Arena's Fighting Ships (April 14, 2007)

We die trying! :)

I imagine EA is skittish regarding downloadable content... because the entire internet is so consistently nasty whenever they try it. But I also think Arena is going to be a huge hit and that additional content (new ships, maps, guns, etc.) pretty much design themselves.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
We die trying! :)

I imagine EA is skittish regarding downloadable content... because the entire internet is so consistently nasty whenever they try it. But I also think Arena is going to be a huge hit and that additional content (new ships, maps, guns, etc.) pretty much design themselves.
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I think it's mostly that the internet is stupid about it because they want everything for free. THey don't mind downloadable contend as long as they don't have to pay for it.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
We die trying! :)

I imagine EA is skittish regarding downloadable content... because the entire internet is so consistently nasty whenever they try it. But I also think Arena is going to be a huge hit and that additional content (new ships, maps, guns, etc.) pretty much design themselves.
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I just think that the lack of heavy fighters is pretty conspicuous, especially when there are pictures of Gothri and Centurions on the walls.
 
AD said:
I think it's mostly that the internet is stupid about it because they want everything for free. THey don't mind downloadable contend as long as they don't have to pay for it.
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I don't think that's right either. A lot of developers wanted to release their d/l content for free but MS forced them to charge for it. If you look around you can find plenty of stories about it. The most recent one I saw was in this month's Gamer Informer magazine.
 
I don't know, I think the truth is somewhere in-between. It's easy for everyone (third party devs included) to blame evil Microsoft for all their ills... but at the end of the day there's a lot more to consider. Microsoft, for example, has to test and distribute these files (presumably on their dime)... *and* they have the future of the service for all their developers to consider. If {Indie Dev 1} is giving away horse armor for free then it's a lot harder for {Indie Dev 2} to sell content later on.
 
Dundradal said:
Yeah, I do like that appeal, makes you understand what it was like to fly with the FRLN. :D

Looks like we'll have to wait and see what it is on gameday...
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I am not so sure if we really get that feeling because, after all, the enemy is flying the same junk. And there are a lot of goodies we haven't seen yet so I am sceptic if it will really feel "outdated". I mean it's a great explanations for why some things are as they are (more armour plating instead of alloys, Neutron gun back) but I don't know if we will really feel it.

That's something I really am looking for in WC, flying weak crafts against top fighters. Well, I could experience a bit in Aramada and WCP, when you fly the Dralthi and Vaktoth. That was fun!

Anyway, I am gearing up my efforts to get a XBox360 because I think I cannot wait too long after Arena is released. It just looks so good.
 
Mekt-Hakkikt said:
I am not so sure if we really get that feeling because, after all, the enemy is flying the same junk. And there are a lot of goodies we haven't seen yet so I am sceptic if it will really feel "outdated". I mean it's a great explanations for why some things are as they are (more armour plating instead of alloys, Neutron gun back) but I don't know if we will really feel it.

That's something I really am looking for in WC, flying weak crafts against top fighters. Well, I could experience a bit in Aramada and WCP, when you fly the Dralthi and Vaktoth. That was fun!

Anyway, I am gearing up my efforts to get a XBox360 because I think I cannot wait too long after Arena is released. It just looks so good.
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I hope I can get a high speed internet connection in time. Oh, and an Xbox 360
 
Yeah, well you have little over a month probably before it is released. Sean mentioned late June, so I hope you guys get one soon.
 
Sorry folks...have to disazgree with y'all.

I really have to agree with posters like Black_Lightning and LeHah, sad to say - the "new" ships in WC Arena look like horrible kitbashes of the original fighters, which had both "simplicity of line" and a severe beauty to them. Not that kitbashes aren't used - look at any good site about Star Trek: DS9 to see kitbashing run amok - it's just that they coulda done better than just strap on parts the way they did in their reveled concept sketches. Instead of three "variants" of each fighter, why didn't they just go to the next in line, thereby keeping the good designs and upping the playing field quite a bit? An example would be, for the light fighters (Confederation side):

"Base" fighter: Hornet
"First Upgrade" : Arrow
"Second Upgrade" Banshee.

For the fighters: coulda been (again, Confederation side):

"Base" fighter: Rapier
"First Upgrade": Rapier II
"Second Upgrade": Hellcat V or Thunderbolt VII, seeing the specs they chose for their "heavy" Rapier...

For the "bombers" (again Confederation):
"Base" bomber, Either the Sabre, Crossbow or Morningstar
"First Upgrade" ship: Broadsword
"Second Upgrade" ship: Longbow

The progression in his case makes more sense, and you're not winding up with kitbashed ships. You then have the option as well to add on a whole new class: the heavy fighters in a future upgrade...Imagine flying a Vaktoth or a Dragon...

But I digress. Anyhow, I think it's a point worth discussing rather than the overenthusiasm seen on the board to date.

John

PS any typoes are mine, Ive got a bad case of carpal so they're honest mistakes, at least.
 
johndmes1 said:
I really have to agree with posters like Black_Lightning and LeHah, sad to say - the "new" ships in WC Arena look like horrible kitbashes of the original fighters, which had both "simplicity of line" and a severe beauty to them. Not that kitbashes aren't used - look at any good site about Star Trek: DS9 to see kitbashing run amok - it's just that they coulda done better than just strap on parts the way they did in their reveled concept sketches. Instead of three "variants" of each fighter, why didn't they just go to the next in line, thereby keeping the good designs and upping the playing field quite a bit?
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While it may have been neat to see more fighter types, it doesn't fit with the backstory for arena. The whole point is that these are supposed to look like fighters with extra junk pasted on them. Aesthetics is, by definition, a matter of taste but a close examination of the designs show them to be exactly what was intended, like it or not.

Out in the Antares sector, there isn't an endless supply of production run fighters. They are relying on confed leftovers and kilrathi war relics. They're all but forgotten when confed figures out where to spend it's budget.
 
But I digress. Anyhow, I think it's a point worth discussing rather than the overenthusiasm seen on the board to date.
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Oh, no, *over*enthusiasm? People are excited about a new Wing Commander game? How *dare* they be!? We work hard at not being a self-loathing community - it's destroying fandoms like Star Trek, and it isn't going to happen here.

Sillyness aside, this is a good example of something Andy Hollis liked to explain back when he was in charge of Wing Commander: fans don't know what makes a game. They imagine things as complex as possible, not as suited to gameplay as possible. Something sounding cool and something actually working in a game are two different things. Think of all the 'Privateer wishlists' from the 1990s -- fly a carrier, own a planet, run a carrier, etc. -- they're inane from a design perspective (as the Privateer Remake so vividly proved last year) - more complex doesn't mean better.

History shows that less is more when it comes to ships in Wing Commander. We still argue about which of the four WC1 ships is the best or which of the three Privateer purchases is the best decision... no one -ever- compares the merits of the 18 different Privateer 2 ships. How many times have you compared the three WC1 guns? Lots. How many discussions have you seen about which of the twenty-odd Armada guns are best? None. Too many choices and they all run together. Arena came up with a neat way to get around this - 6 ships and 18 styles.

Having 18 different original ships also seems like it'd be obnoxious - it wouldn't establish any kind of setting or continuity, it'd just be an 'old design' clearinghouse. Look what we remembered! Going once, going twice, going three times, all your memories! It would also be a lot more work for designers and artists alike - instead of perfecting six ships and evolving them for certain roles they'd have to do 18 distinct ones.
 
johndmes1 said:
But I digress. Anyhow, I think it's a point worth discussing rather than the overenthusiasm seen on the board to date.
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It's one thing to register at the forums to complain about WC fans being excited about a new WC game. When it's your second registration, that's a problem.

12) You are allowed one Crius.net account. If there is an issue with your account, please contact the Administrators via email or IRC. Under no circumstances are users allowed to register a second account. Multiple accounts will be closed without warning.
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I have to admit that, at first, I thought the three ships with three variants each would be cheap. I feared the variants would be very similiar in appearance and have only loadout differences.
Now, I think it's very well made. The variants look all so different and have different stats that they really seem like different fightercrafts but still have a recognizable frame. And I thinks it's definately more interesting than seeing just every old fighter again.
I love it when parts from older games are back again in a new product (like the Rapier in WC2 or Broadsword in Priv) but it shouldn't be overused.
 
Also, it seems relevant to note that the 'three versions' bit is part of the story/setting. Sean has talked about this several times - the idea is to suggest that those making their living on the frontier are grafting together new ships from the spaceframes left over by the last war. You can really see that in some of the designs - big sheathes of metal over the previous design, welding marks on the armor, etc.
 
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