Kilrathi suicidal tendencies

Yes DH, but if a strakha was used as a suicidal craft, it would of course change its tatics...and pilot the pilot would need just to know how to fly straight.
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I'm not sayng that the kilrathi would use it against all confed capships, just the most powerful and defended targets, the ones they would be sure to loose lots of ships if they attack another way. It even wouldnt need to care about fighters, because it could attack undetected and destroy most, if not all fighters before they takeoff.

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Only a complete fool is absolutely sure about what he says
Are you absolutely sure about this?
Yes, i am...i mean...do'h
 
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Assuming he knows how to fly a ship in the first place. "You there! Put down that rake, and fly this here Strakha into battle...against a moving target...in space."
Yes I see your point.
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Ofcourse it would be a pilot that know what he is doing!
But it dont means that it would need to be an ace or something like that. I think any plebe in confed would be capable of doing it.
It would be less expensive than training a pilot to actually fight.
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Only a complete fool is absolutely sure about what he says
Are you absolutely sure about this?
Yes, i am...i mean...do'h
 
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You're quite wrong, Death's Head. All throughout WC2, the Strakha were trying to do to the Concordia what they did to the 'Claw. They weren't out there just to ambush Blair, you know (and nobody else ever saw them). It would appear that Jazz relayed detailed flight plans to the Kilrathi (ever wondered how it was that he showed up to help you against the Jalkehi in Heaven's Gate? I reckon he was just coming back from a little rendezvous), who then passed through Blair's patrol sector on their way to the Concordia. That makes perfect sense, since nobody would ever believe Blair. So even if the Strakha failed their mission, it was no risk to the Master Plan
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And in relation to the whole suicide fighter concept, why use cloaked ships? The Japanese had made the Baka, which was essentially a pilot-driven missile (they also had manned torpedoes... which originally were even supposed to have an ejection system of sorts, so the pilot could be... er... recycled
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). The Baka (I'm not sure if that's the actual name, btw) was strapped to a bomber, and released when they arrived near the target. Wouldn't that be a whole lot cheaper than cloaked fighters?
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However, note that all those fabulous contraptions that the Japanese came up with were only used when it became fully evident that they were going to lose the war. Thus, the Kilrathi would not create a special suicide fighter, because they have no need for one.
 
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Quarto: the Japanese suicide bomb you are looking for is the "Okha" (cherry blossom). I could get you the number and manufacturer if you want. It was basically a 1.25 ton (1200 kilo) bomb with a cockpit and three rocket engines strapped on the back. Released about sixty miles away to glide to target; rockets were only used in final dive to avoid AAA. The "baka" (stupid, crazy, moron, etc.) name came from American crewmen, for the obvious reason.

As for the debate about cloaked attack craft, the best bet would be to uncloak just long enough to fire the torp, after lock is achieved. A couple of strakahs escorting a skipper would be ideal also. However, with tech that can see cloaked ships (Dragon) which would probably have been improved and installed on most new capships, the debate should be pointless anyway.

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You deal death with your roars and your screams, your threats, your taunts, your overblown ego. I hand it out, one with the steel and the silence, the blackness around me, with a thought.
 
Okha, right. Thanks
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. I knew that Baka was the American name for it, but I had no idea about the proper, Japanese name.
But no, I think I'll do fine without the number & manufacturer
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Chernikov said:
However, with tech that can see cloaked ships (Dragon) which would probably have been improved and installed on most new capships, the debate should be pointless anyway.
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May I remind you that Dragons, and their technology weren`t exactly the most common thing in Confed at the time.
As for the Japanese Kamikaze pilots, if I remember correctly, they caused more panic than actual damage.
I think that with the available technologies in WC games, you can always find some unused tactic that if utilized properly, would otherwise win the battle for you. For instance: why not use the same tactic the Kilrathi employed when they destroyed the Tiger`s Claw? It was so easy, and the Claw was destroyed immediately. Another thing is: why not use cap ships laser battaries do destroy incoming misslies? Not to mention the fact that they don`t use cloak tech in Prophecy and SO (but that subject is being ground on another thread.
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I can think of a lot of other examples, but that`s quite enough to get my idea across.
The reason they didn`t use these strategies, is simply because it would make the game almost impossible to finish.
 
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I'm gonna count all the Stealths tonight, because now I wonder...

Anyway, the Japanese had several varieties of fighters built specifically for kamikaze missions... but, to note, none of them were successfull *at all* -- the minor victories of kamikaze aircraft were all inflicted by regular types of fighters
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Cricket said:
I could be worng but I thoght the Dragon could see other stealths because you had their IFF....
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There was no Dragon until WC4, that tatics as i said would be used during the war in WC2/WC3...
And they would use it only to destroy higly defended targets that would require them to lost lots of ships instead of just loosing one if they used a suicidal craft, dont you think? If they used it to attack the Victory for example?


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Only a complete fool is absolutely sure about what he says
Are you absolutely sure about this?
Yes, i am...i mean...do'h
 
I meant that the Dragon itself coudn't really see the stealths, you could only see them because you knew their IFF frequency, and could track that.
 
You can see the Arrows with the Dragon if I recall, if not, yea for Cricket.
What I'd like to know is can you see the wireframe of the Arrows in Orestes.
 
You can not see the cloaked arrows without the Dragon, although the IFF debate might still be valid. Who knows where those cloak units came from???

About the suicide craft: most of the failure of the Okha was not due to the lack of skill on the pilots part, or concept problems, but that the carrying bombers were often shot down before they were in range to release the manned bombs. When the specialized suicide craft were able to reach the ships they were actually quite effective - a carrier, even then, is a little hard to miss, and a single hit would often sink a destroyer or if well placed a cruiser. The only reason the converted kamikaze planes (often old-model zeros) were more effective was that there were a lot more of them.

Which brings us to another question: what type of damage would a Dralthi loaded with plasma or antimatter warheads (NOT torps) do when crashed into a capship. Replace one missile with a torp seeker (required to deal with phase shielding if I remember correctly) and the rest with just warheads, to the point where weight was equal to a full missile load. Totally indistinguishable from a normal Dralthi until it made a ten-second dive into your capship (faking a strafing run to lull you into a sense of semi-security), which promptly explodes...
The Dralthi is the Kilrathi equivalent of the Zero (cheap, common, not usually dangerous to anything larger than a medium bomber), and a half dozen "salted" among a space-superiority and strike squadron would be devestating.

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You deal death with your roars and your screams, your threats, your taunts, your overblown ego. I hand it out, one with the steel and the silence, the blackness around me, with a thought.

[This message has been edited by Chernikov (edited May 21, 2000).]
 
Yeah... I've never seen cloaked ships without a Dragon.
And of course, the iff codes that we capture would also include the pirate Arrows, since they seem to be working for the BL.

As for the Dralthi... well, one such "salted" fighter blows before reaching the target, and there goes the strike force.

And besides, aren't we forgetting something? The Japanese only started going kamikaze when their defeat became inevitable. The Kilrathi are not, at any point, actually losing (except in '54, but they seem to quickly get over that). How many times do I have to say this?
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What would be the point of throwing away fighters and pilots when you're winning anyway?
 
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Quarto said:
And besides, aren't we forgetting something? The Japanese only started going kamikaze when their defeat became inevitable. The Kilrathi are not, at any point, actually losing (except in '54, but they seem to quickly get over that). How many times do I have to say this?
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What would be the point of throwing away fighters and pilots when you're winning anyway?
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Like i sayd before, that tatic would only be used to attack important and highly defended targets. The ones that the kilrathi would be sure to risk lots of ships and loose many if they try to take it out with a regular attack. It would be just a matter of numbers, instead loosing 2 or 3 wings of fighters, loosing just one.

Chernikov said:
About the suicide craft: most of the failure of the Okha was not due to the lack of skill on the pilots part, or concept problems, but that the carrying bombers were often shot down before they were in range to release the manned bombs. When the specialized suicide craft were able to reach the ships they were actually quite effective - a carrier, even then, is a little hard to miss, and a single hit would often sink a destroyer or if well placed a cruiser.
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But a cloacked ship wouldnt be seem until it hit its target...

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Only a complete fool is absolutely sure about what he says
Are you absolutely sure about this?
Yes, i am...i mean...do'h

[This message has been edited by KillerWave (edited May 21, 2000).]
 
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And what would be the use of using a cloaked ship. It would be a lot cheaper to use non-cloaked ships in an attack force to destroy the caps (finally SOMEONE would be scared seeing a Dralthi. Pardon me, did hell just freeze over?
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) Wouldnt have to pay for the cloaks or the tekkies to maintain them, and a random Dralthi at full burner would be enough to throw the entire battlegroup into full alert.

Of course, using cloaked ships would work too, especially sending them in solo. A little expensive, but it would produce obscene amounts of stress knowing your ship could randomly blow up. Beautiful terror weapon.

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You deal death with your roars and your screams, your threats, your taunts, your overblown ego. I hand it out, one with the steel and the silence, the blackness around me, with a thought.
 
Well, that's all very nice, but the point is, Kilrathi suicidal tendencies are very much comparable to the suicidal tendencies of lemmings.

In other words, the so-called Kilrathi suicidal tendencies are actually an utter misconception, much as with the above-mentioned lemmings.

In case you haven't noticed, btw, while kamikaze runs are all perfectly fine, cloaked kamikaze runs would go very much against the grain of Kilrathi culture. There is no honour in such death.

And as for normal kamikaze runs, most Kilrathi do not get up in the morning thinking "ok, I think I'll strap two or three tonnes of anti-matter to my fighter today, and crash into a carrier."
 
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