Really eager to see new ships... will you be releasing full design notes and potential alternatives with them or just a quick blurb?
 
*Looks at "Rapoter-thingy"*

Even I wouldn't see a Raptor in that...well it got near to it, but isn't a Raptor.
Looks more like a Centurion-Raptor mix....could be used for Privateer 3 ^_^

@Psych:
A little hint..there is some work waiting for you in the internal workshop...but I will wait with transfering it to Lynx and Starman till you give your ok.
 
psych said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. However, it is my job as the WC Saga Technical Advisor to weed out and stomp anything that doesn't have a good foundation in WC canon. If I wasn't around WC Saga will just be another FaNbOy PrOjEcT, with a (quoted by Starsaint) "liberal" side of using fanboy l33t custom ships. Then it will no longer be a Wing Commander project, just some vague sci-fi project with the words "Wing Commander" half-assedly glued on in the last minute.

Here's one example, if I wasn't around, the WC Saga project would have included your ship model as the Raptor.
raptorside.jpg

Maybe you can fly it off Starsaint's custom ship the TCS Cortez, or maybe one of its sisterships, the TCS Pancho and the TCS Sauncho.

Pardon me if I have to clean house.
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FIRST OFF your the BGS technical advisor I never signed your smart butt on to the CL, and never will, and yes i'm liberal on custom ships as long as they stay true to the WC lineage, i.e. the cortez its a battlecruiser, but lacks fighter carring ability and therefore is handicapped, so if you want to fly off it fine do it out a airlock.

the only custom ships that are to be used are to fill in the missing areas, like Frigates, Destroyers, and the lighter side of the cruiser area.

the term for WC i've always heard is a WW2 in space, well if you look at world war 2 there were dozens of ship class's, sizes, and types, same looks to be true with WC(I.E. Concordia Class Fleet Carriers, Ranger Class Carriers, Bengal Class Carriers, etc...)
so fanboy whiner whatever you are dont criticise something that you know nothing about.

and as for the supposed-raptor up top that aint a raptor, hell for CL i won't even consider using the original Sabre i made, decent FIRST model, but release quality, I think not.

so i'll put it this way, wanna trash talk someone, trashtalk your self.
and if that isn't clear enough, start turning this thread into a flaming post and I WILL delete your posts for a week, longer if needed.
 
StarSaint said:
and yes i'm liberal on custom ships as long as they stay true to the WC lineage, i.e. the cortez its a battlecruiser, but lacks fighter carring ability and therefore is handicapped, so if you want to fly off it fine do it out a airlock.
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If you're going to be "true to the WC lineage", you should probably know that most capital ships are fighter-carriers ... the only ships I can think of specifically that /don't/ carry them are the Gilgamesh and Caernaven, and specialty ships like the Behemoth ... hell, even the Sheffield has a small fighter complement, if I remember correctly. This is even truer during the Prophecy timeline (thanks Captain Johhny)..

the only custom ships that are to be used are to fill in the missing areas, like Frigates, Destroyers, and the lighter side of the cruiser area.
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Mm? We already have numerous examples of smaller ships ... Caernaven, Exeter, Gilgamesh and Sheffield to name a few. And there are all sorts of "missing" ship classes (Achilles-class destroyer, Manasses-class light cruisers, Valiant-class destroyers, Byrd-class recon ship).

Also, I think the Tallahassee is a light cruiser.

the term for WC i've always heard is a WW2 in space, well if you look at world war 2 there were dozens of ship class's, sizes, and types, same looks to be true with WC(I.E. Concordia Class Fleet Carriers, Ranger Class Carriers, Bengal Class Carriers, etc...)
so fanboy whiner whatever you are dont criticise something that you know nothing about.
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Those are all niche ships built to fit a specific purpose, though. The Concordia is a general mass-produced fleet carrier, the Bengal is a battle-carrier like ship used for spearheading assaults (Vega, K'Ththrak Mang), the Ranger an older ship used for rearguards and escort. If they don't fill a specific fleet role, it's probably better to drop it.
 
Bob McDob said:
Also, I think the Tallahassee is a light cruiser.
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Bob,
Consult your WC3 Official Guide (by Tuesday Frase, Chris McCubbin, and Melissa Mead). I will refer you to page 139, which covers the mission Hyperion 2 (in which the Sheffield, Coventry, and Ajax take on the enemy capships). This was written in Nav 3, in which the cruiser Ajax takes on the Fralthi II.

"c) Nav 3
-Defend friendly heavy cruiser against 2 Paktahn, enemy heavy cruiser
-Autopilot back to the Victory"
 
now granted i haven't included a lot from the books i.e. the tarawa, and other capital ships.

but where i'm curious are there any designs for these ships???
as i'd prefer to use as many canon ships as possible...
 
StarSaint said:
now granted i haven't included a lot from the books i.e. the tarawa, and other capital ships.

but where i'm curious are there any designs for these ships???
as i'd prefer to use as many canon ships as possible...
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Starsaint, I have spent almost the past year researching about vessels from the books. I have also managed to acquire lost concept art of ships cut from the WC games. I have also recruited the necessary talent to model and render them. Rest assured that I have covered ALL aspects of the canon spectrum in this.

As for frigates, the Caernaven is quite covered. They have been massed produced and have been around for ages. Same as destroyers, there's four types of Confed destroyers for god's sake. Yes, there is a light cruiser missing, and we just almost finished covering that aspect. Battlecruisers are virtually extinct from the WC fleets, with exception of battleship/supercruiser type of the Gettysburg-class (which Lynx has covered quite well). So considering that, the FS2 forum just accounted for all of your intended custom ships.

So what do you get to do? All you have to do . . . is trust me. Tolwyn certainly does (he was the one who recruited me for the job).
 
psych said:
Bob,
Consult your WC3 Official Guide (by Tuesday Frase, Chris McCubbin, and Melissa Mead). I will refer you to page 139, which covers the mission Hyperion 2 (in which the Sheffield, Coventry, and Ajax take on the enemy capships). This was written in Nav 3, in which the cruiser Ajax takes on the Fralthi II.

"c) Nav 3
-Defend friendly heavy cruiser against 2 Paktahn, enemy heavy cruiser
-Autopilot back to the Victory"
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Ah yeah, the cruiser with the Victory. I always thought that was the Tallahassee, though? That explains why the Aces call it the Ajax-class, then.
 
For a while, it was assumed the Ajax-class, but when False Colors came around in 1998-9, the Tallahassee-class cruiser was mentioned. Because this was the first confirmed cruiser name during WC3 times, it was switched to Tallahassee-class.
 
If you're going to be "true to the WC lineage", you should probably know that most capital ships are fighter-carriers ... the only ships I can think of specifically that /don't/ carry them are the Gilgamesh and Caernaven, and specialty ships like the Behemoth ... hell, even the Sheffield has a small fighter complement, if I remember correctly. This is even truer during the Prophecy timeline (thanks Captain Johhny)..
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The Gilgamesh-class carries fighters - 2nd Lt. Blair's first assignment was a 24-hour stint onboard the TCS Gilgamesh herself.

(... and then the Caernaven-class can be modified to carry fighters, as seen in the WCIV novel.)

As for frigates, the Caernaven is quite covered. They have been massed produced and have been around for ages. Same as destroyers, there's four types of Confed destroyers for god's sake. Yes, there is a light cruiser missing, and we just almost finished covering that aspect.
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I've MS Painted you a the layout of the TCS Manassas, based on the two shots we see of it on Wing Commander Academy:

manassas.png


I can try and clean it up a bit later.

(Spec-wise, it's 1/3rd the length of a Bengal... we see six torpedo tubes, a CSM launcher, a small fighter hanger and two single-mount turrets... I'd imagine there are more turrets on top and underneath, as well.)
 
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