Do you think it was correct that Confed destroyed Kilrah?

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

Originally posted by Bhaktadil
I'm sure that the majority of civilians on Kilrah supported the war. They are a predatory society that is quite different from ours. Most of them would probably want to join the military if they could anyways. That does not change anything, but a civilian that is just a bystander and wants no part of the war, in my opinion, does not quite exist in their society.

As already pointed out, there were (if you read the novels) quite a number of Kilrathi who did want to end the war, either by peace (the Rebels on Ghorah Khar, N'tanya, K'arakh and Shariha) or by winning the war the honourable way, regarding the Terrans as an equal race and not prey. There are a lot of hints that the Kilrathi were war weary as well.

 

[Hotwing]

There was no choice. In the words of Angel, "the KilraTi do not co-exist". If you've seen the bad ending of Wc3 then the T-bomb was totally justified, unless... you'd never seen it... friends, people you know being fried in their cockpit...

 

[Jochen]

Looks as if I did not pick the best words for the poll subject... what I meant was not if Confed had the *right* to destroy Kilrah (because the Kilrathi most likely would do the same once they get the chance) but if, under the given circumstances, it was *acceptable* to pick this "last choice" to avoid the destruction of earth (or, even worse, the extinction of mankind!), or if you think that Confed should have continued the war by "normal means" no matter what would have been the *consequences*

 

[Bhaktadil]

Originally posted by Skyfire


Most of Confed supported the war too, even if they were a bit weary of it. (After all, they had missiles reach Terra, as well as the death of many people and the conquering of countless worlds.) There's little reason for people NOT to want their government to fight back. As for joining the military, most of Confed did the same thing-else we wouldn't have had so many people to throw at the Kilrathi. I don't think your definition of a civilian exists in any society (that we know of), if only because of a desire for defense and protection of your world.

(BTW-There was a group, in one of the novels-can't remember which-that wished to overthrow the government to end the war. Had that priestess in it...any help here, Mekt? LOAF?)

Ehh ... the Kilrathi were the ones who caused the war. The thing is, it is not like there are two groups of Kilrathi, the military Kilrathi that are vicious and wanted to conquer, and the civilian Kilrathi that were innocent bystanders who had a different viewpoint. The history of Kilrah is comprised of one brutal civil war after another or to paraphrase Chris Douglas , when they finished one war the thing that would be on their minds is who is who to attack next. Not many humans wanted the war; they had to fight for their survival. The point is, the civilinas were pretty much the same as the military, the only reason is for various reasons of neccesity, social status, or whatever, they could not join the military. While technically they were civilians, I think that pretty there entire civillian force was a support for their military and the Cats' plans.

Yes, there were a few who disagreed with the war (esp Forstchen's guys.) The infamous J's, of of course. And planets such as Ghorah Khar.
Mekt, some Kilrathi may have been war-weary, but I seriously doubt many were. Their entire history is comprised of war after war, so ... I doubt that they were tired of war that only lasted 30+ years. I think it was the scope, and they also were probably just tired of not being able to conquer them apes and crush them as ... easily as expected .

 

[Skyfire]

I'd actually completely disagree. From what they showed, most Kilrathi were either wishing to fight the war as equals with Terrans, or wanting it to end completely. Due to the fact that the war went on for 30+ years it seems more likely that they wished to fight as either equals, or end the whole thing entirely. (Since I don't think any conflict the Kilrathi had seen had lasted that long.)

And yeah, the Kilrathi did start the war-but that doesn't mean that they don't grow just as tired of it. (Maybe more-so when they realize they're not winning as easily as they thought they would.)

I do believe there were two groups, excluding rebels. Except for the idea of nationalism, I'd see the Kilrathi as growing just as tired of a war where you take a sector, and lose a sector, reclaim your sector, and lose the one you've just gained. Even the Baron's said how it was a rather big stalemate until the false treaty.

 

[Bhaktadil]

The humans were the first species that gave them a long hard fight, so, I agree, they probably did begin to see the humans as equals. I see them as getting frustrated at fighting a battle that was not really getting anywhere.

But they fought wars almost continously throughout their history. If they really were tired of war they would have atleast tried to prevent the wars in their history as much as possible. But according to Kilrathi conceptual designer (for Wc3) Chris Douglas, the Kilrathi were always trying to start a new war after the onld ended. This went on for who knows how long.

The Kilrathi were probably simply burnt out of fighting a war that was going nowhere, but as Tolwyn said, "they are still the hunters, and we are still the prey."

 

[Penguin]

Do you think it was correct that Confed destroyed Kilrah?

Militarily this is a no brainer. It was the best solution available to Confed, at the time, to win the war.

Morally it depends on your personal perspective. Heres mine: I'm no philosopher, or expert on such matters, but I believe that all philosophy aims to answer the question: how do we live our lives well? In this case Confed knows that the war is lost. Its only chance to conclude the war in a manner satisfactory to Terrans (eg. maintaining our way of life as opposed to becoming Kilrathi slaves) is to destroy Kilrah. There is *no other way* therefore I believe the decision to destroy Kilrah is also morally justifiable. Note that this example is a simplified one.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

In considering this, remember that we *know* that the Kilrathi planned to wipe out our species -- Thrakhath and the Emperor, tired of the war, decreed such in the WCIII novel.

 

[Anagram]

Hey... If it's a question of My Species vs Theirs, and They want to kill Us completely, down to the last man, well...

NUKE 'EM!!!

 

[Ghost]

Hey, I´m from Buenos Aires.
And I say Kill´em all!!!!!

 

[OriginalPhoenix]

Originally posted by Raptor
It wasn't quite the same thing, though. The bombing of Kilrah was the last throw by a side that was on the verge of losing. The A-bombs were a coup de grace from the side that was winning. The reasons for carrying them out were quite different.

Agreed. Bombing Kilrah was an "us or them" last ditch effort. Dropping the a-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an effort to shorten the war and ultimately save more lives than invasion would have cost. Also of some import is that Japan was very clearly warned that the US had developed a weapon of high destruction, unlike anything that had been seen before. They were given the chance to surrender, and chose not to.

This debate comes up frequently in social circles. Good arguements are made either way. But ultimately, there is no arguing that invading Japan would have cost many times more lives than dropping the a-bombs.

 

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

Originally posted by Bhaktadil
(...)
But they fought wars almost continously throughout their history. If they really were tired of war they would have atleast tried to prevent the wars in their history as much as possible. But according to Kilrathi conceptual designer (for Wc3) Chris Douglas, the Kilrathi were always trying to start a new war after the onld ended. This went on for who knows how long.

(...)

I disagree. The Kilrathi mostly fought short wars where very few hardships were placed on the population and always ended with a total Kilrathi victory (except of course the Mantu wars). It's really no big surprise that they weren't as angry about a new war at the beginning. Of course, the civil wars would have been rather bloody but the mroe recent wars were all won and glorious. I think it's even probable that many many Kirlathi were war weary since they weren't used to such wars.

 

[Nukkus]

i think you guys are kooky @_@;;;

 

[KrisV]

Please stop wasting my bandwidth.

 

[Zor Prime]

Originally posted by Ghost
Hey, I´m from Buenos Aires.
And I say Kill´em all!!!!!

I liked that movie.


As for killing the Kilrathi, I think they were right. After all, they were going to kill us.

Originally posted by Nukkus
i think you guys are kooky @_@;;;

Look who's talking.

 

[Mekt-Hakkikt]

Originally posted by Jochen
Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning the right of the Kilrathi species to exist/survive, but Confed only destroyed Kilrah because they had no other choice to avoid their own extinction, and it was no easy decision for Paladin, Blair and all other involved... the Kilrathi on the other hand have no respect at all for the right of other species to exist and IIRC they already had extincted multiple species before the war against Confed... if they hadn't been so ruthless, maybe Confed would not have even considered this "last solution"

More opinions on this? I'll open a new thread about this so that this thread can return to it's original topic... you find it here:

http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4719

But we have plenty of evidence in the novels that enough Kilrathi held respect for the Terrans and did very well acknowledge their right to exist, even though preferably under Kilrathi rule.
The wish to extinct the Terrans with Bioweapons was mainly the Emperor's and Thrakhath's wish because they needed to end the war quickly or else the Clans might have started an uprising against the ruling family.

 

[Bhaktadil]

Thrakhath was in power, though, so it does not matter how many Kilrathi respected us. If we lost the war ... well ... we know what Thrakhath planned to do to us clownish baboons.

Aonther thing, as I have said, I do not think it was so much the actual war (the combat) that tired them out. It was more because the war went on and on and consumed resources, yet it was not going anywhere. Thus, some might have started questioning the point of the war.

 

[Skyfire]

I'd actually think it was really both. The time/resource consumption is always the first problem to start bothering a unified country/world as a whole, and once the body count starts piling up, that becomes another demorilization factor.

Although to be honest, I think both Confed and the Kilrathi were at the stage where (during Blair's time), that they would send as many people off to die as necessary, and would go down fighting tooth and nail, even if it meant there whole populace. (For Confed it was either slavery/ritualistic killing, or this-while for the Kilrathi, it was a matter of honor.)

 

[Bob McDob]

Originally posted by Zor Prime

I liked that movie.

I'd point and laugh...like this! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...except all SST topics are apparently banned

As for Kilrah...yeah, what everyone said. The A-Bomb analogy would be more apt if you supposed that Japan got it first, and decided to nuke DC...where most of the entire military was gathered 'round...and with half the states about to secede from the union...but you get my point...right?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The SST movie was neat. After many, many terrifying discussions on the inter-web, I've come to the conclusion that it's far more intellectual than the SST book.