Quick Qs about "carriers"

Of course, I have to note that Ralgha was *not* a traitor at that point -- his alternate personality hadn't yet been activated by Thrakhath.

We know he was transferred to the Victory just after ER... I *don't* think that the 'strike carriers' were counted amongst the various numbers for ships given in Fleet Action...
 
Loaf you say no carrier was designed to operate alone, wasn't the Midway designed to do just that?

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Don't look conspicuous-it draws fire.
 
No, the Midway was *not* designed to operate alone... read your ICIS manual, during wartime the Midway is to 'form the nucleus f a battelgroup'. It *did* operate alone in Prophecy because it was cut off from the rest of the Confederation...

Hobbes' defection had two important gains for the Kilrathi: he provided false intelligence regarding Kilrathi society and such and he saved ultimately Kilrah from destruction at the hands of the Behemoth.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Hobbes was caught trying to relay data on the tembler bomb, Kalk. Furthermore, since the T-Bomb and the Behemoth both have the exact same destructive capability (they shake Kilrah apart), you would probably die at the same speed.

Ralgha didn't *send* Kilrah anything before he was activated -- but he *did* provide Confed Intelligence with false data regarding the Kilrathi... which he believed to be real.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
About the "not trusting" thing. The Kilrathi as a species seemingly gave Confed a reason NOT to trust them with the Hakaga carriers and the false treaty. Hence the opinion within the military would turn against Hobbes, who although then was trustworthy(his "alternate" personality hadn't been activated yet..right?), was met with distrust on the Victory after the BoT(he seemed to have a following on the Concordia, and also on the Wolfhound, considering he actually was the WC, and how Bear suggested Lone Wolf be reassigned under him). You know if Thrakhath had activated that personality overlay, while he was a WC on the Wolfhound, it WOULD have given the Kilrathi an even BIGGER advantage against Confed, even tipping them off about Vukar.(I know simple reason, they hadn't thought up that little plot detail yet).

How well would his "false intel" about Kilrathi society work though? If they were incredibly false wouldn't Kirha's information give it away? Or at least cast doubt upon it?(Methinks this is a dangling discontinuality here....)

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight
 
Uhm, no, Thrak didn't *KNOW* that Ralgha was assigned to the Wolfhound and that the Wolfhound was at Vukar. Without knowing where Ralgha was, he couldn't contact him with 'the message'
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And if he knew that the Wolfhound was about to strike at Vukar, he wouldn't have needed to contact Hobbes anyway
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As for Kirha, we're told in FF and FA that Intel doesn't trust him because he's a prisoner of war and not a defector.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
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LOAF: Where do you get that "false info" stuff? If Hobbes had given them false info about the Kilrathi society, this would've been noticed when Ghorah Khar rebelled. Or did Confed assume that the Ghorah Khar Kilrathi are all deviants? Besides, just about everything that Hobbes told them was also confirmed by various Covert Ops.
 
From the Wing Commander IV novel, which notes that much of what Hobbes reported to about Kilrathi culture was false. The Hobbes persona knew only what he was given from Thrakhath *AND* whatever he learned since gaining the personality. Since he was ordered to give information about the rebellion *AFTER* he had the false personality instilled, it's quite possible that it was real.

Where did *YOU* get that all of his information was confirmed by Covert Ops
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?



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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
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It's right there in the KSaga manual, LOAF.

"The following information is a compilation of facts offered by Ralgha nar Hhallas and gathered by Terran Intelligencce and various Covert Ops."

Furthermore, I just don't see how Hobbes would have false information about the Kilrathi culture... Think about it. He did not defect immediately after getting the personality. Thus, unless the entire crew of the Ras'Nik'Hra was in on it, and upheld the deceit (which is pretty much impossible. It's like telling a group of people that as of right now, they belong to a different ethnic group and should behave accordingly), he would've soon realised that something's messed up.

Anyway, note that we're only talking about culture here. It is possible that he had given them false information about certain people, certain plans, but not about culture, because culture is something that's all around you, even on a military ship.

As for the WC 4 book... I don't recall anything in WCP giving the slightest implication that Blair got together with Panther (or whoever) in WC 4. Hint.
I'm not about to start yelling that the books aren't a part of the universe and all such other nonsense
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. But let's face it. Certain mistakes of continuity appear between books, games, and other books. Didn't Forstchen or Keith kill off one of their characters, only to have him reappear in the next book?
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And in the case of books vs. games, games are far closer to our hearts than the books are.
 
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You'd better provide a quote, bucko -- because the one you gave me doesn't say anything about Covert Ops confirming what Ralgha had reported. Rather, the document was created in 2652 by Covert Ops, *BEFORE* Ralgha had arrived.

Freedom Flight explicitly states that Ralgha's notes on the Kilrathi were believed by Intelligence because he was a defector -- whereas Kirhas (and presumably the crew)'s were *not* because they were POWs. The Wing IV novel specifically states that Blair is wary of his knowledge regarding Kilrathi culture because Hobbes had provided false information.

And ye gods, didn't throwing the plate out with the dinner go out of style when Delance got less crazed? Blair and *SOSA*, do *NOT* get together in the Wing IV novel... read it again. Blair is just attracted to her. Keith *DID* kill off all the WC3 characters. In the first draft -- something that was changed before the book was published. Only Flint dies in the published version -- and she's still dead
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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
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From the Holy Writ

"The point of the megacarrier concept is a vessel that can deal effectively with any local-crisis-ground-based, orbital or deep-space-with minimal escort, but which CAN also serve as the center of a strike force or carrier group in the event of actual war."

We hear Zero say the Midway HAS no backup BEFORE Midway is cut off from Confed. And the carrier likely served alone against Kilrathi pirates because no mention was made of an escort.

The megacarrier program was designed to provide a level of defense equal to half the fleet in a more economic way than replacing ships of existing types.

"The Midway is designed both for longer cruises and more diversified missions of peacetime, and to be a virtual floating naval base in a time of military emergency."

Well sounds to me like Midway is DESIGNED to operate independently, not that it always does, but it has proven capable of doing so. Even the Lexington operated independently from what we can see in WC4, altough the novel says otherwise.

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Don't look conspicuous-it draws fire.
 
"2652.102
Last revision: 2668.312"

Granted, the quote I gave before does not actually say CovOps confirmed Ralgha's words, but it also doesn't say they proved him wrong. And a document which was last revised in 2668.312 is bound to take the rebel Kilrathi in consideration. Thus, I really don't see how our knowledge of the Kilrathi culture can be put to question by Hobbes' overlay. Furthermore, had you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that I did not imply that the crew's words would prove Hobbes' duplicity; rather, that the crew's words would utterly confuse Hobbes himself, as they would presumably go against the knowledge he had been fed.

In regards to plate throwing, I stated my argument in a sensible manner. I certainly did not "throw plates", I merely defended my points to the best of my knowledge. I would appreciate it if YOU stop insulting me by accusing me of "throwing plates".
I would think you'd know me better by now. If I continue arguing about something, it's not because of some stupid "I'm right and you're wrong" concept, but rather because I see logical reasons why I would be right. I for one do not believe that "the canon is always right even when it's wrong".

Thanks for clearing up the WC 4 book thing (which I've never read since I don't have it). I suppose I really shouldn't have brought that specific example up, since I couldna be sure about it. But it was only to prove a point - that there are errors, even if you still won't admit it.
As for people being killed off and coming back, I did _not_ mean the people from WC 3, but rather that... guy... Admiral Bainbridge? Turner? Dunno. I don't have any of the books, so I can only go by what other people (that includes you, btw) have previously stated.
 
The Lexington *tried* to operate independantly and ended up getting the crap blown out of it.

Re: Prophecy. It's alone because it's still on its shakedown cruise -- later in the game, you'll see that it works with the TCS Eisen. Suggest you read the first paragraph on the Midway in the official guide.

Uhm, the plate throwing was not an insult, it was an analogy. An *APROPRIATE* analogy, as you sought to discredit information from the WCIV novel by attempting to prove problems with other parts. Thusly you through out the plate (the whole thing) with the food (specific parts that aren't right about it). Lighten up, dude, and don't turn this into some sort of a feces slinging match where it most certainly is not.

My impression regarding the document was that it was written by Douglas in 2652, and updated by Ralgha in 2668. Note that the document also has nothing to do with the original topic -- which was that Hobbes had provided false information regarding Kilrathi customs. Does *this* document have to be an example of this false information?

Admiral Richards died in False Colors, and was then mentioned in the WCIV novel (which was printed earlier, but took place later). It's of note that Keith corrected this problem *before* the book was published (by promising to explain it in FC2).


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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Crap-slinging? Like I said, I'm just trying to prove my point. If I run out of arguments, I'll agree with you
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. But I am always offended when it even _seems_ like somebody is comparing me to one of those people who essentially rant and rave with no logic. I think you can understand why I'd find that offensive
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.
Anyway, the analogy was not appropriate, because I was NOT implying that the whole book and all the others should be thrown in the bin as inconsistent with the rest of the universe
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. And I made that clear right at the start.

What I was saying, was that if there is one mistake, there is the possibility of others. My point is that each of the writers has his own vision of the WC Universe, and when it all comes together, some inconsistencies arise. This does not make their work any worse though...

Re: The document.
It was compiled by some guy (2nd. Lt. Chris Douglas - is that the name of somebody at Origin, btw? Not that that has to do with anything; I'm just wondering). I'm sure that Ralgha didn't actually update it. It just includes things he told them.
Anyway, _this_ document is the only information I've seen about the Kilrathi... Goddamn, I wish they'd sell those darned books over here
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. Besides, it talks about Kilrathi culture, so if Hobbes gave false information about culture, than this thing is false. And if this isn't the false information, then pray tell, what is?
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[In case you haven't noticed, I'm also using these arguments to extract more information out of you
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. But I'm sure you don't mind.]

[This message has been edited by Quarto (edited February 18, 2000).]
 
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Hehe, Blair's quote regarding false information on Kilrathi culture came from the Wing Commander IV novel while he was trying to find the proper honorifics to greet Chancellor Melek... he 'thinks' about how much of the information Ralgha had provided ended up being false.

Chris Douglas is/was an artist at Origin. Namesake of the Douglas Quadrant and a number of other references.
 
That's just dumb... Why would the Kilrathi feed us the wrong information about forms of address?

Hey, we've just crossed the 7000 post barrier
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.
 
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Why is it that you seem to have absolutely no ability to distinguish between individual examples and entire concepts? Blair commented that Hobbes had fed the Confederation false information on Kilrathi culture *WHILE* he was trying to find the proper form of address.

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Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG
 
Give me a break
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. I asked you about what false information was given, and in the next post, you start talking about Blair trying to figure out the proper form of address. What, may I ask, is so wrong about my assumption that you answered my question?

And like I said before, I have _not_ read the books. All I can go by is what you tell me... so if I misunderstand what you say, that's because you didn't make it clear enough.
 
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Wha? I was fairly clear in describing the situation from whence the comment appeared... don't be so accusatory.
 
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