The Movie

[Kain]

in the movie bossman is dead and was lovers with angel,okay maybe he surrived and came back but why treat her as just a friend in WC1

that brings me too....

it looks to me that paladin n, angel first met mav in WC1 with the "you must be maverick welcome to the T'sC" type greeting

and...

two tigers claw?? blair didnt recognize the name :0

one of the very worst! how the HFIL did the entire kilrathi and terran fleets change in only months!?? i didnt see iceman say "were getting the upgraded rapiers" in WC1

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Kain
in the movie bossman is dead and was lovers with angel,okay maybe he surrived and came back but why treat her as just a friend in WC1

Like I said, the last thing this board needs is another argument about the movie... But since you come up with some stupid (no offense to you) and unfortunetly commong points...

First, where in the movie did you hear that Angel and Bossman are lovers? No where. They got close as the movie states it, because they were close friends, but they were not lovers, as the movie novel clearly explains.

Second, no there was no way for Bossman to survive. It's just one of the things that doesn't fit in. But hey you don't disregard the WC4 novel just because the Vesuvius is destroyed in Speradon with Seether dying right next to it, do you?

it looks to me that paladin n, angel first met mav in WC1 with the "you must be maverick welcome to the T'sC" type greeting

Oh, come on. That's such a lame point...

two tigers claw?? blair didnt recognize the name :0

What?

how the HFIL did the entire kilrathi and terran fleets change in only months!??

They didn't, it's that simple. But if you want to get into that crap... Why don't you complain that Blair looks different in WC2 than he did in WC1, and then again in WC3/WC4/Prophecy? Why don't you complain about the Kilrathi looking different in every game? Why don't you complain about the Fralthi from WC3/Prophecy looking completly different than the WC1 Fralthi? Why don't you complain about the entire design of Kilrathi capships in WC1/WC2 where the ships are rouned and symethrical while in WC3 there are tons of ships with sharp edges, straight lines, and anything but symetrical? Why does the Claw from the Academy TV series look different than the WC1 Claw? Why does the Academy Broadsowrd and Scimitar look different than their WC1/WC2 counterparts?

Your point, how can we say it, is pointless... If you're going to argue about the ships looking different in the movie, than basicly you could complain about ANY part of the universe, weather it's one of the games or novels or whatever.

i didnt see iceman say "were getting the upgraded rapiers" in WC1

Since that sentence isn't totaly clear to me, I'll just assume that your talking about the differences between the Rapiers...

Of course as it was said a thousand times, the Rapier from the movie is a totaly different ship... it was said that the WC1 Rapier isn't just an upgraded version, but a totaly different frame...



[Edited by Earthworm on 12-26-2000 at 02:40]

 

[Meson]

In a war, technology evolves fast. There's a great quote about this in the Propecy Players Guide, but I'm too lazy to find it.

 

[Penguin]

Earthworm: The problem with the movie is that it doesn't explain as much as some might've hoped. Let's be honest about it - if you go see a movie, you shouldn't have to then pick up the novelization to catch up on the stuff that wasn't in the film. Finally when it comes to continuity there are problems. Bossman dies in WC1. Why did CR make it that he's already dead in the WCM? Why not just have another pilot get killed? That avoids the clash. And the whole example isn't so terribly important to the storyline. CR could've easily done it that way without messing anything up.

 

[Earthworm]

No, it doesn't explain a lot of stuff, and that's the problem. The story is thin, that's a problem. You shouldn't have to pick up the novelization to know what some things are about, and that's a problem.

But by itself the movie doesn't contradict with that many things. Certainly not more than some other things, which is why I'm so amazed that so many people say that it's a totaly different universe.

I don't mind it if someone doesn't like the movie, but if you're nitpicking and magnifying things that are really unimportant, than I'll certainly try to prove you're wrong.

Bossman dies in WC1. Why did CR make it that he's already dead in the WCM? Why not just have another pilot get killed? That avoids the clash.

I don't know. Maybe CR didn't belive that he'd be able to make a sequel, so he decided to sort of mesh WC1 and SM1 together... I really don't know...

And the whole example isn't so terribly important to the storyline.

Exactly, so I don't understand why so many people blow the whole thing out of proportions.

CR could've easily done it that way without messing anything up.

Yes, he could have and he probably should have. It would sure as hell save me a lot of posting time.

 

[Kain]

Originally posted by Earthworm

They didn't, it's that simple. But if you want to get into that crap... Why don't you complain that Blair looks different in WC2 than he did in WC1, and then again in WC3/WC4/Prophecy? Why don't you complain about the Kilrathi looking different in every game? Why don't you complain about the Fralthi from WC3/Prophecy looking completly different than the WC1 Fralthi? Why don't you complain about the entire design of Kilrathi capships in WC1/WC2 where the ships are rouned and symethrical while in WC3 there are tons of ships with sharp edges, straight lines, and anything but symetrical? Why does the Claw from the Academy TV series look different than the WC1 Claw? Why does the Academy Broadsowrd and Scimitar look different than their WC1/WC2 counterparts?
[/B]

1)game characters change and WC2 had one game behind it..
2)don't know here
3)all the kilrathi were the same race,it's just like how many humans look different.
4)About 20 years after wc3/wc4 are..peoples taste changes
5)the WCATV is serparate and was pretty bad
6)see 5#

 

[Earthworm]

Why do you have to push the damn subject?

***1)game characters change and WC2 had one game behind it..***

What? That makes absolutely no sense...


****2)don't know here ****

To which thing are you replying here?

***3)all the kilrathi were the same race,it's just like how many humans look different.***

Than how come Hobbes looks like a Tiger in WC2, while he looks completly different in WC3? Face it, your statement about ships looking different is flawed and makes no sense...

***4)About 20 years after wc3/wc4 are..peoples taste changes***

WTF? What are you talking about?

***5)the WCATV is serparate and was pretty bad***

I don't give a damn weather you liked it or not... it wasn't seperate, it's in the same universe just like the movie.

And please, if you really need to argue some more than just e-mail me instead of posting here...

 

[Kain]

"What? That makes absolutely no sense..."
really i guess the WC team were pretty dumb jk i mean look mario has changed alot,even "real" characters change.theres a ten year gap in WC2.



"To which thing are you replying here?"
blair looking diffrent in WC3/4/P


"Than how come Hobbes looks like a Tiger in WC2, while he looks completly different in WC3?"

a tigerlike costume was prob more costly and might have looked silly in live action

"Face it, your statement about ships looking different is flawed and makes no sense.."
nope


"WTF? What are you talking about?"
what else?? your comment about cat ships being diffrent in WC3 and after...


"I don't give a damn weather you liked it or not... it wasn't seperate, it's in the same universe just like the movie"

kay,let's leave WCATV out of this since our opinons of it are very different

" please, if you really need to argue some more than just e-mail me instead of posting here..."

kay,i don't take it as an arguement.
[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Quarto]

EW, you're not very good with promises, are you?

 

[Earthworm]

Quarto, no I'm not. That's why I'm not going to promise anything ever again. I just thought Kain would shut up after I promised that I would.<G>

Originally posted by Kain
i mean look mario has changed alot,even "real" characters change.theres a ten year gap in WC2.

That doesn't mean that Blair doesn't look completly different... (And it's more like 8 years between SM2 and WC2)

a tigerlike costume was prob more costly and might have looked silly in live action

So they changed it. Just like making WC1 ships would be too costly for the small budge of the movie, as well as the cartoonish desing of WC1 ships would most likelly look *silly*...

So what's your problem.

***nope ***

And what have you got to back up this single word?


***what else?? your comment about cat ships being diffrent in WC3 and after...***

So what if there's 13 years between WC1:SM2 and WC3, and 2 years between SM2 and WC3? How could the desing philosophy completly change during the two years between Special Operations 2 and WC3?

***kay,let's leave WCATV out of this since our opinons of it are very different***

So we might as well leave the movie out of it, since we can't agree about it?

 

[Kain]

"Just like making WC1 ships would be too costly for the small budge of the movie"

didnt you just say that the rapiers of WC1 and the movie totally different ships?

"And what have you got to back up this single word?"

the torps fireing system was diffrent
the interiors were very diffrent
shields
weapons too

"How could the desing philosophy completly change during the two years between Special Operations 2 and WC3?"

hmmmmm the WC3 kilrathi capships could have already been in the home systems in SO2-Fleet Action,so ehhh forget this..

theres no offical WC timeline at all.(only the dates)

"So we might as well leave the movie out of it, since we can't agree about it?"

well i liked the movie..just didnt include it with the same timeline of most of the novels and main games...... :|

 

[Earthworm]

***didnt you just say that the rapiers of WC1 and the movie totally different ships? ***

Yes, because it is. While most other ships are either new, or just different designs of the ships we already had in the games.

***the torps fireing system was diffrent ***

Maybe in your little universe, but not in the WC movie...

***the interiors were very diffrent ***

Much more realistic than what we saw in any of the WC games...

***shields
weapons too ***

What about them? When you're trying to prove your point to someone you have to explain what you're saying. One or two words won't do. If you mean that they were different, well, you're just wrong... again...

***hmmmmm the WC3 kilrathi capships could have already been in the home systems in SO2-Fleet Action,so ehhh forget this.. ***

Yes, they could have been, and some of them indeed were. So why did the Kilrathi desing philosophy change completly?

***theres no offical WC timeline at all.(only the dates)***

And if you put the dates together you get a timeline...

***well i liked the movie..just didnt include it with the same timeline of most of the novels and main games......
***

Except that you haven't gave a single valid reason for it to be excluded from the timeline of the novels and games...

TPOF contradicts more with WC4 than the movie does with the rest of the universe, yet you consider it a part of the WC universe, why is that?

 

[Terrorizer]

Sure, you can prove that all the small details and dates are insignificant, as you have with Kain. That's not what really bothers me. The movie universe just doesn't feel right. I may not know all the really trivial aspects of the wc universe, but I do know about it. I've been playing all the games since the first one came out , and I've read all the books as well, and I even bought a bunch of the cards if that's anything to you. The movie just brings about a different idea of the universe and the war, totally different from the games and books. The games and game books stayed consistent with the characters personalities and the feeling of the war.

By your reasoning, we could say that Starlancer fits in with the Wc Universe. It "adresses things that haven't been explained anywhere else."

And the reason the pilgrims are so significant is not only because it changes everything about blair, it's because it introduces a whole war that occurred right before the war with the Kilrathi. William Forschten(SP?) wrote the Kilrathi attack on Mcaulf(SP? I don't want to get out my books) in Action Stations as a metaphor with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. In order for this to work, the humans had to have been at peace for some time. They weren't ready for the attack because they had lived in relative peace for centuries.

[Edited by Terrorizer on 12-26-2000 at 15:53]

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Terrorizer
The movie just brings about a different idea of the universe and the war, totally different from the games and books.

How come? For me it just gives a different look at the war. A look from a different perspective, where people die every day, where the ships are held together by spit and good intentions, and where there aren't any huge areas on the ships. Every ship is made as small as possible while holding as much as possible inside.

That's one of the areas were games were always unreaslistic. Even the Intrepid, a converted destroyer with serious damage didn't seem any less beautifull from the inside than the Lexington.


***By your reasoning, we could say that Starlancer fits in with the Wc Universe. It "adresses things that haven't been explained anywhere else."****

And how would a game that has absolutelly nothing to do with WC fit witht the universe, by my reasoning?

***And the reason the pilgrims are so significant is not only because it changes everything about blair,***

They don't change anything about Blair. That's the point. Being a Pilgrim doesn't mean you have some super powers and know the location of each jump point and where it leads, and crap like that.

*** it's because it introduces a whole war that occurred right before the war with the Kilrathi. William Forschten(SP?) wrote the Kilrathi attack on Mcaulf(SP? I don't want to get out my books) in Action Stations as a metaphor with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. In order for this to work, the humans had to have been at peace for some time. They weren't ready for the attack because they had lived in relative peace for centuries.***

And the Pilgrim war doesn't do anything to disproove that, because that war was insignificant. The Pilgrims were never a real threat to the Confederation, and they never hoped to do anything but be completly seperate from Confed. The Pilgrim war officiall ended in 2635, few months after the start of the Kilrathi war, but for few months/years, there were only small fights between diminishing Pilgrim forcess and the Confederation that could bring in more and more ships evry day.

Confed wasn't ready for the attack at McAuliffe, because the Confed government belive the Kilrathi to be a *paper dragon* that would fold if the Confederation ever fully mobilized it's fleet. And that was true, the Kilrathi fleet was much smaller then Confed. And the Pilgrim war that was nearing end at that time didn't do anything but make the government belive that they could handle a war with a small Empire, with ease.

[Edited by Earthworm on 12-26-2000 at 16:32]

 

[Kain]

***the torps fireing system was diffrent ***

"Maybe in your little universe, but not in the WC movie..."

.......?

***the interiors were very diffrent ***

"Much more realistic than what we saw in any of the WC games..."

well if WC1 was like in 2154 i'd agree with you

***shields
weapons too ***

"What about them? When you're trying to prove your point to someone you have to explain what you're saying. One or two words won't do. If you mean that they were different, well, you're just wrong... again..."

did they even have shields??

***hmmmmm the WC3 kilrathi capships could have already been in the home systems in SO2-Fleet Action,so ehhh forget this.. ***

"So why did the Kilrathi desing philosophy change completly?"

look at our computers,tanks,cars,planes.


***theres no offical WC timeline at all.(only the dates)***

"And if you put the dates together you get a timeline..."

yes and you can put them together in any way for whatever reasons you have.

***well i liked the movie..just didnt include it with the same timeline of most of the novels and main games......
***

"Except that you haven't gave a single valid reason for it to be excluded from the timeline of the novels and games..."

the bossman thing!!

"TPOF contradicts more with WC4 than the movie does with the rest of the universe, yet you consider it a part of the WC universe, why is that?"

acutally the TPOF book is not in my "little universe"





[Edited by Kain on 12-26-2000 at 20:11]

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Kain
well if WC1 was like in 2154 i'd agree with you

Wha? WTF are you talking about...

did they even have shields??

If you didn't see the shields in the movie, than obviously me replying to your posts has been more of a waste of time than I though. Of course they had shields, you'd have to be blind not to see them...

look at our computers,tanks,cars,planes.

What's your point? Do our cars look much different than they did, lets say 40 years ago? Yes and no. Cars that look like ancient pieces of crap are still produced.

What about the computers? The technology keeps improving, allowing them to get smaller since the first giant comps, but the computers from 10 years ago look very similar to the ones we have today.

Meanwhile, the Kilrathi would have to completly change the way they design ships.

the bossman thing!!

That's not a valid reason. Every novel has something that contradicts with something else, and so do most of the games, so a single pilot being dead, one that isn't that important in the universe as a whole, isn't a valid reason to exclude the entire movie from the universe.

acutally the TPOF book is not in my "little universe"

Ah, so while some novels are, others are not? That makes sense, you choose by your self what's in the universe and what's not.....




[Edited by Kain on 12-26-2000 at 20:11] [/B]

 

[Kain]

"WTF are you talking about..."
by 2654 they wouldnt have crampassed ships..dummie




"If you didn't see the shields in the movie, than obviously me replying to your posts has been more of a waste of time than I though. Of course they had shields, you'd have to be blind not to see them..."

guess i need too rent it a 3rd Time!(if only there was an uncut DVD)

"look at our computers,tanks,cars,planes. What's your point? Do our cars look much different than they did, lets say 40 years ago? Yes and no. Cars that look like ancient pieces of crap are still produced.

What about the computers? The technology keeps improving, allowing them to get smaller since the first giant comps, but the computers from 10 years ago look very similar to the ones we have today.

Meanwhile, the Kilrathi would have to completly change the way they design ships."

you know it's just the outside that's really diffrent..

"

the bossman thing!!

That's not a valid reason. Every novel has something that contradicts with something else, and so do most of the games, so a single pilot being dead, one that isn't that important in the universe as a whole, isn't a valid reason to exclude the entire movie from the universe."

but the story looks really stupid like that and would turn off new fans...


"

acutally the TPOF book is not in my "little universe"

Ah, so while some novels are, others are not? That makes sense, you choose by your self what's in the universe and what's not....."

you're saying someones own choice is an alien concept!? :0 that's not right.....

 

[Detaiza]

Originally posted by Kain



"WTF are you talking about..."
by 2654 they wouldnt have crampassed ships..dummie

Doesn't that depend on the rescources available to them?
I mean, think about it. If Space travel's going to ve the next big thing, you've got a problem.
The universe is infinite. Or damn near close.
Rescources are not.

It therefore follows that in order to conserve rescources, the needless use of materials must be kept to a minimum.
Besides newly fused materials, the amount of steel on a planet isn't getting any bigger. And if you've got countless wars as well, half of what you have is gonna be littering the far reaches of space. So yes, they WOULD be 'crampassed', if only to ensure that they don't run out of metals halfway through construction of a vessel that is absolutly needed to retreive iron and steel from other planets so that you can get some kind of economy going again.

eeekk. Did i really write all that??

addition : Don't call people dummies. dummies are funny rubber things that they put in cars before ramming them into vertical walls at obscene speeds. If you wanna insult someone, call them a hedgehog, maggot, worm, worthless sewer creature, or tadpole. But not a dummy.


[Edited by Detaiza on 12-26-2000 at 23:24]

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Kain
by 2654 they wouldnt have crampassed ships..dummie

Dummie? That's cute...

WTH are you talking about? In the games, the Intrepid, or Victory, are as large inside as a cruise line, while they should be little cramped ships.

Think about what you're saying. Why would a military in 600 years waste it's resources? They'd cramp the ships as much as possible because they have to.

you know it's just the outside that's really diffrent..

Yes, and it shouldn't be that different...

but the story looks really stupid like that and would turn off new fans...

I know many people that got interested in the universe because of the movie, some of them had never even heard of the games or novels.

You're just nitpicking without reason, turning little things into some huge errors...

you're saying someones own choice is an alien concept!? :0 that's not right.....

I'm saying that you don't have the right to choose what belongs in the universe and what doesn't... Even if OSI made a game as bad as the ST5 movie, it would still be a part of the universe, weather the fans liked it or not.

In other words, the fans don't choose what's canon, because then the whole universe would be fucked up, and any discusion of it, impossible...

 

[Kain]

"Think about what you're saying. Why would a military in 600 years waste it's resources? They'd cramp the ships as much as possible because they have to"

nah

"you know it's just the outside that's really diffrentYes, and it shouldn't be that different..."

yep.



"You're just nitpicking without reason, turning little things into some huge errors..."

ummmm lighten up


"In other words, the fans don't choose what's canon, because then the whole universe would be fucked up, and any discusion of it, impossible..."

nope,i just ignore ignore anything that contradicts my canon.

[Edited by Kain on 12-27-2000 at 00:42]