Standoff supporting 3dfx?

T

THE_WUQKED

Spaceman
First off: I really love this mod so far :) Looking forward to finally play it :cool:
Anyway, to the reason why I'm posting:
Does Standoff support 3dfx Glide like SO and WCP did? And if yes, are the higher resolutions supported as well? - I ask cause they looked very uggly in the original High-Res pack for WC P / WC SO. Don't blame me if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find anything via Search nor on the homepage.
Oh, and before you ask "Who uses a 3dfx card anyway?": I'm using a glide wrapper, and WC P / SO looks much better in glide than it does in Direct3D. That's the reason why I'm asking. ;)
 
As UE worked with 3dfx I think it is save to assume that Standoff will as well. It should also do higher resolutions.
However - it will be the same technique used as in the High-Res patch for WCP/WCSO.
 
Exactly the same? cause the HUD at higher Res was totally messed up in WCP/SO for me :( - And according to the Readme it wasn't even tested before...
 
We make no attempt to support 3dfx in Standoff - our current version of the launcher doesn't even have a 3dfx option (this may change in the future, but it will still be a use-at-your-own-risk option). We know that there are still people out there using 3dfx, but we ourselves do not have 3dfx graphics cards, and so we really cannot implement 3dfx.
 
I don't have a 3dfx card either, but i'm using a real good wrapper (got that one especially for WCP/SO and Diablo2, which gives me even higher fps, btw. - so real nice one) You could use that one to test 3dfx, but of course that is no must. Still Glide support would be really nice :)
Here is the link to the wrapper I'm using - it's meant for newer gfx-cards like R9800/Gf FX/4 etc. - you'll need quite new drivers as well to have it working correctly:
http://home.t-online.de/home/zsack/glide_wrapper/index.html

P.S.: It's btw the only one I know which is still being improved and developed.
 
THE_WUQKED said:
Exactly the same? cause the HUD at higher Res was totally messed up in WCP/SO for me :( - And according to the Readme it wasn't even tested before...
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I don't know witch Hi-RES patch you're talking about, since HCl made two versions.

The first one, witch was used for UE and Standoff, allows the use of images made specificaly for each resolution. This means each HUD had to be manually resized for each resolution and it also means bigger downloads; but its also what looks best since one can build native files for each resolution. This patch was made avilable for SO only, AFAIK.

Since HCl didn't want nor have the time to resize each logo, menu and HUD, he made a second version of his patch; this one would dynamically resize the original 640x480 images to fit the desired resolution, making a much smaller download and eleminating the need to resize everything manually. The obvious drawback of this method is that the original files are not detailed enough to fit 1024x768, so that's why you find it ugly. This patch was made available for WCP only, AFAIK.
 
No it is not only that it is uggly! But the HUD is totally messed up! Nothing is where it normally should be. But cause I'm talking about WCP, I guess I have got the second one. Anyway, if it just would be the 640x480 I wouldn't mind, but cause somethings are in the middle of the screen instead of the crosshair, some things even missing, I don't use it.

EDIT: Just installed it again (although I can't set it back to 640x480, have to reinstall WCP) to show you what I'm talking about:

wuqked.setclan.com/bilder/1024wcpglide.jpg
wuqked.setclan.com/bilder/800wcpglide.jpg

Hmm, in my memory it looked even worse with ingame messages etc at wrong places. - But maybe that depends on each 3dfx drivers (the even more messed up was with a Voodoo Banshee if I remember right) - Anyway, still ugglier than 640 x 480 :(

EDIT2: Hmm, I get the exact same image problem with the WC SO Hres Patch. Guess that is where you see taht it was not tested with glide that much (that's also what was said in the Readme) - too bad :(
 
Well, like Quarto said, we won't officially support Glide - there will probably be an option in the launcher, but since we can't test it properly our response to any 3dfx-related technical issues people might encounter will be "try direct3d". :p

I'm not really sure what looks better in Glide, but for what it's worth, most of the texel alignment related bugs that WCP/SO had in direct3d mode don't exist in Standoff (because of the different texture files)... that is the only real issue I have with the engine's direct3d support.

Edit: From those screenshots, I don't really see any problems (maybe it's just me, though :p). What exactly do you mean?
 
LOL?! Look at the crosshair: there is something that should be...
Arg here is what it NORMALLy looks like:
wuqked.setclan.com/bilder/640wcsoglide.jpg
EDIT: Or do I really have to circle it with paint?

Anyway, to the diffs between D3D and 3dfx: It's not only the HUD/textures that was messed up (and got fixed), but also the nebular and shield effects that look better in glide. It's difficult to describe and my jpg-converter will delete this advantage (+ pictures can'T describe motions anyway), so I guess the only way is to simply play it in 3dfx (which is even possible with modern cards thx to wrappers.)
 
omg are you serious by referring to the crosshair?
Eder did the Standoff one from scratch to make it look like the WC1/2 version - and plz dont tell me the WCP crosshair looks better...

greetz

Bergi
 
Ok, I guess I'm mtotally misunderstood now. I'm currently NOT talking about Standoff. I'm simply talking about the HighRes Patch for WC P and SO for Glide gfx-cars. Why? Cause someone thouht I was just talking about the ugly 640x480 HUD in WCP, but it's the messed up things. I guess I mark them with paint now, as I'm getting misunderstood more and more...

I personally think the Standoff HUD looks really great, btw ;)

EDIT: Here are the pics with the problem marked.

wuqked.setclan.com/bilder/wrong.jpg
wuqked.setclan.com/bilder/right.jpg

EDIT2: I've just looked at the crossbow cockpit HUD again. And I think cause there aren't such "blue lines" at all, there shouldn't be a problem with 3dfx HUD. So I would love to see the 3dfx option available in Standoff - even if at own risk. :cool:
 
Quarto said:
We make no attempt to support 3dfx in Standoff - our current version of the launcher doesn't even have a 3dfx option (this may change in the future, but it will still be a use-at-your-own-risk option).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think, as with any mod or freeware game, Standoff should be entirely "use-at-your-own-risk". The 3DFX would be just a little "extra". :)
 
The thing you call "Crosshair" is just a part of the cockpit file that has not been removed or centered. IIRC, HCl removed them in the Hi-Res patch (at least in Direct3D and software modes) because they didn't look good in the Hi-res modes. Unfortunately, I think he doesn't own a Voodoo card so he didn't test it in 3DFX mode.
 
The thing you call "Crosshair" is just a part of the cockpit file that has not been removed or centered. IIRC, HCl removed them in the Hi-Res patch (at least in Direct3D and software modes) because they didn't look good in the Hi-res modes. Unfortunately, I think he doesn't own a Voodoo card so he didn't test it in 3DFX mode.
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I never called them "crosshair" - I just said: look at the crosshair. And here a quote:
Look at the crosshair: there is something that should be...
Click to expand...
These blue lines from the cockpit are "something" not belonging there.
But the HUD is totally messed up! Nothing is where it normally should be.
Click to expand...
This is about the blue lines as well. Don't know where you read that I called them "crosshair". And plz don't talk to me as if I'm just totally stupid or so. - At least that is what your first sentence in your last post sounds like - Btw, if I had said "cockpit" another would have said: No that isn't the Cockpit, it's part of the HUD, but the cockpit is physical. That's why I simply called it "thing"... :p
Anyway, this is getting far offtopic now.

Just like Delance said: it woulkd be a nice "extra" to have an experimental 3dfx option.
 
I think the blue lines your seeing are actually the shield hit effect going slightly inside the red polygon used to represent the hit. Ive never noticed this before, but ive turned palette flash off since I knew there was an option to do so.

Regarding 3DFX enhancements, theyre really worth checking out if your going to be replaying the original games anytime soon. The geometry on the capital ships is more detailed and smoother, but the model quality shouldnt transfer over to mods... where the real improvements kicked in were lighting and smoke/debris. In D3D, smoke sprites were pretty ugly and planar, and when a ship got damaged the "sparkly" things coming out of the back were sharp and clear... turn Glide on and the smoke became thick and rich, and the damage effects were much smoother. The lighting FX also seemed to be an order of magnitude better with Glide. I havent used OGL mode much since the only way ive been able to get it running was using MiniGL off the 3DFX card, and the improvements werent all that great (slightly better lighting, maybe better smoke? that I noticed).

Long story short: worth trying, if youve got the half-hour to get a wrapper running or throw in an old 3DFX card.
 
I think the blue lines your seeing are actually the shield hit effect going slightly inside the red polygon used to represent the hit. Ive never noticed this before, but ive turned palette flash off since I knew there was an option to do so.
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No, PopsiclePete was right there: It is part of the cockpit, cause there are there even when I'm not hit and they are simply meant to be at the top and the bottom of the screen. They are removed in D3D HiRes, but still exist in 3dfx, which is only an "use at your own risk" option anyway.
Regarding 3DFX enhancements, theyre really worth checking out if your going to be replaying the original games anytime soon. The geometry on the capital ships is more detailed and smoother, but the model quality shouldnt transfer over to mods... where the real improvements kicked in were lighting and smoke/debris. In D3D, smoke sprites were pretty ugly and planar, and when a ship got damaged the "sparkly" things coming out of the back were sharp and clear... turn Glide on and the smoke became thick and rich, and the damage effects were much smoother. The lighting FX also seemed to be an order of magnitude better with Glide. I havent used OGL mode much since the only way ive been able to get it running was using MiniGL off the 3DFX card, and the improvements werent all that great (slightly better lighting, maybe better smoke? that I noticed).
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Thx for the input, describes the difference much better than I did ;)

To the wrapper: The wrapper I use (http://home.t-online.de/home/zsack/glide_wrapper/index.html) doesn'T take half an hour or so to work: Just install it, run it to set things like you do with Direct3D with your normal Gfx-Card drivers (additional things to change are: Maximum resolution supported by your emulated 3dfx card, what Refresh Rate to use, how much Texture memmory your emulated 3dfx card will use and some more extras. - Anyway, you don't need to change anything to run WCP/So in 3dfx.) Just change your Gfx in the wCP/SO-launcher to Glide, that's all. The whole setup took me less than 5 mins (changed a few settings, cause I wanted higher Res support, more memory and higher Refresh Rates, no VSync). - So all in all: Getting an old 3dfx-card working under XP or simply installing a 3dfx card takes much longer than installing this wrapper ;)
And way easier than with any previous 3dfx wrapper I've tried + works way better (my PC now is nearly as fast in Diablo 2 as my Voodoo5 PC is - 800fps max and more! :cool: ).
 
Pierre is right, those things are just part of the top/bottom HUD decoration thingie. Shouldn't be hard to remove them, but, again, I can't test it. Never got a wrapper to work here, including the one you linked to here... my computer is just about the top of the line 2001 model, so that might be it.

Hell, even software mode is there just for the heck of it. Try to play Standoff in software and you'll get a nice slideshow of an intro before the occasional crash. :)
 
my computer is just about the top of the line 2001 model, so that might be it.
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Guess you are right, that should be the reason. I couldn't even use the wrapper I've linked with Cat 3.4 drivers for my R9700Pro - they were too old for the wrapper. And those are from mid last year! :rolleyes:
Pierre is right, those things are just part of the top/bottom HUD decoration thingie. Shouldn't be hard to remove them, but, again, I can't test it.
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I would test it for you, if you want :) - Would love to help somehow, but can't programm nor model or such things - and my voice is also bad for a game. But testing, is a thing I can do :D
 
Hmm. I've just checked the wrapper readme, and acording to it, it supports gfx-cards from Radeon 7xxx / Geforce 1 to the latest models. That would include your 2001 gfx-card (gf3/r8500 I guess?) - But for WCP/SO it suggests R8500 and up / Gf3 and up. Would still include yours if my calculation is right. No word what DirectX you need, that's strange... But OS's working are: Win98SE, XP and 2k.
Oh well, I guess I'll try this wrapper with my gf2 gts PC (win XP). Maybe I can fiddle it out to run WCP/SO properly ;)
EDIT: Or wait: Do you have a Kyro II or something like that? Than I guess there is nearly no chance for it to run properly :(

EDIT2: Lol, just noticed something with my WC SO (R9700 PC): I don't need the HiRes Proggy anyway: The wrapper already changes Res to 1280x960 Quality :cool: and I forgot to use better Texture quality, so now even better quality :D ) - I'll test the gf2 this afternoon, cause now I have some other suff to do.
 
I've tested the wrapper I posted with my Gf2 GTS. It works except one annoying bug: The HUD-Arrows (the one which directs to the nav point e.g.) are in a black square. This is especially annoying with the little swarm misslie HUD-arrows - you sometimes can't even see the enemy through it. :( So all in all: Worse than Direct3D, and cause of the bug very bad for testing.
 
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