Nephilim Remodels

[Dark Sentinel]

EMERGENCY RESURFACE!
... no time to explain, just escape, retreat, regroup and run in fear!

These are 2k maps. Presumably can be shrinked down to 1k. Polycounts didn't change during this year.

 

[Quarto]

Looking good, but... have you thought about doing a more prominent specular map for these? I vaguely recall the WCP manual describing the Nephilim ships as having a mother-of-pearl quality to them. Naturally, back in 1997, there wasn't much of a possibility of having shiny ships in the game, but it would be very interesting to see how that could work out today for the bugs.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Well, spec and stuff really depends on the engine I use. And well, even if these ships are left as is - I'll probablt mess more with specular and bump if I ever decide to make, like, a wallpaper. Now I just wanted to show off finished diffuse.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I sort of expect someone of you to say "you're doing it wrong" and well, I expect myself to return in a year with finished textures. And, like, in 20 years I'll finish all the remodels, yay.
But ahem, anyway. Remora, the argueably most useless fighter. Sliiiightly over 1k triangles. The mesh may require additional tweaks, but in very general I'm happy with the overall shape.

 

[Quarto]

I definitely like the shape! Granted, looking at the sketch of the Ray and Remora from the WCPedia, you could make the shape more complicated still... but don't . For the Remora, this level of detail is already excessive, though very nice to see.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Okay, update. Long story short: yellow sis' exported for use in Homeworld: Remastered. Still requires tweaks, I'm not 100% happy, neither I'm sure about how much wet does it look.
Though HWRM lighting produces weird results sometimes.

Oh yeah. These are 1024x1024 maps. 2k would be a sort of overkill and the difference won't be that visible anyway.

 

[DefianceIndustries]

I'm not 100% happy, neither I'm sure about how much wet does it look.

I like the shininess (specularity) of the smooth dark patches, especially in the first image. It looks like a beetle's shell which, to me at least, seems like a safe direction for the Nephilim...

 

[Quarto]

Yes. Yes. I am pleased. Can we please get these into WCP/SO as well?

 

[DefianceIndustries]

Yes. Yes. I am pleased. Can we please get these into WCP/SO as well?

If Dark Sentinel is willing to collaborate/donate, I can slice them up and put them into the MUP. Interested?

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I'm in, but these models are a sort of "uselessly highpoly". Manta is 2600+, Devil Ray is over 3700 polies. I guess you can try cutting down some details, though.
*me laughs* ... and I wanted them to be used in Saga at some point. Oh well.

 

[Quarto]

Oh, that's not too bad. 3700 polys should work, if you cut the ship up into three parts. 2600 should fit in just two parts. I mean, yeah, it is sufficiently high-poly that neither mesh will work "out of the box", but overall, they should work.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I sort of remember DefianceIndustries saying somewhere that these models should be capped like 2500 polies, no more.
Or am I wrong? Or t'was some other guy? Or whatever.

 

[L.I.F.]

I sort of remember DefianceIndustries saying somewhere that these models should be capped like 2500 polies, no more.
Or am I wrong? Or t'was some other guy? Or whatever.

First of all, really awesome work here! As for the poly capping, we start having issues from 60k polys and more. Other troubles seems to appear too with some models, though if you got it to work in HWRM already, the specific issue I am thinking about should not appear at all. So, yeah, if we can tinker the FX for their shots, the fighter seems to be already good for integration. Just for curiosity, did you do the integration through the good old CFHod and did you use RODOH/HODOR afterwards?

In any case, from what I'm seeing, we could definitely work with that if you are OK to lend us the models/textures.

BTW, if you want and if @DefianceIndustries and @Lunawolf242 don't have issues with it, I could invite you to the conv' about the mod. Maybe you could give us a fresh opinion on the issue we have as of now. ^^

 

[Quarto]

I sort of remember DefianceIndustries saying somewhere that these models should be capped like 2500 polies, no more.
Or am I wrong? Or t'was some other guy? Or whatever.

No, you're right, there is a cap for models in WCP/SO. And the cap is actually closer to around 1500 polys. The trick is that WCP/SO allows ships to be built from multiple models, where each model is a part of the whole. This, of course, is how turrets and capship components are handled, but also other things - for instance, the rotating pods on some WCP fighters. This mechanism therefore allows us to import ships with a much bigger poly count. Of course, we don't know how the game will behave if there are dozens of ships like this flying about, but hey, maybe it will still be fine.

Oh, and @L.I.F. above must clearly be talking about the Homeworld mod. We must be careful not to get confused about which game we're talking about .

 

[L.I.F.]

No, you're right, there is a cap for models in WCP/SO. And the cap is actually closer to around 1500 polys. The trick is that WCP/SO allows ships to be built from multiple models, where each model is a part of the whole. This, of course, is how turrets and capship components are handled, but also other things - for instance, the rotating pods on some WCP fighters. This mechanism therefore allows us to import ships with a much bigger poly count. Of course, we don't know how the game will behave if there are dozens of ships like this flying about, but hey, maybe it will still be fine.

Oh, and @L.I.F. above must clearly be talking about the Homeworld mod. We must be careful not to get confused about which game we're talking about .

Oh, yeah, sorry, that's indeed what I was talking about, especially as the ship was already showcased with the HWRM engine and Defiance is also working on that mod. BTW, the multi-mesh trick is also how we got around the poly limit on the software used for integration, though we are now facing additional issues.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Well.
First: glad you like it
Second: while I'm at it, both Mantas imported as well and Devil Ray reexported. I'd say these models hate HWRM strong colored lighting. m01 aka Tanis works more or less okay, but m04, m13, m14 and most other have strong yellowish light and that causes models to look too much yellow.
Third: ... hey, you managed to confuse me, congats. xD
Okay, now individually.
As for WCPSO limits: okay, 1500. I can send the actual models to @DefianceIndustries for him to take a look and I shall check personally where I can cut down some more polies. That may be helpful for HWRM models as well, actually.
As for the mod: as I stated earlier in PM, I work slowly, really slowly. You'll have to deal with it. Next, integration: no, I didn't use ol' good HodEd. Just grabbed on of my daes from other projects and threw in new mesh, new textures and nodes.
Next: no, I won't share the models/textures. I mean, yes, earlier I suggested DefianceIndustries to have the meshes, but hell, I absolutely hate to share my sources. You can have the exported hods, though. I don't mind joining the team, but keep in mind I have other projects and well, I don't have a full grip on the insides of the HWRM and how it works.

Upd: HWRM engine was used just because it gives good results and it was the nearest engine around. And well, because I already have some experience with HW2 Classic and HWRM engines.

 

[DefianceIndustries]

As for WCPSO limits: okay, 1500. I can send the actual models to @DefianceIndustries for him to take a look and I shall check personally where I can cut down some more polies. That may be helpful for HWRM models as well, actually.

Thanks. I'll set up a PM so we can discuss. I actually try and keep my sections below 1200 triangles to be safe.

 

[L.I.F.]

As for the mod: as I stated earlier in PM, I work slowly, really slowly. You'll have to deal with it. Next, integration: no, I didn't use ol' good HodEd. Just grabbed on of my daes from other projects and threw in new mesh, new textures and nodes.
Next: no, I won't share the models/textures. I mean, yes, earlier I suggested DefianceIndustries to have the meshes, but hell, I absolutely hate to share my sources. You can have the exported hods, though. I don't mind joining the team, but keep in mind I have other projects and well, I don't have a full grip on the insides of the HWRM and how it works.

Heh, I know what it is to have other projects, I'm doing a Physics PhD right now. ^^ Plus, the incredible speed of the mod a few months ago was mainly because the Saga team offered us their meshes and textures so the hard work was already done. So, no, noone is pressing anyone to "work faster" or shit like that.

As for the final integration of the files themselves, I usually take care of that. The thing is, to get them ingame and playable, they need to be attached to a number of joints and other parameters linked to the engine positions, guns, collision mesh, etc., which can be added either in a usual 3D editor or in CFHod, the community software to get the .hod in HW2 (and working in HWRM). The good thing is that while the HW2 .hod can be opened and the contents extracted easily with CFHod, it's not really possible anymore with the .hod when they are turned to the new standard with HODOR, so your files should be safe from reverse-engineering. In any case, we are really not pressed by time right now, so if you want to keep the files "in house", so to say, I can - if you need it - give you a tutorial on how to use CFHod to get the proper nodes on the ship and how to turn the .hod in the unextractable format. I'd just need a list of the hardpoints and joints coded within the ship.

But, as I said, we are in a slow phase right now, with several items that make the updates much less frantic than back then, so you definitely won't find yourself pressed or anything.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I guess this thread now officially needs to be renamed into smth like "Dark Sentinel's WCP/SO Remodel Thread (ex- Nephilim Remodels).
Why remodel the bug ships, if you don't have a proper victim for them?
Tadah! Plunkett, a deadly opponent for your bug cruisers, 10005 polies right now. Though they say Plunkett has 22 laser turrets, I managed to find 21 and some of them are sure tachyons. Where's 22nd, I wonder.
Big heavy plasma turret and smaller particle turrets are slightly different.
Textures will be here later.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

Capship Missile 2.0.
I guess this goes into range of splotchy psychodelic. Hell, the original texture was just 64x64 and somehow it looked just awesome enough.
Now trying to make it look at least not worse using 64 times more pixels.
At least I like this version of texture more than the previous attempt.