Secret Ops: Powergaming?

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
HI, as I announced in another thread I open this thread about the relation ( or the lack of it) of SOPS to WCP ships.
I was a little annoyed how the ships got much improved whereas the bug ships got even worse (their stats did not changed but their weapons got weaker and the beams travelled really slow plus they look extremely stupid).
Let's take a look at the ships first: They all got a huge push in top speed, added firepower and protection. At what cost? And those guns: What is the drawback of the Dust cannon? And why use the Chain Ion canons? They are weaker, slower and have a shorter range than the Pulse Particle (charge and refire delay are the same) so what are they for?
I do not want to hear: "They are cheaper to built and easier to maintain". I mean in game terms? Didn't it annoy you that your ship now was almost flawless?
And now look at the Cerberus: 350kps top speed. If they hadn't upgraded the Devastator the Cerberus could
outrun a bomber and a Skate cluster cannot surpass it.
I mean where are the relations?
This is no thread about scientific arguments that it is possible that all those ships have been upgraded in such a short time etc....
I just want to know if you felt the same way.
 
Unfortunately there are alot of weird things in WCP and SO. Something the programmers probably didnt have time to tweak. Since they left out multiplay capabilities due to time constraints, its not hard to imagine the other things that seem obviously flawed. The overall game however is a good one. The cap ships dont explode into a kazillion pieces like they should. Certian guns have very poor performance compared to others. Updates on certian craft do seem a little out of the norm compared to a carriers specs. But I think that we can all take some blame on their (EA/OSI) reasons for not addressing these things before release of the game. When you get pushed to the wall, little details will get left out to meet a deadline!

RFBurns
 
Its quite simple, the black varient of the fighters is that you are working now for CIS (ConFed Intel? servises?) not the Navy, those fighters use prototype weapons, the Bugs use the regular ones.


[Edited by Dragon on 02-27-2001 at 17:54]
 
But the bugs had improved weapons as well, perhaps they were on their own black op thing, only 2 weapons I saw that was the same was the Gorgon Heavy on the Devil Ray fighters. But those seemed to have a bit more damage rate than the Gorgon Heavy guns in WCP. And the bugs Plasma gun was the same, but I think too it had a touch more damage power.

RFBurns
 
Originally posted by RFBurns
Unfortunately there are alot of weird things in WCP and SO. Something the programmers probably didnt have time to tweak. Since they left out multiplay capabilities due to time constraints, its not hard to imagine the other things that seem obviously flawed.
Click to expand...


To you, they seem flawed. They do not have to seem flawed to everyone else, this includes the designers.

The overall game however is a good one. The cap ships dont explode into a kazillion pieces like they should.
Click to expand...

That was a concious decision. Nothing to do with time. Actually, it's probably easier to make the object explode like they did in the other Wing Commander games than do it like they did.

Certian guns have very poor performance compared to others.
Click to expand...

That's the way it's always been in Wing Commander games... You have guns that do little and then, as you move through the game, you get bigger guns.

Updates on certian craft do seem a little out of the norm compared to a carriers specs.
Click to expand...

In what way?

But I think that we can all take some blame on their (EA/OSI) reasons for not addressing these things before release of the game. When you get pushed to the wall, little details will get left out to meet a deadline!
Click to expand...

Except most of these 'little details' don't have anything to do with time.

TC

RFBurns
[/QUOTE]
 
The lack of total capship explosions turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it lead to the virus plot in Secret Ops.

Anyway, the 'S' version fighters are supposed to be amazingly well armed -- note that Confed in SO still uses the same old WCP ships (or, in some cases, the slightly altered next models).
 
Hmmm, OK the ships you fly are "s" variants which are prototypes and so have the right to be completly flawless.
But I wanted to know if you do not consider this powergaming?
And TC, the guns in WC always had some kind of drawback which made the weapons (theoretically) equal, e.g. the Laser does minor damage but has a long rang, fires fast and uses little energy. The Particle cannon is the moderate weapon, whereas the Neutron Gun/Tachyon, depending which time, uses more energy and fires slowly but does a great deal of damage. But, now the Pulse Particle are superior to the Chain Ion in every aspect or the same. The Chain Ion has no advantage over any new weapon. Or one advantage of the Tachyon in WCP was that it travelled very fast, and now in SOPS: bam! You get 2 guns which now travell significantly faster. And I do not have to talk about the Dust cannon, we all know about that devastating weapon. And the bug guns got worse as their travelling speed decreased awfully plus they changed the look of the beams to very very stupid colors and forms. I think the Lamprey cannon is the only one that was improved (it fires faster) and perhaps the Gorgon also fires a bit faster but all the other weapons (Light Maser, Heavy Maser, Light Plasma, Quantum Disruptor) were weakened.
I once tried, with the help of Bruckner's ship switcher to play sops with bug guns/ships. It is almost impossible to hit sth fast moving when your guns just travel at 2000 whatever per sec.
 
Apparenty TC I am not the only one that thinks some of the updates on SO ships are somewhat flawed. Like the top speed of the Cerberus vs the top speed of the Devistator. Had the Devistator keept its original top end speed, the Cerberus would outrun it! I dont know about you, but that is way out of the ordinary. Then theres the gun issue performance in WCP vs SO, such as the cloudburst vs tachyon guns or even the particle cannon vs pulse particle cannon. Side by side there are some very obvious changes that really didnt do much in the way of improvement. Another example is the Panther's gun recharging rate. Very very poor. The Wasp also has very poor recharge rate for the drain those dust cannons put on that thing. The Cloudbursts rate of fire and speed are inferior compared to a regular particle cannon. Although they boast more power, they suck more power too, and with a charge rate that hasnt changed with guns that draw more energy per shot, that really doesnt give you any real advantage to having those guns compared to loading up a couple of tachyons and ion guns. Anyway thats my opinion and if you dont like it, oh well! :)
RFBurns



[Edited by RFBurns on 02-28-2001 at 14:00]
 
Whereas I agree with RFBurns in many points (especially the thing about Cerberus' top speed) I think the Cloudburst/Tachyon GUn relation is OK.
They have the same refire rate and range and although the Cloudburst beam moves 2000kps slower than the Tachyon, it is still fast enough. The Cloudburst draws 50% more power than the Tachyon but also deals about 50% more damage than the Tachyon, so I think the Cloudburst is one of the few weapons in SOPS which is not too good or too bad, compared to other WCP guns.
 
Um... capship go faster than fighters can quite a few times in the novels... They just have a slower acceleration.

TC
 
top speed

I can see the humour in a cap ship outrunning a fighter.... use to much afterburner on the mission, you've got noway to land!!!
 
The S variants aren't necessarily prototypes... they're special, expensive CIS versions of the ships for the elite pilots assigned to Cerberus.
 
So if we still fly Panthers and Vampires in the next game, we'll be reduced to tachyons, ions, and particles. Well, that might be a challenge...
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
So if we still fly Panthers and Vampires in the next game, we'll be reduced to tachyons, ions, and particles. Well, that might be a challenge...
Click to expand...

Honestly those ships performed better with the tachyon and ion and particle guns than they do in SO with those heavy drain cloudbursts and dust cannons. They should have increased the charge rates a bit more.

RFBurns
 
What? I agree that in a Shrike the Dust cannon is virtually worthless, but the Wasp can make really good use of the Dust Cannon.Perhaps when you use "full guns" it is too much drain but you do not need "full guns" when you fly a Wasp with Dust Cs. And I never had problems in the Panther with the Cloudburst.
 
The problems are, you can get good shots to a target in the Wasp and Panthers, but their recharge rate SUCKS compared to the other loadouts in WCP. To me, the guns did have more damage potential, and are effective but drain you dry real quick! Particularly when its up to you to take on the whole universe while your wing flys around screaming for help. If the SO ships are the S variants for so called "elite" pilots, some of them need re-training!! I cant count how many times Zero and Stilletto cry out for help in SO! Not so elite IMO.

RFBurns
 
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