LOAF Fixes an Amiga (or: ¡Hola Amigas!)

[Bandit LOAF]

Good morning everyone! It's very cool that so many Amiga veterans are here... I had no idea there were so many of you.

I heard back from the Amiga surgeon and his rates are entirely reasonable... I just have to remove the motherboard and mail it to New Zealand! So, look forward to seeing some pictures of Amiga guts this weekend. My big worry is remembering how to put it back together... but it should make for a good story, and that's what we're here for!

(I KNEW that joke about Australians at the start of the thread would come back to haunt me.)

(Yes, I know Australia and New Zealand are actually different countries.)

I talked to Hades on IRC last night and he linked me to this: http://aminet.net/package/game/demo/WingCommander

The Amiga Wing Commander demo! I had no idea it was available to the public. He said he'd tried to emulate it but that it didn't work... so it's up to me to try it on the real thing!

IF this is the demo I've heard of then it should be pretty cool. It's not playable but has 64-color graphics instead of 16... and it shows the Sivar dreadnaught from Secret Missions, which never made it to the Amiga!

The problem is that I have no idea how to get this demo from my PC or Mac to the Amiga. I tried burning CDs a few different ways and the Amiga didn't recognize any of them. I did test its drive by loading some of my proper CD32 discs, which showed up just fine.

I've read online that you need to burn at very slow speeds, 2x or so, to get a CD32 to read CR-Rs... unfortunately, my burner won't go below 10x. So I'll have to experiment with different methods in the hopes of finding something the Amiga can read (I DID try downloading a CD32 ROM and then adding the wingcommanderdemo folder to the ISO... no luck there, either.)

Failing that, it sounds like there's a way to connect via null modem... if the Amiga has the right software for that onboard then maybe I can push the demo over from Karga. But I guess I'll have a few weeks to think about that...

I wonder why the ebay seller didn't know about that problem? Have you tested it with something other than WC?

From his pictures it looks like the sound wasn't hooked up to anything. I'm guessing the onboard sound just wasn't used with Video Toaster and that that's all it ever did. I thought about complaining but... eh, why bother. Best case scenario, Paypal gives me my money back and makes me destroy the Amiga and send them pictures and some guy in Pennsylvania is mad at me.

I tried the sound with Wing Commander and with a Workbench setting tool I discovered that lets you configure beeps, and both required me to turn my sound all the way up to hear anything... and Wing Commander was clearly distorted.

One important note: if you're unable to fix the A4000 audio problems you're not going to apreciate Amiga Wing Commander. The audio was the reason that so many people were able to play WC on an amiga 500 or 600.

No question, and it's absolutely the part I'm most excited about... so it was a real disappointment that I couldn't get right to it.

Thank you for all the background, though! Fascinating stuff, I didn't appreciate that these were DD disks instead of the three 1.44 meg disks I'm familiar with from the PC version. (By the way, I'm pretty sure Hades brought me the disks I'm using in the first place some years ago... so, thanks to him for that!)

I haven't decided what to do about the CD32 version yet. I know I can get it to run on this Amiga... but I have an actual CD32, too, waiting in the wings for when I get to the various consoles. (The history is murky, but apparently they were sold in test markets in the US and widely in Canada... and no one wants them, so they're actually pretty common.)

(Embarassingly, I also can't find my Wing Commander/Dangeous Streets CD. I ordered another one which is on its way from England.)

 

[Youngblood]

Ive been looking at CD32's as my dad gave mine away when I left home (so mad about that) but they seem to be very expensive on ebay now

 

[MartySheen]

What a cool project. My brother and I always wanted an Amiga when we were kids, but we had to make do with the old (but much loved) Commodore 64. To this day, I never did get an Amiga.

I thought about getting one on ebay many times but it just didn't seem worthwhile. On ebay uk there are at least 3 amiga specialist sellers I know of - these guys sell brand new amiga hardware (A1200 Magic Packs) and accessories.

One other thing id like to mention, tho I'm sure you're already aware of it - Amiga computers are about to make a return to the modern computer scene. Commodore USA will be launching the new Amiga line this year - http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Home.aspx

I watch this one with interest and might even think about getting an Amiga after all

 

[Worf]

Time to try some oldskool MOD files on that Amiga! (MOD files originated on Amiga, then got propagated to other platforms. I have some old MODs that are named Amiga-style (extension in front - MOD.some_mod_music).

Though, the problem might be finding ones that the Amiga can handle natively since everyone's MOD now includes more than 4 channels, more than 32 instruments, etc.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Some great news from Pix: he managed to run the Amiga demo in an emulator! Head over to Pix's Origin Adventures, which you should be checking every morning anyway, to read more: http://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/wing-commander-amiga-demo/

No luck getting the files to the Amiga here, though, and my stack of coasters with 400kb Wing Commander Amiga demos on them is growing in leaps and bounds. After trying to get it to read PC diskettes and a number of different CDs I finally gave in and ordered a null modem cable. Once the Amiga (who still needs a name!) comes back from New Zealand I'll use Karga to push the demo across the old fashioned way.

I don't have much to report. I did also test a joystick with the Amiga and it worked great:

Unfortunately (or fortunately for my wallet?) the Amiga never got a true "flight stick."

Which is honestly surprising, since it can share joysticks with a host of early consoles (Atari, Genesis, C64, etc.) and that massive collection includes some truly crazy things... like a joystick shaped like the alien from Alien!

(Buy your own Xenomorph Joystick: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boxed-Vintage-Alien-Joystick-Amiga-Atari-CPC-many-others-/120815140929)

Yet no one thought to make one that looks like part of a real airplane.

I haven't decided what to do, but I may go with the simple "Competition Pro" ball joystick, if for no other reason than they're readily available and that's what's pictured on the Wing Commander Amiga launch icon.

The Amiga gets disconnected and stripped down to the motherboard this weekend! Stay tuned for that.

Though, the problem might be finding ones that the Amiga can handle natively since everyone's MOD now includes more than 4 channels, more than 32 instruments, etc.​

​

The real problem is that the sound doesn't work right now. ​

 

[capi3101]

...Once the Amiga (who still needs a name!)...

Are you looking for suggestions?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Yeah, absolutely!

 

[Youngblood]

I would say someting to do with WC1 as its the only game on the Amiga.

 

[-danr-]

Halcyon!

 

[-danr-]

...or a leftfield nod to the producer, "Commodore Nick"...!

 

[capi3101]

I would say someting to do with WC1 as its the only game on the Amiga.

WC1, or the WC1 era? WC1 era, I'd go with "Thor", in honor of Operation Thor's Hammer, though "Halcyon" is a good one. Or, if you want to do something backhanded with the Kilrathi, you could call it "Fleatrap"...

I would say someting to do with WC1 as its the only game on the Amiga.

The only WC game on the Amiga, anyway...there were quite a few games produced for the Amiga, IIRC.

 

[-danr-]

Looking forward to hearing about the differences in gameplay you find, I haven't played the Amiga version for about 18 years as when I switched over to PC I never looked back. LOAF should be able to spot the subtle changes more than anybody, aside from the obvious pallette differences, I seem to recall a different batch of sound effects, and in cockpit view the hand on the flightstick stays static, rather than moving with your commands.

 

[Quarto]

It's an Amiga. Given the meaning of the word, there is only one appropriate WC1 name. This Amiga should be the one they call Angel!

 

[Dondragmer]

(Although Amiga Wing Commander does give you the option to start Secret Missions with a note that it’ll be available soon… and Pelling says in interviews at the time that he’s going to be porting the mission disks.)

Does that imply that you would simply swap to a 'Secret Missions' data disk and run it with the existing WC1 Amiga executable? If so, is there any potential for adapting the data files from the DOS version?

1. Does the Amiga version still contain files like Briefing.000, Module.000, etc.?
2. If these files exist, are they identical to their DOS equivalents, or do they differ in a consistent way (like big-endian to little-endian)?
3. Initially I'd just duplicate the graphic files for the ships (so make the Venture use Exeter graphics, Sivar use Fralthi graphics), but if you got the other steps working, you'd want to duplicate the 256-to-16-color conversion.

If this were remotely feasible, I'm sure someone would have done it by now... but we can dream.

Also, Pix's video of the WC1 demo shows bullet holes in the Hornet's new sliding canopy around 1:50. Do they show up in the final game if you take enough damage? Do the ships also reverse into the hangar bay (which actually makes a lot of sense)?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I know what you're thinking: an update on Saturday night?! Don't you write these at work to kill time? Shouldn't you be out partying with supermodels?! The answer to all three questions is yes, but this has been such an eventful night in classic Wing Commander machine-ing that I decided to go ahead and write a quick update now.

Thanks for the name suggestions! I'm really not sure what to go with, but I'll make a decision soon. Other ideas, from Twitter for the record: F-36, Amigo, The Behemoth, Eagle-1, Pathetic Insect and Hamburger Inferno. I do think the Amiga is female? Bertha was a girl for obvious reasons and Karga was male because Kilrathi ships are.

So, the Amiga's first surgery was this morning. My father, who has working eyes, helped strip it down to remove the main board. The board will be shipped to New Zealand on Tuesday for repair and if we're lucky it'll be back here in about a month.

The procedure went well! The person who does the audio repairs was kind enough to send me a step-by-step list which was very useful. I took some high resolution photos of the process, which you can find here: https://www.wcnews.com/loaf/photos/karga/amigasurgery/

I made some interesting discoveries:

- There were two "Zorro III" expansion boards. Zorro was the Amiga's much-cooler-named equivalent of a PCI slot. My Amiga had video editing equipment: a "Video Toaster 4000" and a "Kitchen Sync" card. I probably won't put these back in because... as fun as it is to say I own a Video Toaster, I will never, ever use it.

- The Amiga 4000 keeps its processor on a special expansion board... and this one had been upgraded! The original A3640 board had been removed and replaced with something called a "Warp Engine" which has the same processor but adds slots for more RAM (128 megs, in this case... WAY more than the 18 megs the machine was originall designed to support.) This was great news, because the repair person had said that I should send the A3640 in as well since it had a capacitor that also goes bad... but the Warp Engine doesn't have that problem!

- It has two IDE hard drives. The one on top is 1.2 gigs and I can't see the label on the lower one.

- The seller was right, this Amiga was taken care of. The famously corroding original battery had been replaced and the insides actually looked immaculate.

Here's a quick cell phone shot of the problem area:

I'm not sure you can tell from this picture, but at least one leaky capacitor was clearly visible. I'm sure you can see it in the HD shots! Amusingly (to me, anyway) the audio chip that generates the amazing Wing Commander music is actually named Paula!

For future reference (possibly by me in a month) here are the instructions sent to me for removing an Amiga 4000's main board:

1. Remove the plastic front bezel by compressing the clips on the inside of the metal front panel, being careful as they're brittle
2. Remove the metal frame containing the floppy drive and CDROM drive; unplug hard drive and floppy drive ribbon cables from the main board plus the power supply plug
3. Remove the hard drive frame at the centre rear (4 screws)
4. Remove the Zorro riser top metal support (2 screws) and also remove any Zorro cards
5. Remove the Zorro riser board by unplugging it, it takes some force as the connectors will be tight
6. I think you have to remove the Zorro card frame faceplate at the rear of the computer (1 screw)
7. Remove the CPU board, depending on what model, it might be mounted on 4 white plastic supports which will unclip
8. Remove the 2 screw locks either side of the rear serial port connector, leave all other connector screwlocks in place
9. Remove the LED plugs at the front of the main board - tape the three connectors together so the order and polarity doesn't get messed up, and mark which way it came out
10. Remove all the screws in the mainboard (I think there's 6) and the board should lift up front first and out of the chassis

The hard part is going to be putting it back together!

I decided to go ahead and plug my CD32 in to make sure it hadn't exploded during years of storage. Great news on that front, everything worked fine. Just need that copy of Wing Commander CD32 to show up... US/UK customs has been insanely slow for me lately.

A few more interesting notes...

CMDBob on IRC found me a useful tool for null-modeming files to the Amiga: http://www.amigaforever.com/ae/ - sounds like that'll be a good solution for transferring the Wing Commander I demo once the motherboard comes home!

$9 (the most anyone has ever spent on the WC1 demo?) got me a null modem cable from Amazon. And look when it arrives... it's going to be one sexy Valentines Day at the LOAF household! (Actually, I have dental work scheduled for Valentines Day, which was in no way something I did to intentionally reference 30 Rock.)

Speaking of the demo, Cpl Hades found a way to play the whole thing in an emulator. "execute rundemo" should play the whole thing!

And still speaking of the demo: I happened across this Usenet post from 1992 about how ANGRY everyone was upon seeing it: http://groups.google.com/group/comp...read/thread/ad090b6e4b1e9bff/2ecbce60462d33a0 So the next time I tell you the internet of the past was enlightened and kind... I am lying. Huh.

So, is that it? Project on hold for a month, you're not going to have LOAF to Amiga around anymore? Actually, the stars have aligned and I'm happy to announce that following in Pix's footsteps I have...

... purchased a Forte VFX-1 virtual reality helmet! You can read about Pix's first experiences here: http://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/system-shock-on-the-vfx-1/ and I just couldn't let him have all the fun. Actually, I saw sold the minute I learned I had an excuse to buy one: the card officially supports yaw movement in several Wing Commander games. That's enough to warrant inclusion in my setup, although the REAL prize should be using it to 'look around' in Wings of Glory!

Now, yes the use in Wing Commander is fairly limited... and yes the 3D aspect is useless to a cyclops such as myself... but it's just too darn cool looking to pass up. And WoG, one of my favorite games, fully supports them.

It's going to require a major structural change to Karga. The vaunted and valuable LAPC-I is out and will need to be replaced by an external MT-32 (luckily I have two ready to go!)... and I'll need to put a PCI video card with a feature connector in my last available slot. And of course my web of various external connections will need to change... but it'll be fun to figure that all out in the coming weeks! And come on, it's a freaking VR helmet! What is more 1990s than that?

Here's a picture from the auction. Everything was in mint condition, unopened:

I'd actually been working behind the screens to try and get one of these the last few weeks. I had a heartbreaking encounter over at the VFX Yahoo group where someone offered to GIVE ONE AWAY to the first person from the UK who responded. I replied first and I should have just given him Hades' address but I didn't think of it... so it went to someone else.

Then someone offered to sell me one, but shipped from Canada with an entire computer attached... and I had to make an offer. I was going to say $400 for the system and hope that was enough when I happened to search eBay and find one listed UNDER THE WRONG NAME! It was listed as a "VFX-I" (eye, not one) and so it didn't go for an insane amount of money. Burned off Saturday waiting to snipe it and I got lucky!

So: VFX-1 coming in the mail and Karga will re-enter our story!

Finally, I'd heard that the VFX-1 had a cameo in an episode of X-Files. I decided to go through my DVDs and see if I could find it. Interestingly it wasn't in EITHER of the Virtual Reality-related episodes... instead, it shows up in the Lone Gunmen's origin story, "Unusual Suspects." Screenshot!:

Read more about the VFX-1: http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/iis/vfx1.html

Does that imply that you would simply swap to a 'Secret Missions' data disk and run it with the existing WC1 Amiga executable? If so, is there any potential for adapting the data files from the DOS version?

Unfortunately, as best I can tell the data files are completely different. But I will try and e-mail Nick Pelling to see if he ever did any work on Secret Missions. (We actually had a great e-mail correspondence for a time some years back, he's a very nice man.)

Also, Pix's video of the WC1 demo shows bullet holes in the Hornet's new sliding canopy around 1:50. Do they show up in the final game if you take enough damage? Do the ships also reverse into the hangar bay (which actually makes a lot of sense)?

Gah! I will tell you in a month.

 

[Youngblood]

[quote="capi3101, post: 373641, member:The only WC game on the Amiga, anyway...there were quite a few games produced for the Amiga, IIRC.[/quote]

sorry I did mean only WC game

 

[Youngblood]

hmm that didnt work As for the bullet holes and reversing that didnt happen

 

[Dondragmer]

hmm that didnt work As for the bullet holes and reversing that didnt happen

Having become curious about those tiny scratches, I looked at the DOS files in HCL's viewer, 'wcnav'. The file 'scramble.vga' contains the damage graphics. It includes two 'shattered glass' pictures, at locations 300,137 and 300,444. So, they were included but never used in the DOS version, adapted for the 64-color Amiga palette and used in the demo, and apparently discarded again for the complete Amiga game.

 

[-danr-]

Having become curious about those tiny scratches, I looked at the DOS files in HCL's viewer, 'wcnav'. The file 'scramble.vga' contains the damage graphics. It includes two 'shattered glass' pictures, at locations 300,137 and 300,444. So, they were included but never used in the DOS version, adapted for the 64-color Amiga palette and used in the demo, and apparently discarded again for the complete Amiga game.

View attachment 5472View attachment 5473

Great find. I wonder why they never made the final cut, after all, we see 'shattered' cockpit glass in WCIII and IV. Good work anyway.

I'm not sure you can tell from this picture, but at least one leaky capacitor was clearly visible. I'm sure you can see it in the HD shots! Amusingly (to me, anyway) the audio chip that generates the amazing Wing Commander music is actually named Paula!

Can't see the leaky capacitor from here, but the rest of that board and the inside case look immaculate. That's not just been done with a quick vacuum clean, I think you've actually got a reasonably 'low milage' system there.

... purchased a Forte VFX-1 virtual reality helmet! You can read about Pix's first experiences here: http://www.pixsoriginadventures.co.uk/system-shock-on-the-vfx-1/ and I just couldn't let him have all the fun. Actually, I saw sold the minute I learned I had an excuse to buy one: the card officially supports yaw movement in several Wing Commander games. That's enough to warrant inclusion in my setup, although the REAL prize should be using it to 'look around' in Wings of Glory!

Heh, looks like an interesting piece of kit, be sure to let us know how much fun it is, I've always wanted a VR helmet but never wanted to pay for one.

 

[hardwired]

Looking forward to hearing about the differences in gameplay you find, I haven't played the Amiga version for about 18 years as when I switched over to PC I never looked back. LOAF should be able to spot the subtle changes more than anybody, aside from the obvious pallette differences, I seem to recall a different batch of sound effects, and in cockpit view the hand on the flightstick stays static, rather than moving with your commands.

Actually those differences only apply to 512k chip ram+512k fast ram setup (regular a500 with only 512k upgrade). Those with at least 1mb chip ram would get more cockpit gfx (such as comm's face gfx) and those with 1.5 mb of total ram and above would get the all animation and gfx available (such as the moving hand).
I might be wrong regarding the 1mb chip ram setup (A600/A500+), but I know that the RAM available made the only difference. Other than that it was exactly the same game (apart from audio experience and the rotating ships on the arcade lookalike flightsim)...

It's a real shame, that back then, not everyone experienced Amiga WC at its best. But now you should, even if you use an emulator option...