WC:CD "Fan Input"
- Thread starter JasonRocZ
- Start date
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
I see, it looks like you and I were going in differnet directions with this one. What I had envisioned based on what you were trying to do, was something more of either a PT boat or a Blockade runner. A ship that could get in quick, sting the enemies with it's weapons, and get out fast before they could respond. Slightly faster then a corvette because it needs to be able to keep ahead of the fighters long enough to get back to it's fleet and able to dodge the big guns on enemy cap ships. Still light on armor and shields, but if you keep it slow, it's cannon fodder.
that tarpon looks great. but why is one of the guns blue instead of green? is it a plasma gun or something?
@ earwig: how about a "marine LC" with the SAR function? I dunno, do nephs eject?
I never liked the whole SAR concept. I thought bombers were much better suited for this job with tractor beams. At least they could defend themselves.
Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't "Feel" like a marine LC ship to me. Perhaps a new class of fighter/bomber with an experimental "blue" weapon?
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
Frosty:
Good point! The "Puffer" would be cannon fodder if it's too slow. So maybe some type of quick strike type of fighter that is not so heavily armored but goes for turrets/components on capships. That's doable.
The "Tarpon" I think should be a new type of Bomber perhaps a lil slower than the Manta but heavily armored...I actually just did a Blue Cannon in the middle because I just thought it would be something diff (Little Plasma maybe?)....Instead of all green ... I haven't really thought about armament yet.
And I really like AD's post on the "Earwig" being a Marine LC type of craft.....It's not a bad idea...But I don't dig the SAR idea at all.
Good point! The "Puffer" would be cannon fodder if it's too slow. So maybe some type of quick strike type of fighter that is not so heavily armored but goes for turrets/components on capships. That's doable.
The "Tarpon" I think should be a new type of Bomber perhaps a lil slower than the Manta but heavily armored...I actually just did a Blue Cannon in the middle because I just thought it would be something diff (Little Plasma maybe?)....Instead of all green ... I haven't really thought about armament yet.
And I really like AD's post on the "Earwig" being a Marine LC type of craft.....It's not a bad idea...But I don't dig the SAR idea at all.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Yeah, and I'm sure you could fit a medical crew onboard a bomber, too
.Seriously, we're in no position to question the SAR concept. During WC2-WC4, picking up ejected pilots appeared to be the job for bombers. If, post-war, we see Confed introduce SAR ships, we can only assume that this is a step forward (otherwise, why do it?). So, while it's unquestionably more fun to pick up pilots yourself than to escort an SAR shuttle, there must be a reason why it's actually preferable to have a dedicated SAR shuttle rather than relying exclusively on tractor-equipped bombers.
Of course, for the Nephilim, it's a different matter entirely. We know they pick up ejected pilots of ours... but we've had no indication so far that they actually eject by themeselves, so an SAR ship is kinda questionable.
frostytheplebe
Seventh Part of the Seal
Yeah, and I'm sure you could fit a medical crew onboard a bomber, too
You don't think a broadsword could?
Besides, i'd rather risk the pilots health rather then a medical crew and a pilot aboard an unarmed lightly armored ship, usually with one escort!
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Based on what we've seen, probably yes. But we don't know how this would affect its performance and range - remember, every crew member needs air. And remember, Broadswords are a pretty extreme example - most other bombers have less room onboard.
You sure do read a lot into what we've seen. What makes you think there would be only one escort out there? Just because we fly solo escorts in the game?
As for the pilot's health, it's not health as such that's being risked - it's his life. Now, if you send out a ship to rescue a pilot, you're taking a risk either way. You may be risking a shuttle and a medical crew - you may also be risking an expensive bomber and an experienced bomber pilot. You may be risking time, too - no ship can be in two places at once, and sending that bomber to the rescue may mean the survival of an enemy capital ship. There's all sorts of factors to consider. All of these risks, they must be weighed against the potential benefits. And if it seems likely that the ejected pilot will die on the way home due to insufficient care - the benefits just ain't there. Unless you're prepared to take the extra risk needed to actually save that pilot's life rather than merely bring back a corpse, what's the point of taking any risk in the first place?
Now, bear in mind, all of this is just "what ifs". We don't know what the situation is. It may be that a bomber is equipped with everything it needs to save an ejected pilot's life, insofar as this is possible in the field. It may be that a bomber has better chances of surviving the rescue attempt, too. We don't know. What we do know, is this - in WCP, where Confed is equipped with literally whatever it could desire, the choice has been made to use dedicated rescue shuttles rather than bombers. That's a very strong argument - we may not know the reasons, but apparently Confed believes it's better to have shuttles do this job.
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
Quarto,
I think the SAR concept is rather a strange topic to be honest, I mean yea We see bombers pick up pilots...We see SAR pickup pilots...We see capships pick up pilots, I mean in Prophecy maybe it was just a thought of one of the designers to make it sound 20th century... As in Gee Ya know the Seahawk helicopter picks up downed pilots when they eject, maybe we should have a craft similar? I mean it's one of those realms that we don't have much info on the development or even reasoning on so it's really hard to put a definitive answer too. IN WC3 we see a shuttle picks you up also, IN WC1/WC2 we see bombers, in WC4 I can't even remember, in Privateer if you have a turret you can pick up anything bwahaha...That's about it..What I do know is that Confed uses an SAR at the time of Secret Ops and Prophecy to locate and retrieve pilots
To anyone asking maybe the Earwig would be an Nephilim SAR craft...The answer is a definate NO. As far as having a Nephilim SAR craft....You'll more than likely never see one, They probably pick Confed pilots up and put em in a slop of goo and do whatever they do to them but it would seem probably any fighter that has some sort of tractor beam can do that... I.E: Devil Ray... For some reason I always think "Mars Attacks" when I think of what the Nephilim do to picked up/Abducted pilots ... But We know for a fact that you never see a Nephilim Eject and judging from that culture in general they'd rather die then be picked up etc.... so i'm positive they don't eject...
I think the SAR concept is rather a strange topic to be honest, I mean yea We see bombers pick up pilots...We see SAR pickup pilots...We see capships pick up pilots, I mean in Prophecy maybe it was just a thought of one of the designers to make it sound 20th century... As in Gee Ya know the Seahawk helicopter picks up downed pilots when they eject, maybe we should have a craft similar? I mean it's one of those realms that we don't have much info on the development or even reasoning on so it's really hard to put a definitive answer too. IN WC3 we see a shuttle picks you up also, IN WC1/WC2 we see bombers, in WC4 I can't even remember, in Privateer if you have a turret you can pick up anything bwahaha...That's about it..What I do know is that Confed uses an SAR at the time of Secret Ops and Prophecy to locate and retrieve pilots
To anyone asking maybe the Earwig would be an Nephilim SAR craft...The answer is a definate NO. As far as having a Nephilim SAR craft....You'll more than likely never see one, They probably pick Confed pilots up and put em in a slop of goo and do whatever they do to them but it would seem probably any fighter that has some sort of tractor beam can do that... I.E: Devil Ray... For some reason I always think "Mars Attacks" when I think of what the Nephilim do to picked up/Abducted pilots
... But We know for a fact that you never see a Nephilim Eject and judging from that culture in general they'd rather die then be picked up etc.... so i'm positive they don't eject...rapierdragon
Rear Admiral
Firekkan Fighter update
Well, after a holiday delay,
...followed by 2 sick days (right before new years)
...and then running out of my pain meds (jan.2) and going into detox (cause the doc be away on vacation and the stupid gov't set this rule where the pharmacy won't give me a refill without the doc's okaying it even though they know me and have a paper trail 2 years long of me getting this pain perscription every freaking month)...
Finally, finally, an update. The vertical wing-things (whatever they called) are done. They even be nice and pointy.
Now to start work on building up a body to attach them to.
Well, after a holiday delay,
...followed by 2 sick days (right before new years)
...and then running out of my pain meds (jan.2) and going into detox (cause the doc be away on vacation and the stupid gov't set this rule where the pharmacy won't give me a refill without the doc's okaying it even though they know me and have a paper trail 2 years long of me getting this pain perscription every freaking month)...
Finally, finally, an update. The vertical wing-things (whatever they called) are done. They even be nice and pointy.
Now to start work on building up a body to attach them to.
Attachments
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
While I'm working on the Earwig model/textures/...etc...
Is there something that you guys think that the mod should Include....Exclude....Pretty much anything that you think would be a good idea...
Please keep in mind this mod 2 years post Secret Ops, Pre Arena....And also no outlandish things.....I'm trying to keep with many things in StarSoldier while also having a certain nostalgia to pre games but (not too much).
But any good ideas would be appreciated as it may sway mission designing, Character Interaction, Wingman interaction, Audio, Visual, etc....
By all means compare other mods what you did like what you didn't etc...etc... This Earwig is taking me a lil longer than expected which gives great time to get in depth with other things....I check this post sometimes in excess of 10 times a day to see what you guys write so...please believe that your cries don't go unheard
Is there something that you guys think that the mod should Include....Exclude....Pretty much anything that you think would be a good idea...
Please keep in mind this mod 2 years post Secret Ops, Pre Arena....And also no outlandish things.....I'm trying to keep with many things in StarSoldier while also having a certain nostalgia to pre games but (not too much).
But any good ideas would be appreciated as it may sway mission designing, Character Interaction, Wingman interaction, Audio, Visual, etc....
By all means compare other mods what you did like what you didn't etc...etc... This Earwig is taking me a lil longer than expected which gives great time to get in depth with other things....I check this post sometimes in excess of 10 times a day to see what you guys write so...please believe that your cries don't go unheard
rapierdragon
Rear Admiral
big paper update
haven't done the canopy or the detailing, and the underside and tail-bit aren't there, but you can actually start to picture the Firekkan Fighter in its upcoming glory.
It's overhanging the keyboard tray cause the nose does curve downward... putting the nose-tip on the surface would mean having to find something to tilt/angle the wings back a bit (would have made for an odd pic).
FYI, the tarpon looks good.
FYI #2: I always found some aspects of Nephilim ships to be "wierd". Mainly the large, crystal-like gun-tips... for some reason I always want to think its some kind of wierd ship's engine/exhaust thing... instead of guns pointing fowards they look like wierd engine pipes with green or blue exhaust... as if the heat generated was "bad" for the organic ship, so the fuel ignition point had to be extended away to help reduce excess heat transfer from the ignition-point/afterburner or something.
..... Especially since their ships have such a texture/color that the cockpit tends to become invisible, which makes identifying front from rear all the harder. i.e. is that the cockpit or just some armored plating down the back, ship flying away from ya, with some wierd-color engine exhaust? Maybe thier ships produce their own gas? (bad old joke somewhat intended... each ship lights its f@rt on fire ;p )
Some of their ships look like you could stick the guns on backwards and the ship would still "look right" in terms of what end is front and what end is the rear. Its like the Borg Cube ... rotate the entire thing 90 or 180 degrees in any direction and it looks the same... nothing to really identify "this is the front" or "this side up" or the like.
A lot like the Nephilim Kracken dreadnought... or whatever that large octagonal-tube-like ship was... no real top or bottom or left or right... almost impossible to tell front from back (other than the fact it was like one huge tube). Looked like they modeled it after a short, wide, green plant vase or something.
haven't done the canopy or the detailing, and the underside and tail-bit aren't there, but you can actually start to picture the Firekkan Fighter in its upcoming glory.
It's overhanging the keyboard tray cause the nose does curve downward... putting the nose-tip on the surface would mean having to find something to tilt/angle the wings back a bit (would have made for an odd pic).
FYI, the tarpon looks good.
FYI #2: I always found some aspects of Nephilim ships to be "wierd". Mainly the large, crystal-like gun-tips... for some reason I always want to think its some kind of wierd ship's engine/exhaust thing... instead of guns pointing fowards they look like wierd engine pipes with green or blue exhaust... as if the heat generated was "bad" for the organic ship, so the fuel ignition point had to be extended away to help reduce excess heat transfer from the ignition-point/afterburner or something.
..... Especially since their ships have such a texture/color that the cockpit tends to become invisible, which makes identifying front from rear all the harder. i.e. is that the cockpit or just some armored plating down the back, ship flying away from ya, with some wierd-color engine exhaust? Maybe thier ships produce their own gas? (bad old joke somewhat intended... each ship lights its f@rt on fire ;p )
Some of their ships look like you could stick the guns on backwards and the ship would still "look right" in terms of what end is front and what end is the rear. Its like the Borg Cube ... rotate the entire thing 90 or 180 degrees in any direction and it looks the same... nothing to really identify "this is the front" or "this side up" or the like.
A lot like the Nephilim Kracken dreadnought... or whatever that large octagonal-tube-like ship was... no real top or bottom or left or right... almost impossible to tell front from back (other than the fact it was like one huge tube). Looked like they modeled it after a short, wide, green plant vase or something.
Attachments
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
No...The cockpit is in the middle...The Guns are the green and the blue "arms" (so to speak) protruding from the front of the ship....Please see other original Nephilim ship designs for clarity.
rapierdragon
Rear Admiral
I know... just trying to describe how my awkward-working mind is seeing it... and try to keep in mind some of those outlandish old 50's and 60's and 70's "space ships" sometimes looked (odd body, usually with rocket-like things attached to it either directly or through small connecting wings/arms/beams/etc, often attached at wierd angles or the like.
Sometimes you can find such art on old sci-fi novels, or a few of the ships in an old game like Renegade - Jacob's Star. Ya know? These wierd, bizarrely-thin ships that by modern standards look kind of like someone took like a few straws, one of those angle-compass things (for drawing circles), broken bits of a coffee mug, an egg-beater, a metal hinge, and super-glued them together and used the resulting "art" as the basis for a ship design (except that thankfully they put on some labeling and a visible cockpit and fire is coming out the engines, so that it suddenly looks like a "wierd alien ship" rather than a bunch of junk glued together).
Sometimes you can find such art on old sci-fi novels, or a few of the ships in an old game like Renegade - Jacob's Star. Ya know? These wierd, bizarrely-thin ships that by modern standards look kind of like someone took like a few straws, one of those angle-compass things (for drawing circles), broken bits of a coffee mug, an egg-beater, a metal hinge, and super-glued them together and used the resulting "art" as the basis for a ship design (except that thankfully they put on some labeling and a visible cockpit and fire is coming out the engines, so that it suddenly looks like a "wierd alien ship" rather than a bunch of junk glued together).
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
You mentioned getting all the models done before New Years. Are you pretty much there? Right now it still seems like the project is currently a collection of models rather than a mod or a game. Is there a story or a script far along (rather than just a premise)? Are there missions or mission plans? You've demonstrated that you can make ships, but is there a plan to do all the rest?
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
Good Questions Chris and I'm going to answer each of them individually
As of right now....I am pretty much there (As far as doing the models)...There is a few that still need to be implemented into the Vision Engine mainly just the capital ships..All the fighters are in the Vision engine and are complete at the moment, The ship audio is all set also, gun sounds, afterburn,etc.... the capitalships that need to be implemented are as follows...The Corel Sea, The Revenge, The Warrax (Inserted as corvette), Relaxath, Nephilim Palmeri Warship (I haven't shown this one) Earwig (Has to be finished and implemented)......Each and every fighter has been imported into the vision engine that you have seen me post up in the forums...
As I've been working on the models, I've also been working on the story, For roughly the past month, The story and Character development for ALL the characters as mentioned earlier on this thread is (For the most part) I'd say about 90% finished, I'd really like for a few people to see it once I really have a good feeling that it is in fruition, so as not to conflict with any facts, etc...
What does need to be started is Character Comm. I need to recruit a few voices for certain roles. And also how to really get some Kilrathi/Nephilim ones....I am wondering how the Firekkans even sound like....I'm thinking maybe they actually sound human like (That would sound rather fairy tale-ish but) Almost like how the old Kings Quest Series would have certain characters sound human...I still have to design Audio Lines for people to say so it's easy to record...I'm currently on Mission 10 (10 good path, 10 bad path) of a 20+ Mission Campaign as far as the design concept is concerned. I've been designing the missions so far as fail and success but have not touched any "Vision engine Mission Script" as of yet. But have read up on them and have been researching actually how Standoff scripts the missions that they have designed (Thank you Standoff)!
As stated above there is plans on doing the missions.... Thank you for your help and There is definitely plans to do all the rest ....It's just been a very slooooooow process bwahaha
As of right now....I am pretty much there (As far as doing the models)...There is a few that still need to be implemented into the Vision Engine mainly just the capital ships..All the fighters are in the Vision engine and are complete at the moment, The ship audio is all set also, gun sounds, afterburn,etc.... the capitalships that need to be implemented are as follows...The Corel Sea, The Revenge, The Warrax (Inserted as corvette), Relaxath, Nephilim Palmeri Warship (I haven't shown this one) Earwig (Has to be finished and implemented)......Each and every fighter has been imported into the vision engine that you have seen me post up in the forums...
As I've been working on the models, I've also been working on the story, For roughly the past month, The story and Character development for ALL the characters as mentioned earlier on this thread is (For the most part) I'd say about 90% finished, I'd really like for a few people to see it once I really have a good feeling that it is in fruition, so as not to conflict with any facts, etc...
What does need to be started is Character Comm. I need to recruit a few voices for certain roles. And also how to really get some Kilrathi/Nephilim ones....I am wondering how the Firekkans even sound like....I'm thinking maybe they actually sound human like (That would sound rather fairy tale-ish but) Almost like how the old Kings Quest Series would have certain characters sound human...I still have to design Audio Lines for people to say so it's easy to record...I'm currently on Mission 10 (10 good path, 10 bad path) of a 20+ Mission Campaign as far as the design concept is concerned. I've been designing the missions so far as fail and success but have not touched any "Vision engine Mission Script" as of yet. But have read up on them and have been researching actually how Standoff scripts the missions that they have designed (Thank you Standoff)!
As stated above there is plans on doing the missions.... Thank you for your help and There is definitely plans to do all the rest
....It's just been a very slooooooow process bwahaha
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Take this advice from someone who's been there and had plenty of opportunities to make mistakes (and even learn from them!). You absolutely do not need voice actors. You do not want voice actors.
Voice actors are an unnecessary distraction. Instead of focussing on getting the job done, you focus on finding the right voice actors... but then, you only have half the scripts available for them, because you're not done with the design. So, you get half your lines recorded, and then, a year later, you're finally ready to record the rest - only, the voice actors who need to come back to continue their roles have gone missing! Suddenly, you find yourself rewriting scenes, writing characters out of the story, writing new characters into the story, and so on, and so on. And when you decide to make some small changes in the first part of the game, the one you already have voiceovers for... you realise that you can't make the change, because you won't be able to record the new lines.
You will need voiceovers right before the release of the game. If you are planning on having video cutscenes with talking heads, or any similar pre-rendered stuff, you'll need voiceovers a little earlier - but such cutscenes should be left to the end of the project, for the reasons described above.
At the moment, all you need is one voice actor, and you can even handle that job yourself - just record all the roles using one voice, so that you can have placeholder voices in the game (such placeholders are useful, because it's important to know how long a given line is likely to last). Do that - but do not, absolutely do not start looking for voice actors. It's one of the worst mistakes you can make - and I should know, I've made it twice!
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
You have some very good points...I've been finding myself changing things after the fact....and it has been nerve racking for sure.....And I don't want to waste anymore time then I already have...I'll just do my own voice (For now)....and leave some of those cutscenes for the end of the project...Right now I'm focused on getting the models, storyline, and finally getting a start on missions.
rapierdragon
Rear Admiral
good program alts for voice actors
You could use one or more TTS engines to pre-create the needed audio voices from text.
A good alternate to voice actors is by using a variation of the Microsoft Speech thing... there's a program called "coolspeech" (shareware, 14-day unlimited trial, http://www.bytecool.com/voices.htm) which uses the MS Speech engine to read text aloud (either from notepad, any text editor, or even the clipboard).
Another one is Dspeech (free... http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/) ... its slightly better cause you can use control tabs so that it'll switch between voices as it reads.
Espeak (http://espeak.sourceforge.net/) is a bit harder to use but also offers a far wider set of vocal controls, and while its command-line usage, it does (on the download page for espeak) have a link for a GUI/graphic version called EspeakEDIT which adds phoneme control.
Cepstral (not free... website demo available at http://www.cepstral.com/demos/)
... you can even set the program to read specific words differently (by breaking down the words by using dashes or apostrophies).
So Prince Thrakhath could have his name sound like so... Thrack-hath, Track'hith, Trac'kath, etc...
You could use one or more TTS engines to pre-create the needed audio voices from text.
A good alternate to voice actors is by using a variation of the Microsoft Speech thing... there's a program called "coolspeech" (shareware, 14-day unlimited trial, http://www.bytecool.com/voices.htm) which uses the MS Speech engine to read text aloud (either from notepad, any text editor, or even the clipboard).
Another one is Dspeech (free... http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/) ... its slightly better cause you can use control tabs so that it'll switch between voices as it reads.
Espeak (http://espeak.sourceforge.net/) is a bit harder to use but also offers a far wider set of vocal controls, and while its command-line usage, it does (on the download page for espeak) have a link for a GUI/graphic version called EspeakEDIT which adds phoneme control.
Cepstral (not free... website demo available at http://www.cepstral.com/demos/)
... you can even set the program to read specific words differently (by breaking down the words by using dashes or apostrophies).
So Prince Thrakhath could have his name sound like so... Thrack-hath, Track'hith, Trac'kath, etc...
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
Well one thing I do want to do is really good audio... Kilrathi sounding like Kilrathi Nephilim Sounding like Nephilim etc..etc... I just have to find a good program to be able to edit already formed speech. I'll check out some of these programs... and let you know but like Quarto said I'm fairly far off from doing speech at the moment.