Privateer Cap ship

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Privateer seems to have come under discussion as of late... and being the trendwhore i am:p couldnt help but contribute...

Could someone shed some light on the Paradigm? I know she's a Confed destroyer, but you never see another one like her anywhere in the WC Universe. I figure she's patrolling around Gemini so... what? Is she assigned to backwater duty? I thought that explanation made the most sense... an out of date destroyer, maybe one of the last of its class, assigned to a relatively peaceful (term used losely) sector. Also, she has similar markings to ships of the WC3 time, most of which i know to be somewhat backwater...

But then i look at her armorments... damn... shes got a lot to offer... more so then most of the other ships of the same class...
 
Could someone shed some light on the Paradigm? I know she's a Confed destroyer, but you never see another one like her anywhere in the WC Universe. I figure she's patrolling around Gemini so... what? Is she assigned to backwater duty? I thought that explanation made the most sense... an out of date destroyer, maybe one of the last of its class, assigned to a relatively peaceful (term used losely) sector. Also, she has similar markings to ships of the WC3 time, most of which i know to be somewhat backwater...

Actually, the Paradigm is supposed to be a fairly new ship. The Privateer manual calls it "one of the Confederation's most advanced destroyers". The Paradigm (in fact, the TCS Paradigm herself) also appears in the Origin FX screensaver package. It gets a similarly positive description there: "In the year 2663, the Terran Confederation has spread throghout the galaxy, and the Paradigm is the pride of their capital fleet... this ship is an impotant element in the Confederation's tenuous hold on the evil Kilrathi empire."
 
For the same reason that the Exeter didn't appear in WC2 - fans may love continuity, but they love new ships even more.

(also, while it has been proven that it is possible to make a 3d model of your average WC2/Priv ship with few enough polies to work well in the WC3 engine, the fact remains that if you only had one such "rounded" capship, it would look completely out of place next to all the others)
 
Then, why doesn't it appear in WC3?

Why don't *any* of the Privateer ships appear in WC3? It takes place at the same time!

Remember this, because I'm going to be spending the next six months beating it out of terrible Wikipedia entries: a game introducing a new ship *doesn't* mean that that ship is new.

Hell, consider the Victory - an *essential* part of the WC3 story is that it's a very, very old ship... and yet we don't see them in WC1. Another essential plot point is that there's *one* exciting new fighter, the Excalibur. The fact that it's the first time we see the Hellcat, Arrow, Thunderbolt and Longbow *doesn't* mean that they're entirely new designs that suddenly appeared. We know from other stories now that three of those four were around during WC1!

A new game has new ships because that's more fun (or, in the case of Arena, old ships because that's more fun). Nobody wants to fly the same fighter over and over, as "realistic" as that is. It is not a claim that Confed has completely restocked its inventories everywhere.
 
I really liked the "Ferret" :) I always hoped it would be my fighter but seemingly the better you do in the game the less you got to fly it :( no love there.
 
I really liked the "Ferret" :) I always hoped it would be my fighter but seemingly the better you do in the game the less you got to fly it :( no love there.

Yeah is it just me or is the Ferret more durable then the Epee... i dont know what it is, but the Epee seems painstakingly easy to kill. Also, the Ferret's shield recharge is faster.
 
Just from looking at the stats in the ship editor, the Ferret has about fifty percent more armor and a hair more shields than the Epee.
 
Just from looking at the stats in the ship editor, the Ferret has about fifty percent more armor and a hair more shields than the Epee.

Yes, the printed specifications are the same way (though not directly correct). The original idea was that the Ferret would be a separate ship experience that player has when he's with the ISS. That's why it gets separate classification, "Patrol Fighter". The WC1 light/medium/heavy dynamic was the Epee->Rapier II->Sabre on the Concordia.
 
Yes, the printed specifications are the same way (though not directly correct). The original idea was that the Ferret would be a separate ship experience that player has when he's with the ISS. That's why it gets separate classification, "Patrol Fighter". The WC1 light/medium/heavy dynamic was the Epee->Rapier II->Sabre on the Concordia.

Well, i for one enjoyed flying for ISS, the ferret and starbase, though backwater was kinda cool
 
Of course, all that no-preassure patrols :)
Ferret's a pretty good ship. Better than Epee anyways.

Yeah... Oh btw, does anyone know if th Concordia still had her original fighter compliment by the time she went down, or had she maybe stocked some of the Wing Commander 3 fighters? (Due to production restraints or her transfer to backwater duty?)
 
Yeah... Oh btw, does anyone know if th Concordia still had her original fighter compliment by the time she went down, or had she maybe stocked some of the Wing Commander 3 fighters? (Due to production restraints or her transfer to backwater duty?)

No, we don't have that sort of detail about the Concordia's last tour. Remember that (almost) all of the WC2 and 3 fighters existed at the same time - neither set is definitively *newer* than the other.
 
Why don't *any* of the Privateer ships appear in WC3? It takes place at the same time!

Remember this, because I'm going to be spending the next six months beating it out of terrible Wikipedia entries: a game introducing a new ship *doesn't* mean that that ship is new.

Hell, consider the Victory - an *essential* part of the WC3 story is that it's a very, very old ship... and yet we don't see them in WC1. Another essential plot point is that there's *one* exciting new fighter, the Excalibur. The fact that it's the first time we see the Hellcat, Arrow, Thunderbolt and Longbow *doesn't* mean that they're entirely new designs that suddenly appeared. We know from other stories now that three of those four were around during WC1!

A new game has new ships because that's more fun (or, in the case of Arena, old ships because that's more fun). Nobody wants to fly the same fighter over and over, as "realistic" as that is. It is not a claim that Confed has completely restocked its inventories everywhere.

That's one thing that I find kinda odd, the fact that one way or another, most WC craft are ancient... With the exception of the Rapier in WC1, the Epee, Crossbow and Morningstar in WC2, Excalibur in WC3, Wraith in Academy and, finally, Bearcat and Dragon in WC4, all other fighter/bomber craft around the Kilrathi war period are supposed to be decades, or even centuries old. (Yes, WC4 is after the war, but it's close enough).

It's funny because as far as we know, technology evolves really fast during major wars, and it's usually a lot cheaper to make whole new combat fighter models than retrofitting the new tech. I'm not talking about Capships, obviously, because it's a completely different thing. I'm refering mostly to the ships we fly.

OF course, we're talking about the 27th century, but there is no reason why those factors should have changed. I don't question the "truth" of that fact within the games, I won't dispute it as a part of the canon, but it is interesting that writers had the extra effort of making the fighters and bombers so damned old, because, otherwise, most people would assume that the Arrow, Sabre, Broadsword, Hellcat, and so on are fairly recent ships, instead of ancient machines.
 
I thought the T-bolt was a newer fighter design as well...

but to your point, with the exception of WC1-WC2, there is really not a lot of time passage between WC2-4 (a couple of years? I don't recall the exact dates). Even looking at the current military, F-14's were in service for a long period of time before being discontinued, but underwent many upgrades in their lifetime.

One thing that WC does better than a lot of other Sci-fi genres is that the people do seem to take cost into consideration. Confed doesn't have the resources to keep on designing, tooling, and popping out new fighters every year. Instead, they are fighting tooth and nail to just stay in the fight.
 
I'm not really referring to the passage of time between games, but the the background of most of the fighters and bombers.

And the F-14 is a machine from a time without major wars...

Take WW2, for instance, we went from the Hurricane, P-40 and Ju-87 to the Corsair, P-51 and Me-262.
 
Take WW2, for instance, we went from the Hurricane, P-40 and Ju-87 to the Corsair, P-51 and Me-262.
I think in regards to WWII, you're too focussed on the winners. It was relatively easy for the UK (and far easier still for the US) to upgrade their planes - once Germany went to war with Russia, the UK could gradually switch production lines to newer designs. Even in spite of this, though, the Hurricane remained in use for most of the war, and the Spitfire remained in production right until the very end of the war... and these two planes were both pre-war designs!

Look at Germany, though. They didn't go from Ju-87 to Me-262, in fact. The Ju-87 is actually a perfect example of what Confed's doing with old planes. The Ju-87 should have really been replaced around 1939/40. It did a fairly good job in Poland, where its primary adversary was a fighter as old as the Ju-87. But already against Britain, it did terribly. Yet, against Russia, it was once again the primary ground support bomber. And they simply couldn't replace it - as far as I know, the Stuka just kept on flying right until the end of the war. The reason was that switching a factory from producing the Ju-87 to another aircraft would mean at least several weeks, possibly two or three months without any production in that factory at all. This was something they simply couldn't afford. And it's the same with every major Axis aircraft - the Zero was state-of-the-art in 1939, but when the war ended in 1945, it was inferior to every Allied fighter it went up against. And yes, there were several planes in development that were meant to replace it - but almost until the very end, such projects kept getting delayed by that troublesome need to pause production to alter the production lines. The same with the Bf-109 - while the FW-190 had gone into production, the Bf-109 still kept on being produced, because they came from different factories and used different engines, and switching the factories from Bf-109 to FW-190 was simply out of the question. The Me-262, meanwhile, barely went into production at all.

One of the factors that caused such delays was the complication of the machines being produced. Back in WWI, you could retool a furniture factory to produce airframes. During WWII, this was no longer possible - planes had become too complicated, they required specialised machinery and specialised, skilled workers. In addition, because of their complexity, planes took a lot longer to test - again, in WWI, there were planes that went from the drawing board to the frontline in the space of a few months. In WWII, it took several months, sometimes more than a year, just to get to the prototype. If the prototype was troublesome, it then took several months of trials to work out all the problems. So what if the Me-262 prototype first flew in 1942 or so? It didn't appear on the frontlines until two years later, and even had D-Day been delayed for two or three years, it probably never would have replaced the Me-109 and the FW-190.

Now, if that was the case in WWII, imagine how much worse it is now - how long has it been since the F-22 was first conceived? More than a decade now. Of course, during a war, the development time would be cut down dramatically - but the truth is, during a war, the US would be churning out old F-14s, F-15s, F-16s and F-18s, and the F-22 would keep on getting delayed in favour of yet another upgrade for the older fighters. Particularly since today, the possibilities for upgrades are far greater, because planes have become even more complex. During a war, when your most important concern is to keep production higher than daily losses, would you really care about how old the F-14 airframe is? As long as you can keep replacing its onboard systems...
 
That's one thing that I find kinda odd, the fact that one way or another, most WC craft are ancient... With the exception of the Rapier in WC1, the Epee, Crossbow and Morningstar in WC2, Excalibur in WC3, Wraith in Academy and, finally, Bearcat and Dragon in WC4, all other fighter/bomber craft around the Kilrathi war period are supposed to be decades, or even centuries old. (Yes, WC4 is after the war, but it's close enough).

It's funny because as far as we know, technology evolves really fast during major wars, and it's usually a lot cheaper to make whole new combat fighter models than retrofitting the new tech. I'm not talking about Capships, obviously, because it's a completely different thing. I'm refering mostly to the ships we fly.

OF course, we're talking about the 27th century, but there is no reason why those factors should have changed. I don't question the "truth" of that fact within the games, I won't dispute it as a part of the canon, but it is interesting that writers had the extra effort of making the fighters and bombers so damned old, because, otherwise, most people would assume that the Arrow, Sabre, Broadsword, Hellcat, and so on are fairly recent ships, instead of ancient machines.

I agree with Quarto, you are thinking too much as though Confed was on the winning side which, after the loss of the Tiger's Claw, i see no definitive proof of. It seemed like the Concordia was constantly on the run (she was heavily damaged and was running from a cruiser), until they reached Caernaven, and at the end of WC2, no matter whether your on the winning path or the losing one, the Confed 6th Fleet will be destroyed and the Concordia will retreat.

In WC3, it becomes more and more aparent right up until Tolwyn tells you himself... though he does say that Confed has been losing the war this past year, my guess is that they still had been losing it, but just not as badly and up until that point, there was hope of turning it around.

But cheaper or not, when you are in a despirate situation, the quicker and more logical solution is to retro fit what you have then try to rush something brand new into production.
 
Yes, sheer quantity is another thing. Basically, Confed could not keep up the number of fighters in the field if they decomissioned everything that was obsolete--they simply kept using what they had as long as it was serviceable unless the survivability rate got too low due to being outclassed by the Kilrathi. That's why the Scimitar, the slowest non-bomber we ever get to fly, is still in service when the Rapier II is being brought in, despite being inferior (or at best equal) to the Raptor in just about every combat stat except for pitch rate.
 
Yes, sheer quantity is another thing. Basically, Confed could not keep up the number of fighters in the field if they decomissioned everything that was obsolete--they simply kept using what they had as long as it was serviceable unless the survivability rate got too low due to being outclassed by the Kilrathi. That's why the Scimitar, the slowest non-bomber we ever get to fly, is still in service when the Rapier II is being brought in, despite being inferior (or at best equal) to the Raptor in just about every combat stat except for pitch rate.

Well the Raptor is a heavy fighter, the Rapier was medium... medium fighters are designed for specific tasks. They're designed to do a specific job, medium fighters arent supposed to be stronger then Heavy fighters. When the Epee came out... you wouldnt want that to be stronger then a saber. Also, what you mentioned was true about decoming ships with low survivability... i think thats why the Talon was retired... why they were sold to pirates instead of scrapped though is beyond me...
 
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