Carrier Classification (WC 2634)

RAT said:
Hmmmmmm.....
Whots the emotion?!
I think you both right. Scimitar developed before Kilrathi war, BUT mass produce starting after heavy loses in McColiffe battle (and starting terran-kilrathi war).
I think it's a good theory.... Whot do you think?
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You can make up whatever theory you want for your mod, but they're not both "right." The link posted by LOAF describes the history of the Scimitar. It was mass produced long before the war broke out, and it was already an extremely old fighter by that time.
 
I'm not certain if this has ever come up in discussion of the Scimitar's age before, but it does seem to set a historical precedent for a craft with an operation lifespan in excess of a hundred years.
From the B-52 Stratofortress fact sheet
For more than 40 years B-52 Stratofortresses have been the backbone of the manned strategic bomber force for the United States. The B-52 is capable of dropping or launching the widest array of weapons in the U.S. inventory. This includes gravity bombs, cluster bombs, precision guided missiles and joint direct attack munitions. Updated with modern technology the B-52 will be capable of delivering the full complement of joint developed weapons and will continue into the 21st century as an important element of our nation's defenses. Current engineering analyses show the B-52's life span to extend beyond the year 2040
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So, it's really unnecessary to come up with reasons why the Scimitar can't be as old as it is, because it really can be.
 
Yes.
But B-52 is STRATEGICK BOMBER... Its To rich... Scimitar is a fighter. As i read on link postet UP, i read a Hundred (!!!) year of services! Its Nonsens! Fighter from WW1 have NO CHANCE whith ANY modification against Su-37 ore F-22. Sience is rising like tide! Faster and Faster! And B-52 - Old bomber. And it have no chance against S-400 (SAM) ore Mig-31. It juct a bomb carrier. Whithout fighter cover its 100% deadcorps. But cover is not garantee life. Speed and altitude is low fore modern combat. It just too rich fore change. Some new bomber like Tu-160 ore Valkire - its not fly bekose a deal betwin USA and USSR is close it. Thets is a true topic of long services of b-52.
Scimitar in active service on war to 2655 year. Thets point us to 2634-2645 is a GOOD and NEW fighter, whith no reason to change it. It can't be more then 50 years old.
B-52: Good idea but not right.
 
It's certainly not a unique occurance in Wing Commander -- the Hurricane-class fighters seen in Action Stations are said to be of a similar vintage.

In terms of the historical parallel, the B-52 won't live a long service life just because it's a large bomber -- it will do so because there's no real need for a better large bomber in current warfare. During World War 2 and the Cold War, strategic bombers advanced amazingly quickly because there was a need for them. In five years of war you go from the Flying Fortress to the B-36 -- and then the 'bomber gap' gave you the B-52 in another decade... then, nothing. Everyone had moved on and had realized there wasn't going to be another World War 2 style strategic bombing campaign and that any future world-scale war would be fought with ICBMs.

The Scimitar (and the Hurricane) exists in such an era for Confederation fighters - there's no war, no reason to build more advanced fighters (and even then naval doctrine favors ships of the wall and using fighters only for light reconaissance and escorting bombers on space to ground runs...). The fact that they're old is a dramatic device to enforce this feeling at the outset of the Terran/Kilrathi war.


wow...that is pretty crazy, "I've already got plans to fix it, but I don't have a lot of time right now, damn that SEAL Trainingl! Goddamn all of those gear prep and stringent liberty policies and boat crew musters and inspection preperation and 1-on-1 Instructor beatings that take away all of my free time when we get off for the day!"
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There's certainly no rush -- but you must understand that we're going to correct people who cite it as a reference here at the CZ.
 
Heck, modern fighter designs are hitting the half-century mark these days.

Yes, it's neat that the super-industrialized nations can afford F-22s and Eurofighters and whatnot, but we're going to continue to see F-4s serving many airforces in the world for a long time to come. India plans to keep flying MiG-21s until 2015 -- the design will be sixty years old. Italy finally retired the last of its F-104 Starfighters last year.
 
Hmmm... Not need? Not war? Whot's about Pilgrum war?
No one warmen ore president to be sleep on one position. Human evreithing create new.
Whots about "Hurrikane" - whot is the fighter? Need some info. If present - send weblink, please. (In WCA is they present?)
About B-52 - "Not need new bomber" - wrong. Need. Fore break out the SAM defenses. Fore avaiding of interceptors. More speed - smole time of firecontakt. Stratospherikal bombers, giperspherikal... low orbit space craft... thets is create 30 years ago, but... we stop fore save our life. But in close time it stand on flight field.
Progress is not stopt...
In thet raeson i stay on position - 2634 year is the birth of Scimitar on the battlefield.
P.S. About india Mig-21, Italy and other... Landsraih use scimitar along after 2655...
And it is real good post - New technik add in army, old stay on duty... but how many F-22 USA have today? Its starting use in army in Balkanian war, but its not a main fighter. F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18 - thets is mainstream. 6-8 year ago, but F-22 only 15-30 crafts on duty....
 
From the Wing Commander Encyclopedia
On 2631.244 a Pilgrim fleet jumped into the Sol System, planning to destroy the fleet yards at the Port of Titan space station and halt Confederation expansion. The Confederation, however, had grown strong and, after three days of fighting, repelled the Pilgrim attack. After refusing to negotiate, the Pilgrims began a guerrilla campaign with raids on Confederation systems which lead to a Confederation declaration of war on 2632.017.

The war continued for over three years, with the Pilgrims murdering and enslaving those they captured. The Confederation eventually launched a Grand Fleet, which quickly began capturing systems. The turning point of the war was the siege of Peron, which lasted for seven months. After the fall of Peron, the Pilgrims soon ended the war with the signing of peace accords at Cygnus on 2634.049, which ended the Pilgrim Alliance.
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We know that space combat was primarily ship to ship prior to the Kilrathi War, thanks in large part to the early war perspective given to us by Action Stations. It's disingenuous to suggest that the Scimitar was developed immediately following the Pilgrim War, not so much because we know that's not the case (we do, and that ought to be enough), but because naval doctrine at the time did not put much stock in fighter operations. It's meant to form an obvious parallel to the difference between naval battles of World War I and the Pacific theater carrier operations of World War II.

As for the B-52, Loaf correctly contradicted your statement that there could be no parallel between the Stratofortress and the Scimitar because one is a long-range bomber and the other is not. The Scimitar, like the B-52, is a relic of a bygone era of warfare. The B-52 remains in service because there is still a demand for long-range strategic bombers, but not nearly enough of a demand to warrant the development of a successor. For this reason the B-52 continues to receive major refits every few years as new technology becomes available and cost efficient, and will continue to serve until the airframes become structurally unsound or the demand for a class of long-range strategic bombers is abolished altogether.

It is not a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same was the case for the Scimitar leading right up into the Kilrathi War and beyond. However, when demand for a medium fighter grew to the point that it was worth investing in the development of one (the shift away from battleships and towards fighters in the early war), the Scimitar was retired and replaced with the Rapier II.
 
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interesting pointz is that in WCTV, the scimmi has lasers, but in wc 1 it had mass drivers. i suppose you could argue it was upgraded a few times.

as for the b52, isn't the b2 a quasi-successor? ok, it doesn't have the payload, but sams and interceptors won't be such a problem
 
Yes. Thets is i want to say. Thenk you, 6and7eighths. I think it's the end.
WCTV is are so creasy coctail of fighter.....
 
Yes, it's neat that the super-industrialized nations can afford F-22s and Eurofighters and whatnot, but we're going to continue to see F-4s serving many airforces in the world for a long time to come. India plans to keep flying MiG-21s until 2015 -- the design will be sixty years old. Italy finally retired the last of its F-104 Starfighters last year.
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An interesting side note on the Mig-21 is that Israel (among other countries) is offering avionics and ECM upgrades to users of "second generation" fighters like the Mig-21, which gives them similar capabilities to fourth generation fighters like the Mig-29. The upshot is that any pilot who expects an old fighter to be meat on the table might be in for a nasty surprise.

Best, Raptor
 
Chevieblazer said:
interesting pointz is that in WCTV, the scimmi has lasers, but in wc 1 it had mass drivers. i suppose you could argue it was upgraded a few times.
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I'm not sure that's particularly interesting or noteworthy. Practically every single fighter we see has multiple variants with different guns or weapon loadouts. Many of these variants coexist.
 
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Gun upgrading is a very common thing, so it's not noteworthy. You said that you supposed that someone could argue that the weapons were upgraded, and I said there's no debate, everyone should know the guns change. Everyone should assume guns change on various versions of every fighter.
 
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