*gags*
Seriosly, the same Karen Travis who thinks that the entirity of the Clone Wars was fought by 3 million Clones TOTAL??!? Also actually threated people who didnt like her books too!
Star Wars thread of great justice!
- Thread starter Tyrant
- Start date
*gags*
Seriosly, the same Karen Travis who thinks that the entirity of the Clone Wars was fought by 3 million Clones TOTAL??!? Also actually threated people who didnt like her books too!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Isn't that significantly more clones than it took them ten years to make in Episode II?
Because it took them roughly ten years to incubate the first ones, though the gestation time got much shorter as they were mass-produced... BTW, they about 1.2 milllion clones by the time Obi-Wan visited the Cloning facilities, and they had, well, more during the battle of Geonosis.
Futher more the 3 million thing is bullshit, because three milion clones isent even enough to earth RIGHT NOW!, let alone a Republic with hundred of thousands of worlds...
Futher more, the threats were metioned in Travises public journal, said that she had a gut instinct that people who disagreed with her numbers were mentally disabled(regardless of the fact that I DO have asperger's syndrome) and needed to be garroted, let alone in a further live journal, wanted the rip the tracheas out of the *talifans*, what she calls people that diagree with her...
Oh well, I do agree with you on X-Wing Alliance though. Fun...but...kind of felt left unfinished.
I tell you what, I hated the mission you had to capture the Shuttle Tyderium. Then again, I was like 12/13 at the time so I guess if I went back and tried it again I'm sure I'd find it easier with an attitude more to defending the shuttle rather than 'Lets kill lots of TIEs'!
Cheers,
Red Coat
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Karen is a very sweet lady. I've talked to her numerous times and even sent her some material from when Republic Commando was being made.
Not to mention, I'm sure the number of clones was something that Lucasfilm had established for all writers. They keep tight reigns on the "facts" in the novels.
Considering what I know first hand of her, all I can smell is bullshit from your corner.
The problem with many Lucasfilm facts is that they seem to be hardly thought through on even the simplest "reality check" if applied. This does not substract from the story nevertheless and one realy should keep in mind its just SciFi or for the matter of Star Wars "Fairy tale in space". 3 million falls short from what was fielded by single nations during the last century on earth so considering there are planets with 10, 100, 1000 etc. times the population of earth 3 million just seems awfully few.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It seems slightly amazing, but speaking as someone who has worked in a mass-media shared universe... that is *exactly* the sort of thing that will be defined by a writers bible (or, debated in detail by licensing if you take the opportunity to make it up).
Eh, on one hand, this is the internet -- people go out of their way to be as mean and as cynical as possible to make their points. Google certainly indicates that this started out as a case of a bunch of Star Wars fans being especially obnoxious about their criticism (criticism which, to an author, is absolutely groundless -- see above)... and happening to blame an incredibly pointless thing on a writer who turned out to be willing to stupe to their level on response.
On the other hand, I can't stand that 'talifans' bit, and it's sticking. It's just such a mix of mean-spiritedness balled together without having a real pun behind it... I really like Kevin J. Anderson, but I shudder whenever he uses it to defined everyone who's an asshole about the new Dune novels (but it doesn't make those people any less horrible).
(On the whole, though, a middle aged British woman pissing off a thousand Star Wars geeks is pretty darned funny.)
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Agreed, and lots of people have this problem -- check out the super-low population numbers in the Wing Commander writers bible... or the insanely high Kilrathi War casualty numbers in the Prophecy official guide.
The bigger problem here is how fans these days express their complaints, I think (and who they choose to blame them on).
Interesting... I really need to stop being too cynical. Also, Zelvik, good points.
EDIT: Loaf, have you been to StarDestroyer.net? Asking, since thats where most of the resistance to Travis is...(ish)
2nd EDIT: Karen Traviss is British?0_o
What were the casualties anyway? And the population? I got my Prophecy off a mate (For free I might add), and only got the CDs because he didn't have the manual or anything.
I also agree that '3 Million Clones' seems awfully few for a large-scale conflict across hundreds of planets. Around 1941-1942, the German army I believe fielded some 8 million men, and that was just one country with not nearly as high population as the Republic!
Then again, the Republican troops were clones I guess.
Cheers,
Red Coat
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Yeah, I'm familiar with the site.
What you have there are a small group of people who are taking the wrong part of Star Wars far, far too seriously... and in a strangely destructive manner. At the end of the day Star Wars *isn't* about technology -- I mean, that's *literally* the message of the first movie. Luke has to rely on his faith in the Force rather than his targetting computer... and somehow thirty years later we have an angry den of internet fans who'll slit your throat if you tell them he was using an MCX-7 targetting computer instead of an MCX-9*.
And I'll admit (because I'm incredibly guilty of this), future histories and elaborate technical backgrounds are incredibly fun. They're just absolutely engrossing... nothing is cooler than thumbing through an old WEG Star Wars sourcebook or the Dune Encyclopedia or the Aliens USMC handbook or some similar title for your favorite universe.
But can you imagine becoming *enraged* because your pre-conceieved notion of how fictional technology has been contradicted by a mass market novel? These guys saw Episode II and then they invented their own explanation as to why the Clone Army wasn't *really* the size the movie said... and now that some other authorized novel has repeated what George Lucas decided, and they're at the woman's throat. Almost literally, because the sordid internet lense lets shy fanboys become threatening back-alley creeps.
Now, you and I understand this setting. We argue about fake space technology all the time, and we know we're just kidding around when we call each other names and threaten everybody... a professional author who grew up in the pre-internet generation *doesn't*. Her idea if criticism is probably being told whether or not her story is interesting or whether or not her characters have depth... not an inbox full of "FUCK U FOR SAYING THE WRONG NUMBER OF CLONE TROOPERS I HOPE U DIE".
It's especially shocking here because it's not even a case of the writer disregarding the movies ('The Kilrathi are blue space dogs...')... it's a case of her doing *exactly* what Lucas decided and then being told off by a small group of people given an unfortunate amount of voice on the subject by the internet (consider - the hundred or so people, if that, posting to an angry thread are an entirely insignificant number compared to the tens of thousands-plus buying the book... or the millions who love Star Wars... but because of how our internet society is set up, she'll never hear from that 99.99 percent majority who just like reading fun books...).
* - I made these designations up - please do not hurt me, internet.
The old bible gives planets like Enyo populations in the hundred thousands... and the Official Guide to Prophecy gives the total human casualties for the war as 2.1 trillion.
Still quite mind boggling, 2.1 trillion, when you think about it. But I guess if thats the story then thats the story, I wonder what Kilrathi losses would have been like.
Oh dear, thats when you get a bit too serious, as you said. At the same time, they're only internet fans, nothing to worry about! Whats the worst thing they can do, spam your e-mail if they even have it?
Yeah, I agree. I often find myself reading back over the background stories, or anything really, of alot of stories. Anything I get my hands on I'll read. At the end of the day, its only a story and nothing too serious, but its alot of fun just getting yourself knee-deep in the story and having alot of fun!
Cheers,
Red Coat
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
7.4 trillion, from the same book.
Oh dear, thats when you get a bit too serious, as you said. At the same time, they're only internet fans, nothing to worry about! Whats the worst thing they can do, spam your e-mail if they even have it?
Well, you know that and I know that... but imagine what your mother's reaction would be to getting death threats in her e-mail (gross overgeneralization, of course, your mother may be great with computers... but there's a generation gap there)?
I absolutely agree -- somehow, a large group of people today forgot about the fun. If a new Wing Commander novel comes out tomorrow, I'm kissing the writer's feet for giving us a new story and more background for our universe... not complaining that he got Hunter's middle name wrong.
Interesting. Thanks, that clears some things up.
Its too high, both of them. Maybe 740 million dead for the Kilrathi and 240 Million for the Confederation, but I guess if thats what the story says, thats what it says, someone really wanted to make this conflict intense!
She isn't too bad with them, but I certainly see your point. Fortunately, the only e-mails that would be sent addressedt to me would go through the hotmail, where a handy delete button is always waiting to be used.
Yeah, exactly, I thought the fun of the story and such was the overall point of it?
One game I really fell in love with due mainly to its storyline was Strike Commander, and if you've played it, and judging because of its close relation to Wing Commander, I'm sure you have, you'll know that its storyline was quite, out there but believable and interesting. It got to the point in the game where, while I was having a whole lot of fun in the combat situations, I was looking forward to the cutscenes at the end that gave me more of the story about how the world was falling apart!
The good thing about Wing Commander though, is there is such a large range of things you can write a story about. With the lengthy war with the Kilrathi, think of the thousands of stories that you could create there? There is so much left untouched, that it would be amazing if someone actually wrote a bit about it, giving us more insight into the whole universe.
People might think its sad, getting into such a universe that much, but I see it as I'm enjoying a good story. And if you're going to enjoy it, you may as well enjoy it to the fullest and explore the story in full and to its greatest potential.
Cheers,
Red Coat
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
I think people get too caught up with what they know about real history. I don't want to get into the actual discussion, but complaining about how 3 million clone troopers is so much less than the Germans fielded in WWII is missing the point - the Republic is not Germany, and the Clone Wars are not WWII. And heck - by the same standards, isn't it just mildly unrealistic that the greatest power of our time, the US, would attack Iraq with 200,000 men? Iraq had a bigger army than that, you know...
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The size of the Republic is never quantified.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Yeah… it works out to something like 2,000 deaths a second. The Bible actually makes the casualties something very low – twelve million or so… but that number never got published, and the trillions did..
Also, what does the clone army do? Maybe they travel from place to place facing off against the standing droid army – leaving militia forces to occupy and defend planets… What if there are other armies besides the ‘Grand Army of the Republic’?
There’s plenty of room to build or ways to work out “problems” without yelling and screaming that Star Wars is ruined forever because its technology doesn’t work exactly how I decided it did.