Landing/Launching

[StarLight]

cap ships aren't km long are they? coz it does take about a couple of SECONDS flying over 'em at like 520 KPS !!!
what the heck?

 

[Wedge009]

I've never fully trusted the measurements. The Kilrathi dreadnought is big, but it doesn't feel like 22km long. The Prophecy engine improves the feel on distances.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Hey, I woke up at 6 AM on Sunday. Clearly I am insane. Or maybe just a bad smuggler. With some nice contraband. AHH!

A few points...

- The speeds of the fighters in WC are KPS reletive... in deep space, where it can get the right amount of hydrogen and doesn't have to make any turns, a Ferret can travel at 500 kilometers per second. Near a capital ship or in combat where there's less hydrogen, where turns must be made and there are other objects to be reletive to the speed is significantly less.

- Aside from Intrepid, all the ships had launch catapults. The only thing different was how the launch catapults were oriented.

- The Tiger's Claw's launch tubes are, indeed, in the 'arms' -- watch the Scimitars launch in most any episode of Wing Commander Academy.

- The Tiger's Claw was the first 'new' Bengal -- the original series (a smaller, 690 meter long variety of carrier) premiered with the TCS Bengal in 2619.

 

[Crusader11]

Not to mention, let's assume for the moment that the Ferret is mustering max speed at 520kps. 22KM @ 520KM/S = .042 sec for 22KM

If you 520KM each second, then 22KM is going to only be a fraction of that time.

So, even if the Kilrathi ships is really huge at 22KM, at that relative speed you should pass over in far less than the blink of an eye; only 42 milliseconds.

So, basically WC is unrealistic either way

 

[Wedge009]

LOAF already explained that ships will be slower near capships. And a Ferret does 500 kps.

 

[Chernikov]

Loaf: alright, so how are fighters transported from the main flight deck to the launch tubes, noting that the arms are probably too skinny to accomodate them?

As far as the debate with ship size, if they did the Dreadnought accurately, not only would it annihlate your FPS (probably just straight out crash the game) but living anywhere near one would be sorta hazardous to the health considering how many guns should be on there. I mean, the manual for WC1 has the 'Claw sporting a whole lot more than 8 dual lasers IIRC...

 

[Wedge009]

Which is why I say maybe 2-5 km is more 'realistic', not 22km.

 

[Earthworm]

It would be more realistic just because the engine couldn't handle that size?

Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. It doesn't matter anymore, because that number is accepted throughout the fan base and arguing weather it's accurate doesn't make sense.

 

[Wedge009]

Well, alright. I know the problem with the game engine, but it's just that the Midway is stated as nearly 2km and there was moaning about the costs, and the Tiamat was estimated to be 3km... Dunno where I got that, could be wrong... So just for comparison's sake, 22km is excessive. Plus there was the argument about the Midway being 200 000 tonnes and the KD being 290 000 tonnes.

Look at the Super Star Destroyer compared to the standard Imperial Star Destroyer. That beast was huge, and that's only 12km vs 1.5k. And yes, I know comparisons accross sci-fi universes aren't accurate, but it's just a point.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Wedge009
Well, alright. I know the problem with the game engine, but it's just that the Midway is stated as nearly 2km and there was moaning about the costs, and the Tiamat was estimated to be 3km...

The Kilrathi are a race that centers on conflict. I'm sure that most cats wouldn't have a problem with spending so much on few huge ships. Especially since those ships are capable of defeating entire small fleets by themselves. And the Kilrathi were already thinking about the Mantu, just like when they built the Hakaga class, which BTW was two times the size of previous Kilrathi and Confed carriers.

So just for comparison's sake, 22km is excessive.

Thrak likes to show off his power. Besides, other than the Tiamat (which is around 2 miles, so about 3 km long) the Midway shouldn't be compared to the Vorghath as it's nothing more than a carrier. And if you really want to compare sizes, the Confed class dreadnought it only around 1 km long, and the second Sivar was only around 400 meters.

Plus there was the argument about the Midway being 200 000 tonnes and the KD being 290 000 tonnes.

And whenever that argument comes up, someone reminds that the Vorghath looks like a skeleton, with plenty of empty space between it's structure.

Look at the Super Star Destroyer compared to the standard Imperial Star Destroyer. That beast was huge, and that's only 12km vs 1.5k. And yes, I know comparisons accross sci-fi universes aren't accurate, but it's just a point.

A completly pointless point at that. Yes, comparisons between universes aren't accurate, and comparing the size of the Vorghath to the previous dreadnoughts is pointless. Before the Hakaga no one though of building such huge carriers (which were nearly as large as the Midway) but they were built, and few years later the size for Confed heavy carriers is similar to that (the Vesuvius being around 1,400 km, and the Midway slightly over 1,800 km). And if there ever will be another WC game we might see carriars even larger than that. Then there was the Behemoth. Roughly half the size of the 22 km long Vorghath, and it's so much larger than the 700 m long Ranger class that it's scarry.

And dreadnoughts have varied a lot between their sizes over the WC games. Starting with the Sivar, like I mentioned above, being only slightly longer than 400 meters, then we got the Confederation class wich is around 1 km in length, than the much larger Vorghath and later the Tiamat. Then came the WC movie with dreadnoughts over 1 km that came before the Sivar

 

[Wedge009]

<Don't-boss-me-about tone> I will not go into a protracted argument with you!
<Whimpering> Cos I don't have the stamina for it!

Anyway...

Originally posted by Earthworm
Then there was the Behemoth. Roughly half the size of the 22 km long Vorghath, and it's so much larger than the 700 m long Ranger class that it's scarry.

Where'd you find that out? I know you can't discern much from FMV, but in the scene where the Behemoth jumps out with the Victory, the Behemoth looked huge, while the FMV of the Kilrathi fleet only had the dreadnought looking about four times bigger than the surrounding capships. Yes, I know it's a matter of perspective. BTW, where did the "Vorghath" name come from? Lemme guess, the novels? That'd be right.

Originally posted by Earthworm
...and the second Sivar was only around 400 meters.

There was a second Sivar??? And where did you pull that figure? I may have read somewhere it was about 700m. Can't recall where.

 

[Earthworm]

Originally posted by Wedge009
Where'd you find that out? I know you can't discern much from FMV, but in the scene where the Behemoth jumps out with the Victory, the Behemoth looked huge, while the FMV of the Kilrathi fleet only had the dreadnought looking about four times bigger than the surrounding capships.

LOAF said, that someone from OSI told him that the Behemoth was around 11 km long. Second, the Vorghath does look huge in the cutscenes, maybe you're just going blind.

BTW, where did the "Vorghath" name come from? Lemme guess, the novels? That'd be right.

False Colors...

Originally posted by Earthworm
There was a second Sivar??? And where did you pull that figure? I may have read somewhere it was about 700m. Can't recall where.

The first Sivar class, from the movie is around 1 km in length, while the second one, from WC1 is smaller than that. The 400 m I've found on practicly every site that has the length of the Sivar.


[Edited by Earthworm on 11-15-2000 at 19:22]

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Not sure why they're calling it Vorghath -- which was the name of *a* dreadnought from False Colors. More likely, they are Hvar’kann class -- the name of Thrakhath's dreadnought from WC3. (A third possibility would be Vengeance of Vukar Tag class, from the Card Game).

KILRATHI CAPITAL SHIP LENGTHS

Hvar'Kann class Dreadnought - 22,000 meters
Battleship - 3,500 meters
Hakaga class Heavy Carrier - 1,580 meters
Snakeir class SuperDreadnought - 975 meters
Bhantkara class SuperCarrier - 920 meters
Sivar class Dreadnought (movie) - 825 meters
Shiraak class Carrier - 715 meters
Frigate - 620 meters
Fralthra class Cruiser - 612 meters
Snakeir class Carrier - 600 meters
Fralthi II class Cruiser - 550 meters
Heavy Destroyer - 530 meters
Fralthi class Cruiser (game) - 500 meters
Thrakhra class ConCom - 490 meters
Fralthi class Cruiser (movie) - 475 meters
Light Destroyer - 450 meters
Ralatha class Destroyer - 394.2 meters
Ralari class Destroyer (movie) - 385 meters
Ralari class Destroyer (game) - 344 meters
Transport (WC3) - 150 meters
Kamekh class Corvette - 135 meters
Corvette (wc3) - 110 meters
Dorkir class Transport - 104 meters
Sivar class Dreadnought (game) - 103 meters
Dorkathi class Transport - 95 meters
Lumbari class Transport - 68 meter

 

[TC]

Just wanted to point out, before someone started to complain... Ship lengths are not really to scale in any of the game engines...

TC

 

[Wedge009]

We know that. But thanks anyway.

 

[TC]

*SURE* Now that I've told you, you know! I bet, though, that you would have been the bastard that pointed out that it was all wrong.

 

[Wedge009]

I know for the simple fact that it's so obvious. I haven't the chance to do it yet, but I'll bet if you stick the dreadnought model from that B5 project in WCP/SO, it won't be as big as 22km.

Also, I mentioned before someone did a piccy of the Midway, WC4 Vesuvius, and SO Vesuvius in the WCP/SO engine. The two Vesuvius sure weren't the same. Then some had a discussion on what the plural Vesuvius is, considering male and female plurals in greek/latin/whatever languages.

 

[Quarto]

I'll bet if you stick the dreadnought model from that B5 project in WCP/SO, it won't be as big as 22km.

Could be arranged... after all, models can be scaled . I don't think anybody has ever tried using something that big, though.

The two Vesuvius sure weren't the same. Then some had a discussion on what the plural Vesuvius is, considering male and female plurals in greek/latin/whatever languages.

Hey, I remember that .

 

[Penguin]

It was me

 

[Chernikov]

Wedge - Im pretty sure what youre looking at was NOT the dreadnought, but just one of the arms off of it. I remember vaguely wondering if the carriers and whatnot could park inside the dreadnought the first time I saw the "invasion of Earth" cutscene.

LOAF: 103 meters for a DREADNOUGHT? One of the toughest, if not THE toughest, ships in the game, described as huge and even in-game larger that most capships IIRC? There might have been a zero dropped in there somewhere.