The fleet structure of Wing Commander

Originally posted by Vondoom
Also, a sidewinder has a range of nine miles but we have air to air missles with ranges of over 100 miles.
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A Sidewinder has a MAXIMUM range of 9 miles, all conditions being optimal (which rarely happens in combat situations). It has an EFFECTIVE range of 3-4 miles, less if head-on.

Similarly, the AIM-54 Phoenix missile has a MAXIMUM range of about 110 miles, but an EFFECTIVE combat range of about 50 tops. And no Phoenix missiles were fired in the Gulf War; indeed, few were even carried (as only the F-14 Tomcat can) after the opening couple of weeks of the War once the air threat was essentially eliminated.

I seriously doubt that you want to get into a miltary hardware debate with me, Vondoom. Really.

All that aside, my point stands unchallenged -- contrary to your post to which I originally replied, there were indeed dogfights in the Gulf War.
 
LOAF: I'm not the one who said that little tidbit of not true info. At least bother to pay attention. And you a re correct about the dogfights, been checking around on that one. But true dogfights were the exception not the rule. And my point about the missiles is this, the range is only going to get further and further as time goes on (within reason of course due to fuel constraints).
 
no sh***, A Phoenix cost about half million dollars each.
their are only being used if something REALLY posse a REAL danger to the Carrier our other ship.
 
Deep Blue beat a human at chess, a two dimensional board game where the greatest stakes are human pride. There will never be a machine that can beat a human, because guess who builds the machines? HUmans!! Even if someone were to design a machine that could improve itself and build better "offspring", so to speak, it would still be at most equal to a human, because it would use the intelligence it was programmed with to continue its line, and that would be at the same rate as humans would improve themselves. What we often forget is that humans make discoveries every day and get smarter every day, and that is why the machines get smarter. THey don't do it on their own like in The Matrix, and even then, human instinct still amnaged to give the AI a good ass-kicking. When you put a human fighter pilot in a do-or-die dogfight, the human will win because it has instincts that a computer can never have, and because a human has an inborn need for self preservation. No computer can be programmed to care about itself or others with the same ferocity and zeal as a human, because a human has emotions and a computer doesn't. Besides that space combat would be 4D, taking into account an infinitely large number of variables than a simple(relative to the complex workings of the universe) game of chess. While Deep Blue can easily beat the pants off of some-pocket-protected chess geek, I'd like to see it go up against a Navy SEAL in combat(which, before i get a smart response, I KNOW isn't possible because it has no motor systems that would allow it to do so, but even if it did, the SEAL would win).
 
Dragonmage: With all due respect, your wrong. Once we make a computer that is as smart as a human and able to react to its environment well enough, it could make newer and newer programs and especially ofspring, and while it takes humans millions of years to evolve, it takes computers about 18 months to double in processing power, so they will be considerably better than us soon, if the current situation is not changed.
 
It cracks me up whenever someone says (or writes) what can and cannot happen when it comes to the future of technology. Man on the moon, planes that land themselves, smart missiles, cloning, need I go on? All of these were considered impossible not all that long ago. How can anyone possibly rule out any technological advance as being farfetched?
 
Well ,that is fine but humans usualy come up with strange and complicated combat tatics (also know as dumb luck) and puting a real AI would prove too expensive, its better to train a human pilot that to put a AI in a fighter (read cheaper), besides a AI cannot fully be trusted, they are not humans, its something alien, and I cant see putting aliens fighting for humans, the danger that they could turn on us is to big to be ignore, we are a xenofobic race, we will never fully trust a AI no matter what. if their are going to be AI we will make sure that they never be as good as a human.
Besides Deep blue is just some sofisticated softwere not a true AI, someone can and will defected him, you can be sure of that.
We are quite capable of evolve, we dont need AI. To help us ,yes, to work with us, no.
 
I was under the impression that there was only one Vesuvius. :)
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There were 3 Vesuvii, the Vesuvius, the St. Helens, and the McKinley, and the Eisen might or might not be a vesuvius class ship
 
While we don't need AI it will make all human endevors easier. And I agree we can never trust AI unless we program in the famous 3 laws of robotics which go something like this:
Law 1: A robot Cannot harm or through inaction allow harm to be caused on a human being.
Law 2: A robot must follow all comands given to it by a human unless those commands conflict with law 1
Law 3: A robot must protect its own existance unless that protection conflicts with laws 1 or 2.

With those laws as the base programing within any robot brain a kind of Cognitive Anchor, all the robots would have to follow the laws or they would suffer a terminal case of cognitive dissonance. Just a thought
 
you are wrong besides the vesuvius the other ships are the St. Melons, St. Tushy and St. Booty.
And can we leave the AI alone, that have being debated for far too long, even before we were born, and what you are telling would be problematic in combat situations.
 
Dragon: WHat the hell am I wrong about? The base physcological concepts between what I have said work for a human mind and since any AI will/is based on the human mind because we make them in our own image (a GOD complex if oyu ask me). And the three laws can be base programs that cannot be overridden, it can and should be done. The St. Melons ect. was from a fan-fic not the real universe. That is it. And yes there were/are 3-4 vesuvii that are known to exist.
 
Just a joke about the vesuvius, dont take to the letter, besides we can never be sure of anything in the WC universe.
The AI discution is being around for too long (not here, in the real world) that started before we were born, we can talk about it until the WC P II and never get to any conclusion about it.
 
Originally posted by Dragon
no sh***, A Phoenix cost about half million dollars each.
their are only being used if something REALLY posse a REAL danger to the Carrier our other ship.
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Actually, it cost about a million per shot back in the late 80's. It's even more now.

[Edited by OriginalPhoenix on 01-27-2001 at 00:55]
 
Originally posted by Dragon
The AI discution is being around for too long (not here, in the real world) that started before we were born, we can talk about it until the WC P II and never get to any conclusion about it.
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That's because there's no need to get to any conclusion, because the whole discussion is moot. People who think that AI will never develop enough to parallel and/or surpass the human mind must surely be related to that IBM executive who felt that there would never be a market in America for more than 6 computers :).
 
Well the Pheonix (sorry bout the spelling again) was made by the Navy to destroy incoming soviet missles duirng the cold war. It is presently carried by only one aircraft in the Navy which is the F-14. Yet since is suppopsed to be phased out soon there are doubts to whether it is needed in this "safe world". Congress thinks that an Aegis class cruiser is just as well equiped than an F-14 with missles. That is open to debate. And the thing about deep blue. How can you compare the human mind to something equivelant to CHessmaster 3000? One more question, since i am a gun expert what type of guns do they use in wing commander. In WCIII they had some sort of laser gun and in WCIV you have that gun that shoots something that looks like electricity. I don't remeber seeing anything of the sort in WCP but if there is tell me. And who thinks that the WC universe could use some Colonial Marines like in ALeins. I think it couldn't hurt!
 
What??? if you mean hand weapon, the WCIV gun is a photon gun/pistol and in WCIII it would probably be the same but maybe my memory is fading but where in WCIII do you see handguns firing?
 
only when we are a coward before the prince, the guards shoot you.(I like to say "screw you" to him)
But those are kilrathi weapons and they are not hand guns.
 
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