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Wing Commander tracks the player's 'kill points' for each mission and uses this value to assign medals. Every enemy ship ship destroyed by the player is assigned a value based on its class and when the number of kill points reaches a scripted threshold at the end of a mission a medal is awarded.
Wing Commander tracks the player's 'kill points' for each mission and uses this value to assign medals. Every enemy ship ship destroyed by the player is assigned a value based on its class and when the number of kill points reaches a scripted threshold at the end of a mission a medal is awarded.


==Notes==
==Medal Graphics==


* There are two instances where a medal is possible only when your wingman is killed. This is because the game deducts fifteen points from the overall 'mission point' score and then assigns that value back to the 'kill points' used for determining awards. The system for scoring mission points is very similar to kill points but it also awards 25 points for each enemy ace killed. As a result, killing an ace and also losing your wingman in Brimstone 2 and Hell's Kitchen 4 can result in a net gain of ten or more points and reaching the assigned medal thresholds for those missions.
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Medal
! Art
|-
| Bronze Star
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Bronze_Star.png]]
|-
| Bronze Star Bar
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Bronze_Star_Bar.png]]
|-
| Silver Star
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Silver_Star.png]]
|-
| Silver Star Bar
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Silver_Star_Bar.png]]
|-
| Gold Star
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Gold_Star.png]]
|-
| Gold Star Bar
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Gold_Star_Bar.png]]
|-
| Golden Sun
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Golden Sun.png]]
|-
| Medal of Valor
| [[Image:WC_Medal_-_Valor.png]]
|-
|}


* Every mission has a medal assigned although in many cases the score required can not be achieved. In many cases this is clearly an intentional decision to prevent the game from awarding a medal by giving a required score of thousands of points. However, three missions have scores which are much lower: Venice 2 (190), Hell's Kitchen 1 (160) and Hell's Kitchen 3 (161).
==Design==


* The final mission of Super Wing Commander is scripted to award the player a Bronze Star for scoring 0 points. The game ends on an in-flight cutscene instead of a debriefing so no medal ceremony is shown.
The design for Wing Commander's medal system was first presented in [[Wingleader Medals and Ribbons]].
 
==Wingman Death Bug==
 
There are three instances in the Vega Campaign where an award is possible only when your wingman is killed. This is because the game deducts fifteen points from the overall 'mission point' score and then assigns that value back to the 'kill points' used for determining awards. The system for scoring mission points is very similar to kill points but it also awards 25 points for each enemy ace killed. As a result, killing an ace and also losing your wingman in Brimstone 2, Venice 1 or Hell's Kitchen 4 can result in a net gain of ten or more points and reaching the otherwise impossible scripted medal thresholds for those missions.


==Scoring==
==Scoring==
Line 65: Line 98:
==Tally==
==Tally==


* Across all four campaigns there are a total of 14 Bronze Stars, 20 Silver Stars, 13 Gold Stars and 3 Medals of Valor that can be awarded. Vega Campaign: 9 Bronze, 14 Silver, 7 Gold, 2 Valor; The Secret Missions: 1 Bronze, 2 Silver, 1 Gold; Crusade: 2 Bronze, 2 Silver, 1 Gold, 1 Valor; Super Wing Commander: 2 Bronze, 2 Silver, 3 Gold, 1 Valor.
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Campaign
! Bronze
! Silver
! Gold
! Valor
! Total
|-
| Vega
| 9
| 13
| 6
| 2
| 30
|-
| The Secret Missions
| 2
| 1
| 1
| 0
| 4
|-
| Crusade
| 2
| 2
| 4
| 1
| 9
|-
| Super Wing Commander
| 2
| 2
| 1
| 0
| 5
|-
| Total
| 15
| 18
| 12
| 3
| 48
|}
 
===Notes===


* The most medals that can be achieved in a single play through is 17. The Secret Missions: 1 Bronze, 2 Silver, 1 Gold; Crusade: 2 Bronze, 2 Silver, 1 Valor; Super Wing Commander: 2 Bronze, 2 Silver, 3 Gold, 1 Valor.
* While there are 30 possible medals in the Vega Campaign, the most that can be awarded in a single play through is 20 (7 Bronze, 9 Silver, 3 Gold and 1 Medal of Valor). The path is Enyo to Gateway to Chengdu to Brimstone to Port Hedland to Hubble's Star to Rostov to Venice.
 
* Following Carl LaFong's 'canon' path from Wing Commander I & II: The Ultimate Strategy Guide awards a total of 15 medals: 5 Bronze, 7 Silver, 2 Gold and 1 Medal of Valor (Enyo, McAuliffe, Brimstone, Dakota, Kurasawa, Rostov and Venice). Of these, he would not have earned the Silver Stars at Brimstone 2 or Venice 1 as his wingmen were not killed. The only medal explicitly mentioned as being awarded in the guide is the Bronze Star for Enyo 2.


==Possible Medals==
==Possible Medals==
Line 79: Line 159:
! Score
! Score
! Notes
! Notes
|-
| Enyo 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Enyo 2
| Enyo 2
Line 89: Line 164:
| 50 points
| 50 points
|
|
|-
| McAuliffe 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| McAuliffe 2
| McAuliffe 2
Line 104: Line 174:
| 80 points
| 80 points
|
|
|-
| Gateway 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Gateway 2
| Gateway 2
Line 123: Line 188:
| 80 points
| 80 points
|
|
|-
| Gimle 2
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Gimle 3
| Gimle 3
Line 133: Line 193:
| 80 points
| 80 points
|
|
|-
| Brimstone 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Brimstone 2
| Brimstone 2
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 100 points
| 100 points
| Requires wingman's death
| Requires wingman's death and ace kill
|-
|-
| Brimstone 3
| Brimstone 3
Line 192: Line 247:
| Gold Star
| Gold Star
| 205 points
| 205 points
|
|-
| Kurasawa 1
| Silver Star
| 185 points
|
|
|-
|-
Line 202: Line 252:
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 90 points
| 90 points
|
|-
| Kurasawa 3
| Gold Star
| 161 points
|
|
|-
|-
Line 242: Line 287:
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 165 points
| 165 points
|
| Requires wingman's death and ace kill
|-
| Venice 2
| Gold Star
| 190 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Venice 3
| Venice 3
Line 258: Line 298:
| 245 points
| 245 points
|  
|  
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 1
| Bronze Star
| 160 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 2
| Hell's Kitchen 2
Line 268: Line 303:
| 145 points
| 145 points
|  
|  
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 3
| Silver Star
| 161 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 4
| Hell's Kitchen 4
| Medal of Valor
| Medal of Valor
| 220 points
| 220 points
| Requires wingman's death and that at least one enemy ace has survived to this point
| Requires wingman's death and ace kill
|-
|-
|}
|}
Line 288: Line 318:
! Medal
! Medal
! Score
! Score
! Notes
|-
|-
| Goddard 1
| Goddard 2
| Silver Star
| 100 points
|-
| Jotunheim 3
| Bronze Star
| 0 points
|-
| Valgard 3
| Bronze Star
| 0 points
|-
| Vigrid 2
| Gold Star
| 200 points
|-
|}
 
===Crusade===
 
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Mission
! Medal
! Score
|-
| Firekka (Series 1) 1
| Bronze Star
| 120 points
|-
| Firekka (Series 2) 1
| Silver Star
| 200 points
|-
| Firekka (Series 2) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 183 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Firekka (Series 3) 1
| Gold Star
| 200 points
|-
|-
| Goddard 2
| Corsair (Series 4) 1
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 250 points
|-
| Corsair (Series 6) 1
| Gold Star
| 275 points
|-
| Corsair (Series 7) 2
| Gold Star
| 277 points
|-
| Charon (Series 8) 1
| Gold Star
| 250 points
|-
| Charon (Series 9) 1
| Medal of Valor
| 100 points
| 100 points
|
|-
|}
 
===Super Wing Commander===
 
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Mission
! Medal
! Score
|-
| Cairo 3
| Silver Star
| 80 points
|-
| Anchorage 2
| Bronze Star
| 70 points
|-
| Anchorage 3
| Silver Star
| 55 points
|-
| Jakarta 2
| Bronze Star
| 80 points
|-
| Jakarta 3
| Gold Star
| 80 points
|-
|}
 
==Impossible Medals==
 
By design, Wing Commander assigns a medal for every mission but in many cases the required score can not be achieved. In many cases this is clearly an intentional decision to prevent the game from awarding a medal in practice by giving a required score of thousands of points. In some cases missions have scores which are much lower and may have been intended to award medals at some point.
 
===Vega Campaign===
 
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Mission
! Medal
! Score
|-
| Enyo 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
|-
| McAuliffe 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
|-
| Gateway 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
|-
| Gimle 2
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
|-
| Brimstone 1
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
|-
| Kurasawa 1
| Silver Star
| 185 points
|-
| Kurasawa 3
| Gold Star
| 161 points
|-
| Venice 2
| Gold Star
| 190 points
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 1
| Bronze Star
| 160 points
|-
| Hell's Kitchen 3
| Silver Star
| 161 points
|-
|}
 
===The Secret Missions===
 
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Mission
! Medal
! Score
|-
| Goddard 1
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
|-
|-
| Border Zone 1
| Border Zone 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Border Zone 2
| Border Zone 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9065 points
| 9065 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Midgard 1
| Midgard 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Midgard 2
| Midgard 2
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 9070 points
| 9070 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Jotunheim 1
| Jotunheim 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Jotunheim 2
| Jotunheim 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9065 points
| 9065 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Jotunheim 3
| Silver Star
| 0 points
|
|-
|-
| Bifrost 1
| Bifrost 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Bifrost 2
| Bifrost 2
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Valgard 1
| Valgard 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Valgard 2
| Valgard 2
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 9000 points
| 9000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Valgard 3
| Bronze Star
| 0 points
|
|-
|-
| Vigrid 1
| Vigrid 1
| Silver Star
| Silver Star
| 9650 points
| 9650 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Vigrid 2
| Gold Star
| 200 points
|
|-
|-
| Retreat 1
| Retreat 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9600 points
| 9600 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Retreat 2
| Retreat 2
| Gold Star
| Gold Star
| 9405 points
| 9405 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
|}
|}
Line 389: Line 540:
! Medal
! Medal
! Score
! Score
! Notes
|-
| Firekka (Series 1) 1
| Bronze Star
| 120 points
|
|-
|-
| Firekka (Series 1) 2
| Firekka (Series 1) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Firekka (Series 2) 1
| Silver Star
| 200 points
|
|-
| Firekka (Series 2) 2
| Bronze Star
| 183 points
|
|-
| Firekka (Series 3) 1
| Gold Star
| 200 points
|
|-
|-
| Firekka (Series 3) 2
| Firekka (Series 3) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Corsair (Series 4) 1
| Silver Star
| 250 points
|
|-
|-
| Corsair (Series 4) 2
| Corsair (Series 4) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Firekka (Series 5) 1
| Firekka (Series 5) 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Firekka (Series 5) 2
| Firekka (Series 5) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Corsair (Series 6) 1
| Gold Star
| 275 points
|
|-
|-
| Corsair (Series 6) 2
| Corsair (Series 6) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Corsair (Series 7) 1
| Corsair (Series 7) 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Corsair (Series 7) 2
| Gold Star
| 277 points
|
|-
| Charon (Series 8) 1
| Gold Star
| 250 points
|
|-
|-
| Charon (Series 8) 2
| Charon (Series 8) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Charon (Series 9) 1
| Medal of Valor
| 100 points
|
|-
|-
| Charon (Series 9) 2
| Charon (Series 9) 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 9999 points
| 9999 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
|}
|}


===Super Wing Commander===
===Super Wing Commander===
The final mission of Super Wing Commander, Jakarta 4, is scripted to award the player a Bronze Star for scoring 0 points. The game ends on an in-flight cutscene instead of a debriefing so no medal ceremony can occur.


{| class="wikitable"
{| class="wikitable"
Line 490: Line 588:
! Medal
! Medal
! Score
! Score
! Notes
|-
|-
| Tartarus 1
| Tartarus 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Tartarus 2
| Tartarus 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Cairo 1
| Cairo 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
|-
| Cairo 2
| Cairo 2
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Cairo 3
| Silver Star
| 80 points
|
|-
|-
| Anchorage 1
| Anchorage 1
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Anchorage 2
| Bronze Star
| 70 points
|
|-
| Anchorage 3
| Silver Star
| 55 points
|
|-
|-
| Jakarta 1
| Jakarta 1
| Gold Star
| Gold Star
| 2000 points
| 2000 points
| Score is not achievable
|-
| Jakarta 2
| Bronze Star
| 80 points
|
|-
| Jakarta 3
| Gold Star
| 80 points
|
|-
|-
| Jakarta 4
| Jakarta 4
| Bronze Star
| Bronze Star
| 0 points
| 0 points
| Not actually awarded
|-
|-
|}
|}

Latest revision as of 23:24, 7 April 2020

Wing Commander tracks the player's 'kill points' for each mission and uses this value to assign medals. Every enemy ship ship destroyed by the player is assigned a value based on its class and when the number of kill points reaches a scripted threshold at the end of a mission a medal is awarded.

Medal Graphics

Medal Art
Bronze Star WC Medal - Bronze Star.png
Bronze Star Bar WC Medal - Bronze Star Bar.png
Silver Star WC Medal - Silver Star.png
Silver Star Bar WC Medal - Silver Star Bar.png
Gold Star WC Medal - Gold Star.png
Gold Star Bar WC Medal - Gold Star Bar.png
Golden Sun WC Medal - Golden Sun.png
Medal of Valor WC Medal - Valor.png

Design

The design for Wing Commander's medal system was first presented in Wingleader Medals and Ribbons.

Wingman Death Bug

There are three instances in the Vega Campaign where an award is possible only when your wingman is killed. This is because the game deducts fifteen points from the overall 'mission point' score and then assigns that value back to the 'kill points' used for determining awards. The system for scoring mission points is very similar to kill points but it also awards 25 points for each enemy ace killed. As a result, killing an ace and also losing your wingman in Brimstone 2, Venice 1 or Hell's Kitchen 4 can result in a net gain of ten or more points and reaching the otherwise impossible scripted medal thresholds for those missions.

Scoring

Ship Score
Salthi 7 points
Dralthi 10 points
Krant 10 points
Rapier 10 points
Gratha 15 points
Jalthi 15 points
Dorkir 15 points
Lumbari 15 points
Drayman 15 points
Ralari 25 points
Exeter 25 points
Fralthi 50 points
Snakeir 50 points
Sivar 75 points
Star Post 75 points

Tally

Campaign Bronze Silver Gold Valor Total
Vega 9 13 6 2 30
The Secret Missions 2 1 1 0 4
Crusade 2 2 4 1 9
Super Wing Commander 2 2 1 0 5
Total 15 18 12 3 48

Notes

  • While there are 30 possible medals in the Vega Campaign, the most that can be awarded in a single play through is 20 (7 Bronze, 9 Silver, 3 Gold and 1 Medal of Valor). The path is Enyo to Gateway to Chengdu to Brimstone to Port Hedland to Hubble's Star to Rostov to Venice.
  • Following Carl LaFong's 'canon' path from Wing Commander I & II: The Ultimate Strategy Guide awards a total of 15 medals: 5 Bronze, 7 Silver, 2 Gold and 1 Medal of Valor (Enyo, McAuliffe, Brimstone, Dakota, Kurasawa, Rostov and Venice). Of these, he would not have earned the Silver Stars at Brimstone 2 or Venice 1 as his wingmen were not killed. The only medal explicitly mentioned as being awarded in the guide is the Bronze Star for Enyo 2.

Possible Medals

Vega Campaign

Mission Medal Score Notes
Enyo 2 Bronze Star 50 points
McAuliffe 2 Bronze Star 65 points
McAuliffe 3 Silver Star 80 points
Gateway 2 Silver Star 70 points
Gateway 3 Silver Star 55 points
Gimle 1 Gold Star 80 points
Gimle 3 Bronze Star 80 points
Brimstone 2 Silver Star 100 points Requires wingman's death and ace kill
Brimstone 3 Bronze Star 91 points
Chengdu 1 Gold Star 90 points
Chengdu 2 Bronze Star 90 points
Chengdu 3 Silver Star 95 points
Dakota 1 Silver Star 121 points
Dakota 2 Silver Star 91 points
Dakota 3 Gold Star 141 points
Port Hedland 1 Bronze Star 91 points
Port Hedland 2 Silver Star 91 points
Port Hedland 3 Gold Star 205 points
Kurasawa 2 Silver Star 90 points
Rostov 1 Bronze Star 120 points
Rostov 2 Silver Star 105 points
Rostov 3 Gold Star 110 points
Hubble's Star 1 Silver Star 125 points
Hubble's Star 2 Bronze Star 130 points
Hubble's Star 3 Silver Star 130 points
Venice 1 Silver Star 165 points Requires wingman's death and ace kill
Venice 3 Bronze Star 125 points
Venice 4 Medal of Valor 245 points
Hell's Kitchen 2 Gold Star 145 points
Hell's Kitchen 4 Medal of Valor 220 points Requires wingman's death and ace kill

The Secret Missions

Mission Medal Score
Goddard 2 Silver Star 100 points
Jotunheim 3 Bronze Star 0 points
Valgard 3 Bronze Star 0 points
Vigrid 2 Gold Star 200 points

Crusade

Mission Medal Score
Firekka (Series 1) 1 Bronze Star 120 points
Firekka (Series 2) 1 Silver Star 200 points
Firekka (Series 2) 2 Bronze Star 183 points
Firekka (Series 3) 1 Gold Star 200 points
Corsair (Series 4) 1 Silver Star 250 points
Corsair (Series 6) 1 Gold Star 275 points
Corsair (Series 7) 2 Gold Star 277 points
Charon (Series 8) 1 Gold Star 250 points
Charon (Series 9) 1 Medal of Valor 100 points

Super Wing Commander

Mission Medal Score
Cairo 3 Silver Star 80 points
Anchorage 2 Bronze Star 70 points
Anchorage 3 Silver Star 55 points
Jakarta 2 Bronze Star 80 points
Jakarta 3 Gold Star 80 points

Impossible Medals

By design, Wing Commander assigns a medal for every mission but in many cases the required score can not be achieved. In many cases this is clearly an intentional decision to prevent the game from awarding a medal in practice by giving a required score of thousands of points. In some cases missions have scores which are much lower and may have been intended to award medals at some point.

Vega Campaign

Mission Medal Score
Enyo 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
McAuliffe 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Gateway 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Gimle 2 Bronze Star 2000 points
Brimstone 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Kurasawa 1 Silver Star 185 points
Kurasawa 3 Gold Star 161 points
Venice 2 Gold Star 190 points
Hell's Kitchen 1 Bronze Star 160 points
Hell's Kitchen 3 Silver Star 161 points

The Secret Missions

Mission Medal Score
Goddard 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Border Zone 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Border Zone 2 Bronze Star 9065 points
Midgard 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Midgard 2 Silver Star 9070 points
Jotunheim 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Jotunheim 2 Bronze Star 9065 points
Bifrost 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Bifrost 2 Silver Star 9000 points
Valgard 1 Bronze Star 9000 points
Valgard 2 Silver Star 9000 points
Vigrid 1 Silver Star 9650 points
Retreat 1 Bronze Star 9600 points
Retreat 2 Gold Star 9405 points

Crusade

Mission Medal Score
Firekka (Series 1) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Firekka (Series 3) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Corsair (Series 4) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Firekka (Series 5) 1 Bronze Star 9999 points
Firekka (Series 5) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Corsair (Series 6) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Corsair (Series 7) 1 Bronze Star 9999 points
Charon (Series 8) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points
Charon (Series 9) 2 Bronze Star 9999 points

Super Wing Commander

The final mission of Super Wing Commander, Jakarta 4, is scripted to award the player a Bronze Star for scoring 0 points. The game ends on an in-flight cutscene instead of a debriefing so no medal ceremony can occur.

Mission Medal Score
Tartarus 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Tartarus 2 Bronze Star 2000 points
Cairo 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Cairo 2 Bronze Star 2000 points
Anchorage 1 Bronze Star 2000 points
Jakarta 1 Gold Star 2000 points
Jakarta 4 Bronze Star 0 points
Retrieved from "https://www.wcnews.com/wcpedia/index.php?title=Medal_System&oldid=38615"