WC Uprez Unity3d Doodle! (Heavy GIF Use, Mobile Users Beware!)

[Maslas]

Maslas: NAh, the only thing that's the same is the sprite picker code for the angled shader.

If I could change the time and go back to choose my game engine for FlatUniverse I wouldn't consider Unity for many reasons as it was proven later. I would definitely go for https://godotengine.org/.

Everything else is freshly written by me - the reason being that I've gotten a lot better at coding and knowing what's possible since I started WOSN in 2010, aaaaand Unity is MASIVELY better than it used to be.
tic.

I don't know how good are your programming skills. But I truly wish sometimes I was half the good artist that you are.

Nested prefabs, for instance, are just fantastic.

Totally true! The whole Unity community was waiting this stuff for many many years!

No matter what, Great Job!

 

[Pedro]

If I could change the time and go back to choose my game engine for FlatUniverse I wouldn't consider Unity for many reasons as it was proven later. I would definitely go for https://godotengine.org/.

Personally I tend to avoid it due to performance; with a background in tech I am the first person to get asked to get a near completed Unity project from 10fps to target framerate; that is not a job you want. Even if I did; my previous company lost a contract due to Unity performance issues (fortunately not the project I was on though), my current one made the game but despite being a throwback to 16-bit titles had a huge battle with optimization and has switched to Unreal (where things are going much more smoothly; but the internal design is pretty ancient).

Totally true! The whole Unity community was waiting this stuff for many many years!

I still don’t know how people even made games in unity until that; it was such a fundamental of game programming when I entered the industry and I’m a grey haired grumpy old timer these days.

Still both of those points are irrelevant here; painful as it is to recreate even GameCube era games in Unity there is no engine more user friendly.

That said I’ve always been afraid of doing standalone for legal reasons; will you require wc1 or are you, probably very sensibly, willing to take EAs 20 years of silence as a sign they won’t take issue with the project?

 

[Quarto]

If I could change the time and go back to choose my game engine for FlatUniverse I wouldn't consider Unity for many reasons as it was proven later. I would definitely go for https://godotengine.org/.

I have heard of Godot a couple of times from other game developers, but usually it's in the context of discussions about engines that are disdainfully dismissed because "nobody uses it". I know I can read their website and read all the snazzy bulletpoints and so on, but could you tell me more about why you in particular would use it? What makes it attractive from the perspective of your experiences with Flat Universe?

 

[Pedro]

One of the coders here is a fan, I seem to recall him saying one of Godot's strengths was much better response to bug reports than with any of the commercial engines.

 

[Maslas]

Howie, there is not any intention to change the subject of this thread I will just answer this question.

I have heard of Godot a couple of times from other game developers, but usually it's in the context of discussions about engines that are disdainfully dismissed because "nobody uses it". I know I can read their website and read all the snazzy bulletpoints and so on, but could you tell me more about why you in particular would use it? What makes it attractive from the perspective of your experiences with Flat Universe?

The reasons are many and believe it or not, it is not the performance. We have managed this issue on FU with much effort both on the coding and the Graphics side of the development but I can't get into much details now. (I am sorry Pedro)
I'll try to point out the basic dots. Pros:

• Everything is nested of course, it is fundamental for Godot
• It is opensource. It has already many features especially for platform games. If the developments stops, someone will continue it I feel comfortable about it.
• it accepts C++ libraries directly (In unity you can do that but you have to use FFI)
• It has a very lightweight editor which is cross-platform all the way, works everywhere
• It has embedded visual scripting which is perfect for the artists and for those who do scripting that is better explained visualy (e.g. visualise an AI behaviour on a particular event)
• From 3.1 it gives back the visual shader.
• The editor separates the 2d development and 3d development and mixes them nicely.
• The editor asset management is very simple and straightforward. It's not using metafiles or DBs to locate the files around. Very help full on versioning too.
• There isn't any fear behind your head that a policy might change and there is no free unity anymore. (this is for us making fan games of course)

One of the coders here is a fan, I seem to recall him saying one of Godot's strengths was much better response to bug reports than with any of the commercial engines.

• Tell him he is right!

There is a list with cons:

• I wouldn't use it for the creation of a simulator but I wouldn't use Unity either because they are not tools for that kind of development in mind.
• The unity forums and community is WAAAAAY bigger. For a new developer that is super helpful.
• The documentation keeps growing but it is not yet good enough. Again that is bad for a new developer.
• Since it is not commercially known yet, the knowledge of this engine is not an obvious asset on someones CV. If he is looking for a dev job.
• Again, since it is not commercially known yet, you won't find by far the amount of modules that you find for Unity. I wouldn't care about it on a fan game but If you work professionally and time is on the essence, that is a big problem.

Again sorry Howie!

 

[Pedro]

Well I don’t think there is a right answer, everyone has their own priorities. The team makeup is hugely important, as is the type of project.

I’d have been terrified if a project like FU on PC had performance concerns on any engine, but it’s the topmost concern for most of what I do as it’s rare I do anything PC. But I would be interested in what engine hacks you did if and when you can talk about them.

 

[Quarto]

Howie, there is not any intention to change the subject of this thread I will just answer this question.

Thanks! It's always good to hear this kind of stuff directly from people who have at least experimented with a given engine.

As for derailing the thread, I wouldn't worry about it in this case - every time Howie drops another update, all conversations stop as we look around to see where our jaws had dropped .

 

[Howard Day]

Shere Khan: Awww, thanks! You're right - that capacitor display...is just a linear bar. It's the same way it was in the original, but...yeah, could be improved, or at least the art could be made less obvious. If all else fails - I can code in sequential lights..but I'd like to be lazy.
Maslas: I'm a middling coder at best. I can handle about 85% of the shit I need to do on my own, with no issues, and most of that works properly the first time I run it. the remaining 15% I need to ask the internet, and for about 2-3% of the remainder I have no fucking clue. Luckily over 16 years of professional game dev, I've made some *very* smart friends, and they have no issue lernin the dumbass artist.
Pedro: I've done a ton of Unity games - and performance...Honestly? as long as you know what you're doing going in, it's never an issue. Just because unity lets you do something doesn't mean it's the fastest method in the long run. Most times with a little bit of forethought you can bypass most of the biggest issues. Things like using object pools and managers instead of slamming the GC() with data or running update threads on 1000s of objects where you can run one, and have it affect those 1000 objects... little tricks like that make things stupid fast from the get go!
Maslas: Excellent pros and cons for Godot engine - I'm sticking with Unity mostly because it's familiar, and I'm in this project to have fun...the fewer issues I have to slam my face into the more fun I'm going to have.
Quarto's right - I've got no issue with the discussion. I hope to have more to show you guys soon. Trying to work through the radar right now - I've already done the quadrant damage tracking/flashing which was fun.

 

[Pedro]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that point, It's easy to abuse any engine but I'm talking relative performance in ideal conditions and even verified by external optimization teams. Of course for most of the games out there it's not an issue, the type of games made in it speak for themselves.
This isn’t the place to deep dive into it but do feel free to pm me if you’re interested (and assuming you can stomach the rants of a tech programmer).

 

[Howard Day]

Pedro: no worries! I'm aware that Unity's not the all time fastest performer...I just tend to think most pitfalls can be sidestepped or avoided entirely. ...most. but I'm entirely biased by my own experiences...and quite often wrong.

Update! Radars working, along with damage flashing on the radar display. Got more stuffy7d I want to hit,debris, maybe the Mfds. But in the meanwhile I've been working on adding the first of two new ships I'd like to add. Very out of the box. Hope to have some things to show soon. http://www.hedfiles.net/WCR_GL/index.html

 

[Darkmage]

On Godot I'd add, that in about 30 seconds I had a VR compatible game scene running (on a PSVR headset no less) and in about 20 minutes I had a Concordia model, a cockpit that you could look around in VR, a flyable ship, and some space ship models imported and working.

 

[Pedro]

On Godot I'd add, that in about 30 seconds I had a VR compatible game scene running (on a PSVR headset no less) and in about 20 minutes I had a Concordia model, a cockpit that you could look around in VR, a flyable ship, and some space ship models imported and working.

That's really interesting; I hadn't realized it was so console friendly. We always like to stay on top of our options; I'll be sure we run a Godot test before the next project.
Howie - yeah I think its less of being wrong than it is a case of different priorities. For me it's less about avoiding performance biting me in the arse and more about being able to push it.

 

[Darkmage]

That's really interesting; I hadn't realized it was so console friendly. We always like to stay on top of our options; I'll be sure we run a Godot test before the next project.
Howie - yeah I think its less of being wrong than it is a case of different priorities. For me it's less about avoiding performance biting me in the arse and more about being able to push it.

That wasn't on a game console, that was a PSVR headset running on a Linux desktop PC (razer laptop with eGPU). Offically Godot supports Xbone, but hasn't got support for PS4 unless you go through one of the commercial Godot ports.

 

[FekLeyrTarg]

Update! Radars working, along with damage flashing on the radar display. Got more stuffy7d I want to hit,debris, maybe the Mfds. But in the meanwhile I've been working on adding the first of two new ships I'd like to add. Very out of the box. Hope to have some things to show soon. http://www.hedfiles.net/WCR_GL/index.htmlì

This is getting better every time. Everything is so awesome. You're quite fast on this.
There's a small but easy to fix type in the URL you provided: You only need to delete the "ì" after "html" and you're good to go.

By the way:
How many of the original file formats (sound, music, text, mission scripts etc) have been figured out already, so that they can be used in Unity?

(If you'd like to have some advice regarding Unity, you can always ask someone on the XWVM-team. We've made a lot of experience in the past few years while modernising X-Wing, including performace, bugs and making use of the original files.)

 

[Howard Day]

FekleyrTarg: I'm not reading or planning on reading any of the original WC files. My build doesn't require any of the original files, all the art is completely new, as is all the coding. Trying to stay clear of any CandDs as best I can.
Update! Made myself a Firekkan Valtar Fighter - Featuring twin Neutron cannons and the very first practical ITTS system - something which some folks at Confed Intel are *very* interested in.

Enjoy!

 

[Howard Day]

And some first glimpses of the chase camera and the Valtar in action!

 

[Pedro]

FekleyrTarg: I'm not reading or planning on reading any of the original WC files. My build doesn't require any of the original files, all the art is completely new, as is all the coding. Trying to stay clear of any CandDs as best I can

Not that I think EA would suddenly clamp down on wc mods but I’m with the x-wing team on this one; requiring the original assets and original game make a c&d much less likely than a standalone remake as you’re encouraging sales of the original rather than competing with it. If you check their mod page you’ll see their reasoning and I’d say it’s pretty sound.


But in either case it’s definitely important not to distribute any of the original files; as I recall that got a sim city remake shut down.

 

[Howard Day]

Well..since I don't intend to remake the entire WC1...the closest I could get is a framework for someone else to do so... and they could definitely go down that path. I'm sticking to something more Secret Missions 3 sorta thing.

Finally got the second weapon in! It's a Neutron Cannon. Here it is compared to the laser cannon:

I'm definitely adding the Mass Driver as well.... Thinking the Photon and Particle cannons as well.
Enjoy!

 

[FekLeyrTarg]

Very impressive.
And I think the framework for reimplementing the original files is a good idea.

Which only begs the question on how to handle the sound effects and the music. Perhabs a framework could be established to copy the Kilrathi Saga sound effects and music tracks into the Uprez directory as the formats dont need to be figured out anymore. With the PC Gamer Coverdisk Release, that shouldn't be a problem.

2000 PC Gamer Coverdisk Release - Wing Commander Encyclopedia

www.wcnews.com

 

[Pedro]

Well..since I don't intend to remake the entire WC1...the closest I could get is a framework for someone else to do so... and they could definitely go down that path. I'm sticking to something more Secret Missions 3 sorta thing.

As I say EA has never clamped down before; but if you were worried you could do a file check to confirm they own the original without actually using any of the assets.

What are you thinking of doing for the cutscenes? Will you go as far as modelling the characters and locations or leave that to individual mods?
As I recall the original had lip sync to text; I reckon it could be automated to match sound files which would be really neat.