Let the War Games Begin
- Thread starter pygmypiranha
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pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
I think that there might be a possibility that the TARAWA could out fight the CLAW, I mean in WING COMMANDER: END RUN the TARAWA was able to do so much damage and took a huge pounding. I feel that Jason could certainly have a pretty good chance. The Vic is certainly not a match.
t.c.cgi
Vice Admiral
As I recall the damage they did was to targets based on the moon, and that was done by marines. And she had the help of a destroyer or two didn't she? That would easily make up for her lack of guns for the first battle or two. When the destroyers were out the Tarawa was almost destroyed, and to their luck the Concordia jumped in. From after she finished her 'mission' to when she was rescued she was in retreat. I'd hardley call that a strong ship. However the Tarawa did make up in maneuverability and speed if I remember correctly, which is the only reason she got home at all.
When a carrier can simultaneously launch a strike against you consisting of more fighters than your entire fighter compliment, plus keep more fighters on defense than your entire fighter compliment, then you have a problem that even Blair would be hard pressed to overcome.
A commander would have to be an idiot to bungle a lead like that, and given the combat record of the Tiger's Claw, I doubt ANY of the captains she may have had would qualify as an idiot. Whether or not they were all military geniuses I can't say, but they almost certainly weren't stupid.
Plus, I suspect that if Halcyon were around, he'd be more than capable of making up for any deficiencies the captain may have had.
A commander would have to be an idiot to bungle a lead like that, and given the combat record of the Tiger's Claw, I doubt ANY of the captains she may have had would qualify as an idiot. Whether or not they were all military geniuses I can't say, but they almost certainly weren't stupid.
Plus, I suspect that if Halcyon were around, he'd be more than capable of making up for any deficiencies the captain may have had.
Operative word there is *might*.
Remember that the TC carries more fighters than the other two carriers combined, PLUS its designed to operate against a wide variety of targets in all sorts of situations, meaning that the ship is probably better armored and protected than a carrier of its size might otherwise be.
I don't think there's any doubt that the pilots and crew of all three ships are pretty high quality. Pulling Blair and Maniac out of the roster (as both of them served on both the TC and the Victory), you've still got a respectable crew on all three ships.
The Tarawa is probably the most dubious, since its crew was basically embarking on a suicide run (although command apparently didn't make this common knowledge when they found the crew for it). Command seems to have wanted at least a good quality crew for it, however, and Bear and Doomsday are good leads.
The Victory appears to have been the storing house for Tolwyn's select group of high quality pilots. From their descriptions, a number of Blair's wingmen may have had some rough edges that didn't agree with earlier squadrons, but they were all generally good quality, and Tolwyn was apparently planning on them shepherding his pet project.
The Tiger's Claw appears to have been one of the choice postings throughout the navy, which is generally something that is only going to attract the highest quality pilots. In addition, the combat record of the pilots on the Claw speaks for itself, with an excellent record against fairly high odds. Iceman, Angel, Paladin, Spirit, Hunter, and others, all served distinguished tours on board this ship.
I agree that Pilots and maintenance crews determine the success of the ships and I also agree that the flight rosters on the Victory and TC were both pretty good. I have to give the edge to the Victory though because of the newer fighters and refits to the carrier it's self. Also I think Eisan was a much better flight boss than Gerald.
I just flew through WC1 and secret missions again and I am sigularly unimpressed with some of the TC pilots. Namely Angel, Iceman and Hunter. Angel doesn't know enough to get out of her own way and spent alot of time running into me and the ships we were escorting. Hunter and Iceman both have a real problem following orders. When I tell them to break and attack they sit on my wing and when I tell them to stay in formation they do it for about three seconds before going after my target and trying to steal my kill. I was much happier just sending these three home as soon as I could. The Vicotry pilots were much better wingmen by far.
The Tarawa on the other hand had some good pilots but like Junior said it's mainly a suicide run. Not really a good gauge of the ship and her capabilities.
I just flew through WC1 and secret missions again and I am sigularly unimpressed with some of the TC pilots. Namely Angel, Iceman and Hunter. Angel doesn't know enough to get out of her own way and spent alot of time running into me and the ships we were escorting. Hunter and Iceman both have a real problem following orders. When I tell them to break and attack they sit on my wing and when I tell them to stay in formation they do it for about three seconds before going after my target and trying to steal my kill. I was much happier just sending these three home as soon as I could. The Vicotry pilots were much better wingmen by far.
The Tarawa on the other hand had some good pilots but like Junior said it's mainly a suicide run. Not really a good gauge of the ship and her capabilities.
pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
The captains make it happen
In Fleet Action we see what the Tarawa is capable of in the couple of actions that it is in. But I do agree with what you all have been saying. The Tiger Claw is so much better of a carrier and would be much better equiped to handle even both of the two light carriers attacking it. With its large number of fighter craft and offensive/defensive capabilities I am sure that the Claw would even be able to somewhat take on the CONCORDIA (from WC2). What I was thinking when I wrote the question is that the commanders truly make or break a ship. Though the Tarawa is small, Bear did a lot of thinking diving into a star and swinging around a planet to escape the cats. The Victory could have been killed several times over, but due to the actions of her Captain and crew she survived. The captains make the ship, which is why I feel that a wargame would really be a interesting thing to watch between those three ships because I feel the captains would make it all very difficult for eachother.
In Fleet Action we see what the Tarawa is capable of in the couple of actions that it is in. But I do agree with what you all have been saying. The Tiger Claw is so much better of a carrier and would be much better equiped to handle even both of the two light carriers attacking it. With its large number of fighter craft and offensive/defensive capabilities I am sure that the Claw would even be able to somewhat take on the CONCORDIA (from WC2). What I was thinking when I wrote the question is that the commanders truly make or break a ship. Though the Tarawa is small, Bear did a lot of thinking diving into a star and swinging around a planet to escape the cats. The Victory could have been killed several times over, but due to the actions of her Captain and crew she survived. The captains make the ship, which is why I feel that a wargame would really be a interesting thing to watch between those three ships because I feel the captains would make it all very difficult for eachother.
pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
It most certainly is.
I say Eisan would beat the snot out of Gerald because Gerald proved he isn't open to listening to other people's opinions, especially if he thinks they are beneath him. If Paladin hadn't turned the strike team back from the bone head mission Gerald sent them on the Claw would have been toasted. Eisan on the other hand knows his people have a myriad of experiance to offer and though he doesn't always agree he atleast listens and conciders before making a bone head call. Track records don't mean squat to me. I've served in the RL military and I've seen Ensigns with more tactical skill and command ability than some Commanders with perfect "track records" who only have them because thier senior officers gave them glowing fitness reports so they would get promoted and off the ship they were on.
Yeah, Eisen did seem to know how to deal with people better. He was the one to comment about people only being promoted because of the people they know. And he was always, well, usually, willing to allow Blair to comment-since he realized that Blair was in the field, and could offer more insight.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
But if Gerald is a ConFleet Commander, he must have done enough things right to get there. Yeah, Eisen is a nice guy, but Gerald is a good enough commander to be the Claw's Captain after Sanski bites the dust. That has to account for a lot; The Claw already had a history by that point.
That's just your assumption.
Just because Eisen is a nice guy doesn't make him a better commander.
Good to know. I'm sure you're someone's overpaid boss.
Just because you're in the military, it doesn't make you William Manchester. Not to mention, you're comparing your own, most likely limited, experience in the military with that of a fictional character.
If you're protecting my country, I think you have better things to do than post here.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Actually, Gerald was never formally made captain of the Tiger's Claw -- he was replaced by Tolwyn fairly quickly after the Pilgrim Truth/Stars debacle....
Eisen is a competant commander -- according to the WCIV novel he literally 'wrote the book' on carrier operations...
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