Some more historical questions

Hehe, just looking at the bright side. ;)
Well, the bright side is mostly shiny and white :).


You know, this whole question of the Morningstar just hit me- it was being developed as part of a special program where _Maniac_ was the head... and Bluehair himself comments that whoever approved this must have been insane. Perhaps Morningstar was in development by one group that intended to provide it for various Special Forces groups, and either the project got nixed during the Mandarin debacle or the Victory simply doesn't get that kind of clearance. Meanwhile Excalibur was being developed by some other group. A theory, maybe one proposed before.
A strange theory to come up with, given that you only needed to read LOAF's post in this very thread to see that this theory can't be true. To repeat what he said, the Morningstar's description in the Academy manual indicates the Morningstar is being used on the front lines.
 
Ah... I was suffering from a very bizarre temporary amnesia at the time of my post that meant I remembered everything I had personally encountered in WC but forgot a very specific LOAF post. It's a mental condition. Yeah.
 
So... could it be possible that Morningstars would be used against BW Union?

By the way, I would strongly disagree with the opinion that the 'bolt is a "junk".
Isn't it the most long-lived bomber because of its non-aging design?
Confeds did use it effectively against bugs, didn't they?
 
Which doesn't make sense to me. I understand the need for maintaining a low profile to avoid attention from Kilrathi intelligence by using an obsolete carrier, but it was tasked with the single most important mission of the war - protecting the Behemoth, and later delivering the T-Bomb. Wouldn't it figure that they would equip Victory with the latest and best fighters including the above mentioned ships and not just a limited number of Excaliburs.

The only thing that is annoying about this is that the Lexington in WC4 is a front line carrier, yet still operating with the same old junk that the Victory had. Obviously, from a gaming standpoint this was pretty necessary, but it does add a little "weirdness" to the fact that the T-bolt, Arrow, and Hellcat are all supposed to be out dated (obviously, the Excalibur is another story).

I don't know if old is the same thing as outdated. Take the Arrow - we're talking about a brand new version of a design that's fifteen years old... not a fifteen year old fighter. For what it's worth, the fighter complement on the Lexington was factory fresh, according to the Wing Commander IV novelization. They're still building these things.

Speaking of Armada ships, do we ever know what the deal is with the Gladius and it's two wildly seperate variants that we see in Privateer and Armada?

I think that if you pull up the specifications they're remarkably similar -- the Armada version is a platform for those dumb-fire Proton torpedoes where the Armada version is a platform for dumb-fire Darts.

And as for Morningstars - is it possible that Confed would use it against BW in border conflict?

Well, yes... but that war didn't actually happen.

I believe that in the novels, possibly TPoF, it is explained that Confed high command did not really support the Behemoth Project, and that was part of the reason that Tolwyn was using the Victory in the first place.

That was False Colors -- but it's questionable as to how much we should believe this, since it's part of an elaborate story Tolwyn is telling Bear to get him to 'join' a portion of his conspiracy.

I wonder if it could be thought of in WWII terms when it comes to some of the fighters. In Germany, the Allies operated largely with P-47's, P-51's, etc. In the Pacific, there were the Wildcats, Hellcats, Avengers, etc. Obviously, there were two different branches (Army, and Navy) operating, but even the ground based fighters in the pacific were largely still Navy fighters.

That would be interesting, although Wing Commander does the services a little different from the United States - you're a 'Space Force' pilot on a Navy carrier. (The USAAF did fly in the Pacific, though -- they were running strategic bombing campaigns from the very beginning of the war. Think of LBJ's B-26 flight...)

Actually, to my eye, the Hellcat and the Morningstar have a very similar looking design. I had wondered for the longest time if the 'Cat might be a production scale fighter built using technology pioneered for the Morningstar, but LOAF shot that idea down for me by pointing out that the 'Cat probably pre-dates the Morningstar.

Well, I do have to agree with the others that your eye is somewhat poor here -- the Hellcat is boxy where the Morningstar is sleak. That said, we don't necessarily know the age of the Hellcat yet... I think it's the one flyable fighter which still lacks an official designation.

You know, this whole question of the Morningstar just hit me- it was being developed as part of a special program where _Maniac_ was the head... and Bluehair himself comments that whoever approved this must have been insane.

I don't think we should be so eager to accept Maniac's version of the truth - after all, that fact comes at the end of a scene where he brags about getting the two Ralatha to collide and explains that he turned down a promotion to Colonel. It seems clear that Blair doesn't believe his bragging in that very scene -- "You know, Todd, people say a lot of things..."


I was suffering from a very bizarre temporary amnesia at the time of my post that meant I remembered everything I had personally encountered in WC but forgot a very specific LOAF post.

Yes, a very specific post... that you were replying to.

By the way, I would strongly disagree with the opinion that the 'bolt is a "junk".
Isn't it the most long-lived bomber because of its non-aging design?
Confeds did use it effectively against bugs, didn't they?

I'm betting the Broadsword gets this record.
 
Yes, a very specific post... that you were replying to.

Now that bit isn't fair. I was replying more to the original post than I was to yours. Your version takes me from 99% idiot to 102%, which I strongly object to as I can't afford to move any farther down the scale :p.
 
Hmm...
Oh! By the way...
The encyclopedia states that the 'bolt IS NOT JUMP CAPABLE,
and do you remember Rachel in WC-III?
... he hit the jump point, made lots of fireworks...

Her actual line was

.....he hit the jump pint just as the Kilrathi were coming through

That says to me that by "hitting" the jump point he had just arrived at it, not jumped through himself.
 
Hmm...
What of the encyclopedia at www.wcnews.com?
Doesn't it state that the ship is still in use in 2681 ?

Yes, we see Thunderbolts in Secret Ops... which means they've been around from at least 2669 (WC3) to 2681 (WCSO). That's twelve years.

... but we know that the Broadsword entered service in 2632 (Handbook) and that it's still in service in Arena (2701). That's sixty-nine years.

Thus, the Broadsword holds the record. :)

Oh! By the way...
The encyclopedia states that the 'bolt IS NOT JUMP CAPABLE,
and do you remember Rachel in WC-III?

I didn't write anything in the Encyclopedia, but presumably that fact comes from the Warbirds poster's entry for the Thunderbolt ("Jump Capable: No"). Here's a scan: https://cdn.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/smallwar-confed-5.jpg

Kyle Maverick is also correct - Rachel doesn't say anything about jumping... her ex went to a jump point that the Kilrathi were coming through.
 
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Yes, we see Thunderbolts in Secret Ops... which means they've been around from at least 2669 (WC3) to 2681 (WCSO). That's twelve years.

... but we know that the Broadsword entered service in 2632 (Handbook) and that it's still in service in Arena (2701). That's sixty-nine years.

Thus, the Broadsword holds the record. :)

If memory serves the Scimitars and Rapier-Is were in service for over a hundred years and the same is said of the Minotaur in Action Stations. In Wing Commander and some other Sci-Fi ship models stay in production and front-line service for a very, very long time so saying that just because the Victory's fighters were older models means that they should be out of service by WC IV doesn't make sense IMO.
 
:confused:??????.............because they both have a place for a pilot to sit??

Hey who the heck let him out??


As in their roles, the morningstar carries two torpedoes, and the mace missile, and has a jumpdrive, you could perform a quick strike on a capship with ease, while the hellcat V is more suitable for a defensive role.

Welcome to space battles everyone... :mad:
 
The only thing that is annoying about this is that the Lexington in WC4 is a front line carrier, yet still operating with the same old junk that the Victory had. Obviously, from a gaming standpoint this was pretty necessary, but it does add a little "weirdness" to the fact that the T-bolt, Arrow, and Hellcat are all supposed to be out dated (obviously, the Excalibur is another story).

Why should they buy those expensive fighters, when there is no war? I stick with LOAF here, the fighters aren't necessary old, they could have been built for the Lexington, but with an old design to save money. After all, it is only Tolwyn, who is seeing an up and coming war.
 
Agree on the age issue.

After all, look at our air force today. The F-22 Raptor is THE most advanced fighter ever admitted to exist, and will fly circles around every other fighter that is publically known about. And yet we only have two (?) squadrons of them, and aren't building many more, while we continue to produce (or at least maintain) large numbers of F-16's, F-15's, and FA-18s, all of which were designed (and many of which were built) in the 70's, almost forty years ago. Because they're cheap, and they're good enough for a peacetime role.

It's like why policemen don't drive tanks. You don't need a morningstar to suppres pirates...hellcats work just fine.
 
Agree on the age issue.

After all, look at our air force today. The F-22 Raptor is THE most advanced fighter ever admitted to exist, and will fly circles around every other fighter that is publically known about. And yet we only have two (?) squadrons of them, and aren't building many more, while we continue to produce (or at least maintain) large numbers of F-16's, F-15's, and FA-18s, all of which were designed (and many of which were built) in the 70's, almost forty years ago. Because they're cheap, and they're good enough for a peacetime role.

It's like why policemen don't drive tanks. You don't need a morningstar to suppres pirates...hellcats work just fine.

Hey, I'm german, don't get me started on the F-4 ;).
 
Didn't Blair have a similar thought regarding this in WC4 (probably the novel), how odd it was that the Lexington was relying heavily on hellcats and arrows?
 
After all, look at our air force today. The F-22 Raptor is THE most advanced fighter ever admitted to exist, and will fly circles around every other fighter that is publically known about. And yet we only have two (?) squadrons of them, and aren't building many more, while we continue to produce (or at least maintain) large numbers of F-16's, F-15's, and FA-18s, all of which were designed (and many of which were built) in the 70's, almost forty years ago. Because they're cheap, and they're good enough for a peacetime role.

There's about 135 Raptors spread across like eight squadrons now. But it does seem like the F-16, F-15 and F-18 production lines will sadly outlive the F-22 line. Boeing just unveiled a new Stealth F-15 design a couple weeks ago.

Didn't Blair have a similar thought regarding this in WC4 (probably the novel), how odd it was that the Lexington was relying heavily on hellcats and arrows?

I don't recall it. You're probably thinking of the Border Worlds using older fighters.
 
Didn't Blair have a similar thought regarding this in WC4 (probably the novel), how odd it was that the Lexington was relying heavily on hellcats and arrows?

Ummm.... Wasn't it a parody fan "novel"?
The URL is

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/7575/wc4.html

Let me look for the quote...
"Yes, sir. The Border Worlds are obviously mobilizing, and they have at least two new advanced fighter types. If we keep going up against them in these obsolescent ships, I'm going to start losing a lot of pilots."

Eisen's look of concern told me more than his words. "Colonel, I have been begging HQ for more modern equipment ever since I took this command. You'd almost think--" He caught himself, as if he were about reveal too much. I knew better than to pursue the question.

"You'll just have to do the best you can with what you have. Dismissed, Colonel."

But I do not recall any mentioning of "old fighters" in the official book.
 
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