Does anyone else find the old ones unplayable...because they can't bare the graphics?

G

GreySaber

Spaceman
I love Wing Commander.... Played all of them. Now, with the remake of privateer out, (Fabulous. Hope all the others get the same attention...) I played through it, and wanted to go back and play the old ones. I managed to get them to run enough to see the old graphics, which had once been so impressive. I can't look at them anymore. Does anyone else have this problem?

I'm still looking for my copy of the last one or so... Perhaps I'll be able to look at it?
 
Not really. My favourite game of all time is Starflight, which was made in 1986 (imagine the graphics for *that* game). For me, gameplay matters a lot more than graphics do.
 
Cool. Every play the sequel, Starflight 2, or Star Control 2 for that matter?

Also, if you have a powerfull enough rig, you can run the old games with dosbox and add scaling options to smooth out the pixels. That helps a bit.
 
I did, both of them.
Some of those old games were fabulous.... Which is why all these remakes are so exciting. I personally can't understand why EA doesn't do a remake. They have all the film from wc3 and so on, and the scripts from WC1 and 2. They could make a new engine, make some new models, then once that's done, just quick generate all the missions. They could release the longest game in history (All the wing commanders in one package) for minimal cost.
 
GreySaber said:
I personally can't understand why EA doesn't do a remake. They have all the film from wc3 and so on, and the scripts from WC1 and 2. They could make a new engine, make some new models, then once that's done, just quick generate all the missions. They could release the longest game in history (All the wing commanders in one package) for minimal cost.
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That sounds like a terrible idea. The last thing I want is something shoveled out as quickly as possible. Most of us here can look past the graphics to the gameplay and story. Remakes, though they can be fun, often just don't quite capture the magic of what made the original so special way back when. Sometimes they even betray what was so good about them by trying to change things from a position of ignorance and adding elements that unbalance a very specific style of gameplay.

A case in point about remakes: Anyone who has ever seen The film La Femme Nikita as well as Point of no Return should (I hope) understand this point. Point of no return is pretty much a scene for scene remake except in English as opposed to french. Aside from some minor detail. Its almost the same. But the remake is terrible. It just doesnt have "It" (whatever it is ) . It doesnt work at all where as the French film is quite superb. (watch subtitles if you don't know french though because the dubbing turns the film into a joke. )

Funny thing about it is that they copied shots, sets, and more. It's really strange why they bothered. The original didn't *look* bad as some suggest old games do.
 
Kinda in the same realm

I get together with friends of mine semiregulary to play xbox on saturdays. Almost every body went out and purchased a 360 almost as soon as it came out. The only games we ever played that everyone had was Halo, Halo 2,Star Wars Battlefront and various rainbow six games.

Now I been tired of running and gunning for awhile. Its fun but you soon realize that its all the same who pulls the trigger first or who hits you with their gun before you react. It was getting kinda boring. I bought Operation Flashpoint for the original xbox and it was our answer. Its gots a mission editor so there would always be variety plus its got the killing that everyone apperantly craves.

So I bring it over and show it off. They all laugh look at the guy not moving his arms while controling the steering wheel. I was trying to tell them Im driving a civilian vechicle one of about ten in the game. Theres also tanks, boats, jets, and helicopters oh my. But they couldn't get past the graphics it didn't matter that I had the funnest game down there and an answer to the problem of getting bored with the same game.

But alas no one bought Operation Flashpoint instead I get told to go out and purchase a 360 so I can play a WW2/Halo game instead of trying something new.

Sorry for the rant but I thought it kinda applied here graphics don't mean nothing if fun gameplay is there.
 
You're right in saying some games don't age well because of their graphics engine - Rise Of The Triad and Terminal Velocity come to mind - but Wing Commander continues to look fantastic after all this time.The graphics remain as colorful and eye-popping as ever and the gameplay is still some of the best I've ever come across.
 
GreySaber said:
I love Wing Commander.... Played all of them. Now, with the remake of privateer out, (Fabulous. Hope all the others get the same attention...) I played through it, and wanted to go back and play the old ones. I managed to get them to run enough to see the old graphics, which had once been so impressive. I can't look at them anymore. Does anyone else have this problem?
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Not once ever. WC games still look good to me, and I always have a great time playing them. I mean sure they don't look like a million dollars, but they are definatley playable

GreySaber said:
I personally can't understand why EA doesn't do a remake. They have all the film from wc3 and so on, and the scripts from WC1 and 2. They could make a new engine, make some new models, then once that's done, just quick generate all the missions. They could release the longest game in history (All the wing commanders in one package) for minimal cost.
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I agree with AD. That sounds postively awful. The last thing you need is a halfassed attempt at a remake. It just wouldn't sit right with people.
 
LeHah said:
You're right in saying some games don't age well because of their graphics engine - Rise Of The Triad and Terminal Velocity come to mind - but Wing Commander continues to look fantastic after all this time.The graphics remain as colorful and eye-popping as ever and the gameplay is still some of the best I've ever come across.
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It comes down to more than just graphics. Wing Commander had excellent graphics, but it also has excellent art direction and animation. The style of its aged graphics is very immersive and interesting. Things like a bucket dripping in the Tiger's Claw barracks or trains coming and going at the Oxford launch pad are just great touches that transcend pixels and special effects.

powell99 said:
I agree with AD. That sounds postively awful. The last thing you need is a halfassed attempt at a remake. It just wouldn't sit right with people.
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And it shouldn't really be necessary. The graphics on Prophecy Advance were eye popping on the GBA, and Wing Commander 1 should look excellent on the PSP. Privateer on GameTap won't look any different, and all of these rereleases have done or should do very well. I don't think people understand how much effort it takes to actually remake something either. Rereleases are much more practical, and they free up resources to work on entirely new games.
 
I don't care about the graphics. What counts is whether or not the game does a good job at pulling you in, making you care about your character and the other characters, and what happens next in the plot. All of the Wing Commander games have done very well with that. Graphics are simply marginal to achieving that effect.

Refusing to play the early Wing Commander games because they have comparatively poor graphics is like refusing to watch Casablanca because it's in black and white.

Ever since I got DOSBox up and running on my computer, I've basically only been playing Wing Commander games. I even set aside a few newer games that I recently purchased - Quake 4, Civilization 4, and Galactic Civilizations II - because I'm primarily interested in playing WC. In my mind, the older WC games, especially, are better than even the best of the newer, non WC games that are being released today.
 
ChrisReid said:
It comes down to more than just graphics. Wing Commander had excellent graphics, but it also has excellent art direction and animation. The style of its aged graphics is very immersive and interesting. Things like a bucket dripping in the Tiger's Claw barracks or trains coming and going at the Oxford launch pad are just great touches that transcend pixels and special effects.
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You said exactly what I actually wanted to impart. Thank you, Chris.

I'll also add that Wing Commander is one of the best games of it's time for little touches like the ones you mentioned. You don't see the same ideas or nice details in current games. Something like a pilot debriefing where your wingman complements you on your kills really add a level of depth.
 
I don't think that the old graphics are making the game unplayable... the only thing that is a bit annoying with the old sprite-based WCs (especially WC1) is the limited amount of displayable angles for the ships, wich sometimes gives you the impression you're aiming at a ship while a second later, turning to it's next viewable angle you realise you were not. It's not a big deal with the fighters but for bigger capships it sometime is bothersome... it's not the game's fault, but rather the fact that we're now used to smooth 3D shapes. After you fly a few missions you quickly forget about it.

Anyway, if I had the power to "update" the old WC games it's the only thing I'd do: add more viewable angles to the sprite files, and maybe double their res-size so they zoom better. Not that it's something we can expect to happen anyway, nor that it's needed to enjoy the games.
 
PopsiclePete said:
Anyway, if I had the power to "update" the old WC games it's the only thing I'd do: add more viewable angles to the sprite files, and maybe double their res-size so they zoom better. Not that it's something we can expect to happen anyway, nor that it's needed to enjoy the games.
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Doesnt LOAF or someone have a harddrive that has all the original 3d models that the sprites were made from on it? Theoretically, if someone had access to the programs used for those it would be possible to render matching sprites of the missing angles. Then it would just be a matter of hacking the engine to accept more angles.

But you're right, I suppose. It wont happen any time soon.
 
To the best of my knowledge (I have spent a considerable amount of time hunting these down - although probably not as much time as LOAF or Chris) The models used to create the WC1 sprites are lost. They were sub-contracted out to another company, one that used an obsure Amiga program with a non-standard file format (fact being, there were no standard formats in 1990) to render the sprites. I'm sure they're sitting on a 5 /12 in floppy somewhere in the Massive EA archive - but even if we had them, it's doubtfull we'd be able to read them.
On the other hand, we do seem to have the majority of the 3d art assets of every game since - for which we should be very, very grateful.
 
I heard the same story, the original models for WC1 were made on some obscure Amiga graphics format and are lost.
 
Wing Commander 2 is the prettiest game of the entire series in my opinon and WC1 isn't far behind. Hence I don't share your opinion at all.
 
Well, I once heard someone (in TV or so) saying PC-games were not yet a kind of art because they all were about higher details instead of having a style of their own - well, I couldn't agree with that (and still can't)... I like the graphics of old games like WC1, while I feel that - for example - in the graphics "upgrade" from X2 to X3 something got lost somehow...

And well, after all I recently re-installed some older games with the help of DOSBox - WC2, Armada, Master of Orion 2... all are great games :) . (though my PC is a bit too slow for some of them on DOSBox :/ )
 
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