Wing Commander RPG

Well, the whole vehicle and capship creation system is designed to be fairly modular. You pick the chassis you want to use, and based on that selection you get a set of base statistics and cost, and a limitation on how much stuff you can put on it (though that can be overridden in the case of vehicles, at the cost of seriously increasing the vehicle's price). You then pretty much pick whatever else you want to go on you ship. The full procedure will be in the finished game, so players and GM will be able to design their own craft. That should fill in any "missing" classes of craft players want to use. A lot of it in that case will be subjective, but then again so much is when you get down to the GM/player level.

Poorly thought out specifications......a fair amount of them I may just have to guess on. Like the P2 craft - there's no data on length there, and hence no way for me to determine their actual bounding box volume (and hence their Size Class). What will probably happen is an analysis of other craft of the same general type to see where their sizes fall, and putting those craft in the same general size category.

Weapons systems are another one...I intend to have as many of the unique weapons in there as I can, with something like a Class specification (like what you see in P1 with shields, engines and armor (to a lesser extent)), or perhaps declaring some of them to be "enhanced" or "military-grade". My original notion there was to have a "service entry date" for the various weapons systems; I may still do something along those lines. I have collected a fair amount of data on weapons, so we should have everybody covered.

Are there any specific instances you have in mind? I may not have fully understood the question. Hopefully I've answered it; let me know if I didn't.
 
Well things like the exceptionally poor shields, armor, and weapons loads of WC1 Capships and the hugely overpowered shields and armor of Prophicy era fighters are the 2 that most readely come to mind. Also thers the fact that most capships suffer a complete lack of capship guns and are armed in the games with simple rapid fire pop gun lasers instead. I mean really on most of these ships even their fighter protection guns fail miserable to perform and we really never see that fixed throughout the war from the game point of veiw
 
I see. My intention is to put all craft in WCRPG exactly as they are in the original games, and then to give the GMs/players the tools they need to change the specifications of those craft if they want to do so for their own adventures/campaigns. That way, if there are people who feel, like you do, that the early capships weren't strong enough or more capable of stopping enemy fighters, they can tweak them up to make them tougher, or tweak later-era fighters downward if that's their forte. Or just leave them as they are; the game's meant to be flexible like that.

On that same note, I will be asking for fan content as soon as the vehicle/ship creation routines are complete. Not only will this give me a good chance to test out the rules and make sure they are working okay, it'll let me know if the routines are worded as clearly as I think they are. Plus the stuff folks come up with will wind up in the game, so it's a good thing all around. A spruced-up Bengal or Fralthi would be much welcome in the non-canon catalog, I'm sure; just saying.
 
Well I've got an early war Battleship working up but I have no Heavy guns for her.

Really? What kind of armament would you like to put on it?

Actually, let's go one better - if you don't mind, that is - and try to build the WCRPG stats for it with the system that's in place. If we can't, it's a sure sign that I need to make some adjustments. And if we can, it's a good tutorial.

So the first step in WCRPG when building a new craft is always figuring out how big it is (actually, the design concept comes first; I'm assuming you've got this down already). If you have a list of dimensions (length, beam, draft), that's where we need to start. Or if you just want to say "it's about as big as an <insert class name>-class", that works too.
 
Well I don't know how big the pre war BBs where but I am currently leanning toward a ship between 1,000 -1,200m. Beam and draft would very over the ships length with the overall shape resembling Bengal, Exeter, and Gettysburg Classes with additional thruster banks of Confederation type. Mass would be (note here that listed game spec capship masses are far too low) between 2 and 2.5 million metric tons. Main Power system consists of 5 massive EM field compresion fusion reactors plus 5 smaller auxillery EM field Compresion reactors for addition power and emergency thruster operations. These reactors provide all primary and auxillery power. Emergency power is provided by several hardend Lithum ion battery banks located near important locations like the Main and Auxilery bridges, sickbay, CIC, Main Engineering, and the hanger bay. Power grid (TBD no data on WC equivalents)

Sublight propusion is provided by 4 thruster banks of 2 types. The primary system consists 6 larger thrusters in 2 banks of 3 mounted in the stern wings port and starboard. Secondary system consists of 2 Confederation type thruster banks monted centerline 1 dorsal, 1 ventral. Each contains 5 smaller trusters. Max speed is 150kps with scoops fully deployed. Cruise speed os 100 kps. Max Acceleration is 15kps. Manuvering ability is 2dps y/p/r. The ship mounts a single Akwende Drive 550m forward of the stern capable of generating a jump field 1,500m in diameter. No provision is made for a secondary jump drive at this time.

Crew (TBD no way to completly calculate yet) includes 200 man Marine security force and 2 squadrons of recon/light fighters. Ship maintains 3 duty shifts of 8 hours and full health care facilties plus limited training and R&R including a full gym, 3 full crew messes, 1 officer's mess, 1 NCO lounge ,and 1 OC lounge. Senior officers bearth in single rooms with head. Junior officers, Warrent ratings and NCOs bearth in 2 man rooms with shaired heads. All other crew bearth in 6 man rooms with shaired heads. Hanger facilities to include room for 2 light fighter squadrons plus 8 large shuttles, 4 medium shuttles, 2 Marine LCs, and 1 flag shuttle. Provisions for escape pods/lifeboats to include 120% crew to insure sufficent avaliable units should the ship and hanger both have recieved major damage. Onboard provisions for 2 months and planet fall capability to be included in all units as well as full comms and disaster beacons with manual controls to aid in enemy evasion. All pods will contain advanced first aid gear for treating wounded. Unsupplied cruise duration is 1 year.

Sensors(TBD no data WC systems) Max effective combat range 45,000km

Defensive systems Shields type Phase Equivalent armor = 2,000cm regeneration = 120cmps The shields are of the standard phase type found on most Capital ships. 6 generators act to modualte the strong nuclear force of the contained gas field and multiple vents all over the hull allow for rapid regeneration of the gas field. Gas supplies are rated for 140 combat hours. Hull Armor is 750cm forward/aft and 1100cm port/starboard. Provision exist for reparing armor damage on board. However major breaches with structual damage will requier yard layover.

Weapons AA systems to include 20 dual mount mass driver turrets allong the port and starboard in dorsal and ventral mounts and 12 dual mount nutron cannon turrets in dorsal and ventral custers forward and aft. Turret armor = 20cm. Forward and aft missile luanchers will have seperate Imrec and IFF magazines with CASE systems installed. Each launcher will have 6 vertical launch tube in the dorsal surface set in an armored barbett.
Secondary batteries to be composed of 16 2 gun armored AMG turrets in groups of 4 mounted around the dorsal and ventral superstructers in broadsides. Armor = 50cm.
Main Batteries (TBD no data) in 9 3 gun armored turrets. Arrangment is as follows 3 turrets in dorsal centerline mounts forward of superstructure with elevation increasing front to back, 2 turrets in ventral centerline mounts forward of superstructure with elevation increasing front to back, 4 turrets aft inboard on the wings mounted 2 dorsal and 2 ventral. All turrets have "over the shoulder" arcs. Armor = 150cm.

Ok for the main Batteries I am basicly thinking either large bore mass drivers or larger slug nutron cannons since these seam to be the best canidates for upscaling based on what I know about WC wepons tech. HE and AP rounds for the mass drivers is also a consideration. I am also considering some form of Capship missile system of torpedo tubes but need to resolve the Main Battery problem before I can see if these are needed or even practical.
 
Alright, then...haven't been meaning to ignore you today; just been seeing how I would put this together in the game, and it doesn't help that things aren't completely set in stone just yet.

First thing's first: excellent concept. Not a lot of them start off with quite that much information...it easily covers the first two steps in the procedure, concept and user.

Third step in the procedure is selecting a chassis and weight, which is heavily influenced by size. Okay...so, a couple of months ago I did a "pixel count" of several craft from WC1, including the Bengal and Exeter-classes (I didn't recognize the Gettysburg as a seperate class back then; for purposes of this discussion, that craft doesn't matter since it uses the exact same model as the Exeter-class). Assuming the images were to scale with one another, and given their lengths from the listed statistics, that enabled me to calculate their final overall volume. In also allowed me to find the ratio between draught and length, and the ratio between beam and length for both craft. Using an average value for beam and an average value of draught for the Bengal and Exeter, and setting the length at 1,100 meters (somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200, as you put it above), this let me calculate a draught of about 185 meters and a beam of about 670 meters or so. Simple length times width time height gave a bounding box volume of just over 250 million cubic meters, which by the WCRPG rules, puts this craft at Size Class 26. There are only two available chassis at SC26, the Medium Battlecruiser or the Medium Dreadnought (the difference between the two is that the Battlecruiser is cheaper and harder to hit, while the Dreadnought can carry a larger number of accessories). For what you're building, the Dreadnought made more sense.

Fourth step is to start picking out equipment. With the way WCRPG's system is set up, you can make your selections based upon the desired stats if you have them (which you do in this case). For example, for 150 dps maximum normal speed, you'd pick an Eighth Class Engine. Phase Shields are an accessory; to get the 2000 cm equivalency, you'd set the five Backup Shield Generators (again, an accessory) and the main shield to all hold the same class of Shield at 333 cm; this equates to six Fourth Class Shields (five of which would have to count as accessories). Armor averages out to 925 centimeters of Durasteel equivalent; here I had to fudge so that the ship's Hit Difficulty ratings wouldn't go through the roof, and changed it to 185 cm Titanium (the next equivalent step up).

Accessories are next. The Medium Dreadnought can hold 104 accessories total; here's how it broke down in this case:
Capship Systems Adapter (for the the Engine; normal maximum engine class for a Dreadnought is Fourth Class)
48 Dual Gun Turrets
12 Missile Racks
9 Triple Armored Gun Turrets
Hospital Module
ECM Module
SWACS Module
Repair Bay Module
Auxiliary Reactor Mount x5
Quarter Hangar Bay Module
Carrier Systems x4
Backup Shield Generator x5
--Class Four Shield x5
Phase Shields
9 Expendable Pod Mounts
--9 Escape Pod Units (set to 256 0.195 m^3 pods each)

I might have this step wrong; I think I'm supposed to add additional engines to the Auxiliary Reactor Mounts to see any benefit from them whatsoever. Draft run and all that. I know what most of this stuff is supposed to do; the "armored gun turret" is new (as in new today), so I haven't figured out what its effects are going to be.

The escape pod count gave me an estimated desired crew of about 1,900; crew compliment is the next step and I haven't worked through it just yet. This would be a good place to get a breather anyway.

Haven't put any weapons on there just yet, just the mounts. Still working through the main guns myself...am I correct in assuming for them you want something stronger than AMGs?

Obviously I still need to do a little more work on my end. How is it looking so far? Anywhere close?
 
Ok first thing I see is in the guns. The AMG guns of the secondary battery are of a larger type then the AA guns. Also the secondary and main battery turret's guns can fire independently of the other guns in the same turrets. They aren't fire linked like the AA guns though they can be if need be. Second I have a question, is there a reason the missles are mounted as a seperate luncher per tube instead of as 2 launchers of 6? Third another question what's the differenc between hanger and carrier systems?

I might have this step wrong; I think I'm supposed to add additional engines to the Auxiliary Reactor Mounts to see any benefit from them whatsoever.

Well that woudn't actually match the physical arrangement of equipment as I designed it. The physical arrangment is linear. You have the aux reactor then a power taps then a main reactor then the drive plasma distrabution block then the thrusters. This arrangment allows the aux reactors to chanel limited amounts of drive plasma throught the system should the main reactors fail for any reason. Of course this assumes the thrusters are still intacked and functional but considering what one of these costs to build one of these things bring a damaged hull home for repairs would be a priority.

The escape pod count gave me an estimated desired crew of about 1,900; crew compliment is the next step and I haven't worked through it just yet.

Just a question but wouldn't be better to determine crew by maintance and fire control needs rather then the number of escape pods?

Haven't put any weapons on there just yet, just the mounts. Still working through the main guns myself...am I correct in assuming for them you want something stronger than AMGs?

Yea I see the AMGs as the equivalent to the 5 in guns used on smaller warship and as secondary guns by BBs in WW2. The main guns should be equivalent to 16 in guns. Now would probably be a good time to come up with a 8 in equivalent for heavy cruisers. What I was thinking the gun needs much higher damage potential and better range. Because of the relativly low speed of WC projectiles this make ioniesed plasma weapons a poor choice as the damage potental of the weapon will degrade very fast after a short time. WC coherent light weapos have very low DP. That leaves slug throwers like the mass drivers and nutron guns. They should scale better and shouldn't have the range limitations of the energy based weapons.
 
Ok first thing I see is in the guns. The AMG guns of the secondary battery are of a larger type then the AA guns. Also the secondary and main battery turret's guns can fire independently of the other guns in the same turrets. They aren't fire linked like the AA guns though they can be if need be.

Well, the way combat is set up in the game, turret size doesn't matter so much as turret function (i.e. there is no "small dual gun turret", "medium dual gun turret", and "really freakin' huge gun turret", just a single "dual gun turret"). The dual gun turret is set up so that the guns mounted in them can be set to alternating fire or fire-linked (that's in their description; what I get for not listing this stuff out).

Here's the specific descriptive text for the Dual Gun Turret: "Allows two Guns of the same type to be mounted into the same turret. The weapons may be fired singly or linked; if linked, they must fire into the same arc at the same target. The weapons must be bought separately, but do not count as additional accessories."

I tell you what I could do...I could go ahead and uprate the AMG turrets from standard to armored. I still haven't come up with game effects for armored turrets just yet, but that would at least enable a distinction to be made between the two; the turret configuration would change to 32 Dual Gun Turrets, 16 Armored Dual Gun Turrets, and 9 Armored Triple Gun Turrets.

Second I have a question, is there a reason the missles are mounted as a seperate luncher per tube instead of as 2 launchers of 6?

That was a mis-read on my part. Sorry about that.

The game doesn't have a hex turret in it for either missiles or guns; the largest standard turret size is a quad turret. I do have plans to put in a gatling gun rack and a "gatling missile rack"; probably the gatling missile rack is closest to what you're gunning for here. Only other thing I could do is put in some missile turret combo that adds up to twelve tubes total...either six Dual Missile Turrets or four Triple Missile Turrets.

Third another question what's the difference between hanger and carrier systems?

The Hangar is simply the space you need to store the fighters. A Quarter Hangar Bay Module allows "a volume of space up to the minimum safe bounding box amount eight Size Classes smaller than the vehicle itself devoted to sheltering "child" vehicles". In this case, since we said it was SC26, you could go as high as the minimum bound for SC18, about 600,000 cubic meters. There are larger and smaller types of Hangar Bay Modules; the one I picked was a guess, put it seemed a good guess; for reference, I calculated the volume of a Ferret at a little over 219 cubic meters. You can move space devoted to either accommodation or cargo over to additional hangar space if needed with the way the system's set up.

Carrier Systems is the launch and recovery gear; with four of them, the ship could launch four craft and/or recover four craft simultaneously. Without Carrier Systems, the ship is basically a heavily armored fighter transport ship (and I set the system up that way - so that some ships could carry fighters, but not launch them - on purpose).
Well that woudn't actually match the physical arrangement of equipment as I designed it. The physical arrangement is linear. You have the aux reactor then a power taps then a main reactor then the drive plasma distrabution block then the thrusters. This arrangment allows the aux reactors to chanel limited amounts of drive plasma throught the system should the main reactors fail for any reason. Of course this assumes the thrusters are still intact and functional but considering what one of these costs to build one of these things bring a damaged hull home for repairs would be a priority.

Ah, okay. So...let's say the main reactor does fail and propulsive power has to be handled by the auxiliary reactors. What would be the ship's desired performance characteristics in that scenario (barring any other damage or systemic failures)?

Just a question but wouldn't be better to determine crew by maintance and fire control needs rather then the number of escape pods?

It would, of course, and there is a procedure for determining crew compliment in the game (one of the things for which Size Class is used). It's just that I was running out accessory space and you said there needed to be a sufficient number of pods for 120% of the crew, so I estimated the crew that way. We do have some changes that look like they need to be made to accessories, so we might be able to open up more space.

If you were to take a guess, where would you put the crew compliment at? Somewhere between a WWII Iowa-Class Battleship and a modern day Nimitz-class Carrier (somewhere between two and five thousand)?

Yea I see the AMGs as the equivalent to the 5 in guns used on smaller warship and as secondary guns by BBs in WW2. The main guns should be equivalent to 16 in guns. Now would probably be a good time to come up with a 8 in equivalent for heavy cruisers. What I was thinking the gun needs much higher damage potential and better range. Because of the relativly low speed of WC projectiles this make ioniesed plasma weapons a poor choice as the damage potental of the weapon will degrade very fast after a short time. WC coherent light weapos have very low DP. That leaves slug throwers like the mass drivers and nutron guns. They should scale better and shouldn't have the range limitations of the energy based weapons.

Hmmm......I do have plans to put in a weapon called a "slugthrower" into WCRPG as a possible weapon for capital ships (slugthrower being just a generic term for a gun that fires a kinetic energy impactor - a bullet, in other words). But I digress...

Weapons really are the least developed portion of the whole system at the moment (mainly because I really couldn't carry anything over from SFRPG along those lines; the two universes are fairly different on that point). Right now the way things sit I have antimatter guns rated at "x/8/300", meaning each AMG has a range of eight (8,000 km) and does 300 points of damage (each damage point being roughly equivalent to 0.1 cm Durasteel; 30 centimeters in this case, the listed rating for AMGs). The final weapon design will have a recharge and magazine rating (i.e. how many shots you can get out of the gun for a point of fuel), but right now I haven't got that information.

There really isn't anything canonical for something both pre-war stronger than an AMG with better range. So, I'm thinking custom gear...how much of a range improvement over the AMG and how much more destructive? And why would it not be incorporated into later designs of ships?

Won't really be able to finish the game stats for the ship until I get the weapons done. Fortunately, that's my main agenda point for the next week or two.


Gonna sign off for now. One last question - have you considered a name for this craft? Is it just the one ship, or does it represent a whole Class?
 
Well, the way combat is set up in the game, turret size doesn't matter so much as turret function (i.e. there is no "small dual gun turret", "medium dual gun turret", and "really freakin' huge gun turret", just a single "dual gun turret"). The dual gun turret is set up so that the guns mounted in them can be set to alternating fire or fire-linked (that's in their description; what I get for not listing this stuff out).

Here's the specific descriptive text for the Dual Gun Turret: "Allows two Guns of the same type to be mounted into the same turret. The weapons may be fired singly or linked; if linked, they must fire into the same arc at the same target. The weapons must be bought separately, but do not count as additional accessories."

I tell you what I could do...I could go ahead and uprate the AMG turrets from standard to armored. I still haven't come up with game effects for armored turrets just yet, but that would at least enable a distinction to be made between the two; the turret configuration would change to 32 Dual Gun Turrets, 16 Armored Dual Gun Turrets, and 9 Armored Triple Gun Turrets.

How are you mounting the turrets? are the 1 space per turret or per gun? The way imagine it you would need 4 sizes; AA, small, medium, and large.
AA turrets mount fighter scale guns in single-quad. Small turrets are the first cap grade turret. They are the main guns for destroyers and secondary guns on cruisers and battleships. AMGs fit in this range. They are the partical/ion cannon of the range. Plasma cannon, mass drivers, and nutron guns are also practical at this scale. Meson guns and tachyon guns may also be workable in later era ships. They would have single or 2 gun mounts. Medium turrets are curiser grade turrets. AMGs and plasma cannons are workable at this size but should actually see a range fall off because of the difficaulty in compressing such large volume of plasma and the high rate of thermal energy loss. At this size Kenetic damage weapons will have significant range advantages over plasma based ones. Mass drivers and nutron cannons would likely be preferred choices. Meson and tachyon guns might be doable but the energy requierments would be massive. Medium turrets would come in 2, 3, and 4 gun mounts. Large turrets are the battleship grade turrets. Like the mediums they would com in 2, 3, and 4 gun mounts. These will be trully massive weapons. Because of the way WC game handle energy weapons Mass Drivers and Nutron guns ar the only ones I think are workable at this size. For the armor just armor each turret indavidually just like you did the ship. In game macanics have the turrets be able to be picked out like a called shot at close and point blank range. Fighters would obiously be able to target any specific location they wish.

What would be the ship's desired performance characteristics in that scenario (barring any other damage or systemic failures)?

I figure 25% of normal thrust. It should just be enough to limp home. If they close the scoops they can still build up good speed; it will just take longer. The way they talk about the scoops causing drag in the WC bible they might not actually lose any raw speed just manuvering and acceleration on the aux system.

If you were to take a guess, where would you put the crew compliment at? Somewhere between a WWII Iowa-Class Battleship and a modern day Nimitz-class Carrier (somewhere between two and five thousand)?

I really don't see how it could take more then 3,000 people to man the ship. Probable closer too 2,500 counting marines and airwing staff. I can see building out the crew spases to handle 3,000 men. It would give the ship some flexablity to support spec ops or handle extray Flag staff for a fleet command roll for things like planetary assults.

Hmmm......I do have plans to put in a weapon called a "slugthrower" into WCRPG as a possible weapon for capital ships (slugthrower being just a generic term for a gun that fires a kinetic energy impactor - a bullet, in other words). But I digress...

Weapons really are the least developed portion of the whole system at the moment (mainly because I really couldn't carry anything over from SFRPG along those lines; the two universes are fairly different on that point). Right now the way things sit I have antimatter guns rated at "x/8/300", meaning each AMG has a range of eight (8,000 km) and does 300 points of damage (each damage point being roughly equivalent to 0.1 cm Durasteel; 30 centimeters in this case, the listed rating for AMGs). The final weapon design will have a recharge and magazine rating (i.e. how many shots you can get out of the gun for a point of fuel), but right now I haven't got that information.

There really isn't anything canonical for something both pre-war stronger than an AMG with better range. So, I'm thinking custom gear...how much of a range improvement over the AMG and how much more destructive? And why would it not be incorporated into later designs of ships?

Won't really be able to finish the game stats for the ship until I get the weapons done. Fortunately, that's my main agenda point for the next week or two.

Well lest see what I can come up with here. Let use the AMG and fighter partical cannon for scale. AMG is like you said 130nj/8km/30cm. FPC is 11nj/3.4km/4.3cm. so Here we go

Destroyer grade guns
AMG 130nj/8km/30cm
Class1 Cap Mass Driver 144nj/8.8km/32cm
Class1 Cap Nutron Gun 180nj/9.4km/28cm
Class1 Cap Plasma gun 528nj/7km/47cm
Class1 Cap Tachyon gun 480nj/7.5km/49cm
Class1 Cap Meson gun 192nj/10.6km/25cm
Cruiser grade guns
Class2 AMG 520nj/10.8km/48cm
Class2 Cap Mass Driver 288nj/14km/51cm
Class2 Cap Nutron gun 360nj/15km/45cm
Class2 Cap Plasma Gun 2112nj/9.2km/75cm
Class2 Cap Tachyon gun 1920nj/12km/78cm
Class2 Cap Meson gun 768nj/17km/40cm
Battleship grade guns
Class3 Cap Mass Driver 960nj/25km/153cm
Class3 Cap Nutron gun 1250nj/30km/135cm
Class3 Cap Tachyon gun 7680nj/24km/156cm

Hows these for starters? I've tried to incorperate my experiance with simalar weapons from other scifi and what I understand of physics. In my experiance energy weapons don't scale like more conventional weapons. The power requierments go up way faster then useful damage. Theres also the cooling requierments for such massive guns.

One last question - have you considered a name for this craft? Is it just the one ship, or does it represent a whole Class?

Tentativly I'm leaning toward Montana Class or Vangaurd Class. I invision her primary missions to be carrier battlegroup escort, fleet fire support, fleet air defence and enemy battleship interdiction. After the 1st month of the war Confed was behind not just in the number of carriers but also in battleships. Enemy battleships represnted a significant threat to convoys, lighter instelations, and carriers in fleet engagments. Faced with the obvious disparity in numbers fleet planers had too assume that enemy battleships would be able to close to gun range in a determined attack. The only answer was to station there own battleships with the carriers in a body gaurd sort of role. New battleships would need massive firepower to quickly destroy enemy warships before they reached the carrier and a comprehncive air defence for both it's self and to protect the carrier from massed bomber attacks.
 
The game doesn't have a hex turret in it for either missiles or guns; the largest standard turret size is a quad turret. I do have plans to put in a gatling gun rack and a "gatling missile rack"; probably the gatling missile rack is closest to what you're gunning for here. Only other thing I could do is put in some missile turret combo that adds up to twelve tubes total...either six Dual Missile Turrets or four Triple Missile Turrets.

Its not a turret. Its a VLS launch system with dual feeding magazines and an AEGIS style fire control. It won't just volly missiles nonstop. Instead it selctivly engages multiple targets simultaneously by order of priority. Each launcher can engae up to 6 different targets or can direct multiple missiles onto higher value targets like bombers or torpedos or capship missiles.
 
Good Monday, Wingnuts. It's Monday and time for the weekly WCRPG update.

This last week saw the beginning of new material specifically for WCRPG, and as I mentioned in my last update, that effort began with the creation of the first three race profiles, specifically the Terrans, Kilrathi and Firekkans (Chapters 2.2.1, 2.2.2, and 2.2.3, respectively). After building a "generic race" image (a stick figure that says, in admittedly improper English, "I be sapient"), I moved on to the Terran profile. I was able to save a fair amount from the SFRPG Human profile on that one, so the Terran profile only took a day or so. The Terran image is one from WC3 of the bridge of Victory, shortly before Thrakhath issues challenge to Blair (and triggers Hobbes personality overlay). The Kilrathi profile proved a little trickier, taking two days and finally seeing completion Wednesday morning. I had originally picked an image of Prince Thrakhath from WC3 for the Kilrathi image, but later decided to go with one from WC2 (no offense to the folks that brought us WC3, but the Kilrathi in WC2 just look more like cats, IMHO). The Firekkan profile was done as a bit of double-duty work; see, when I was building the rules for creature creation in Chapter 10.2.7, I chose the Firekkans as the example for how to build a sapient race. So by building the Firekkans, I was also able to fill in those examples. The Firekkan profile was finished on Thursday, and I'm happy to report that Chapter 10.2.7 is now 100% complete. I also made some adjustments to the remaining blank profile pages to get them more in line with the format of the three completed profile pages this week.

If you're keeping track, that's four sub-Chapters completed just this week.

I would like a peer review of the three race profiles written so far, just to see what y'all think, to answer any questions and to see if there's anything particularly important that has been left out. The Terran profile is here, the Kilrathi profile is here, and the Firekkan profile is here.

Friday saw work re-commence on Chapters 6.2.3 and 7.2.2, which is where I still am at the moment. Those of you who have been following this thread have seen the work that's been done on trying to build starfox1701's battleship, which is going on while I'm still trying to reconcile changes between the Starflight and Wing Commander universe (haven't forgotten about you, starfox1701, just had a busy Sunday). The discussion so far is leading me towards a reworking of the rack/turret system from SFRPG. We do have more than one problem there (insert Jay-Z quote here if you wish), but that's the one I'm focusing on at the moment. We probably won't get his ship 100% done until I've had more of a chance to rework the accessories and weapons lists; I'm hoping that work will be finished by the end of the week. Meantime, some of the outstanding changes have been made to the accessories list in Chapter 6.2.3.

The grand master plan is still proceeding on track. 6.2.3 and 7.2.2 are up in the chute, followed by the completion of Chapter Five.

WCRPG sits at 71.82% complete as of this morning.
 
Alright, starfox. Got an idea to run past you real quick; lemme know what you think.

What I want to do is scrap the current set of gun/missile turrets I have in favor of a more generic "weapons station" accessory. I've given this a fair amount of thought over the last couple of days, and I think I can do this without making things overly complex; the only real issue I haven't worked out is how costs would be affected.

So, here's how I envision it working. Each weapon station would use a set of descriptors that would lay out its general function. The descriptors would be listed out as <qualifiers> <weapon type> <arc coverage>, <magazine>. At the moment, I have the following sets of descriptors.

QUALIFIERS
1. ARMORED (military user only) - induces one point of DR to weapon type when systems damage indicated. May change this effect; "called shots" are enabled through the Targeting action in combat right now, which could supercede the existing damage engine.
2. GATLING (military user only) - allows rapid fire.
3. MULTI-FIRE - weapon station may have more than one gun/launcher attached. Number of weapons referred to by Latin adjective, may be shortened (dual, triple, quad, quint, dodec, etc.). Causes an attendent increase in price of the accessory.

WEAPON TYPE
1. GUN - specifically for guns.
2. MISSILE - specifically for light ordnance.
3. TORPEDO - specifically for heavy ordnance or specialized equipment.
4. SPECIAL - specifically for anything that's not a gun, missile or torpedo.

ARC COVERAGE
1. HARDPOINT (only type available in the Metal Age) - single weapon gun/missile only. Guns can only fire directly ahead.
2. SPONSON - Weapon covers a single combat arc.
3. BARBETTE - Weapon covers two arcs.
4. LIMITED TURRET - Weapon covers three arcs.
5. TURRET - Weapon covers all four arcs.

MAGAZINE (multiple missiles and torpedoes only; can also be qualified)
1. TUBE - magazine of up to ten weapons.
2. BANK - magazine of up to 25 weapons. Limited to DFs/Rockets on Fightercraft/Capsules/Shuttles.
3. BAY - magazine of up to 100 weapons. Limited to capships only.

This would give the weapons station tremendous flexibility - you could have something as simple as a Gun Hardpoint (for a single gun that can only shoot straight ahead), or something as complex as, say, an Armored Gatling Novem Torpedo Limited Turret, Double Bay (for a system that can rapidly fire up to nine torpedoes at one time, with the ability to absorb some damage and fire into three different arcs, containing up to 200 torpedoes in its magazine). Of course, this flexibility comes at the cost of simplicity; this would make the weapons station accessory by far the most complex accessory to deal with in the game. I wouldn't be able to explicitly list out each and every combination of weapon station that would be available in the game like I have now; that'd add a lot of text for not a lot of effect.

Lemme take a quick look at the weapons systems we've described for the battleship, and see how things would translate real quick. Here's the list again:
  • AA systems to include 20 dual mount mass driver turrets allong the port and starboard in dorsal and ventral mounts. Turret armor = 20cm.
  • 12 dual mount neutron cannon turrets in dorsal and ventral custers forward and aft. Turret armor = 20cm.
  • Forward and aft missile luanchers will have seperate Imrec and IFF magazines with CASE systems installed. Each launcher will have 6 vertical launch tube in the dorsal surface set in an armored barbette.
  • Secondary batteries to be composed of 16 2 gun armored AMG turrets in groups of 4 mounted around the dorsal and ventral superstructers in broadsides. Armor = 50cm.
  • Main Batteries (TBD no data) in 9 3 gun armored turrets. Arrangment is as follows 3 turrets in dorsal centerline mounts forward of superstructure with elevation increasing front to back, 2 turrets in ventral centerline mounts forward of superstructure with elevation increasing front to back, 4 turrets aft inboard on the wings mounted 2 dorsal and 2 ventral. All turrets have "over the shoulder" arcs
Okay...so here's how I see your ship's weapons with this system:

Weapons Station x 63
  • Armored Dual Gun Sponson x 32 ((10 Port, 10 Starboard; Mass Driver), (6 Fore, 6 Aft; Neutron Gun))
  • Hex Missile Turret, Double Bank x 2 (12 ImRec, 12 IFF each, standard) Mag size is a guess, and I still haven't been able to figure out just what a "CASE" system is supposed to be.
  • Armored Dual Gun Limited Turret x 16 ((8 Fore/Port/Aft; Antimatter Gun), (8 Fore/Starboard/Aft; Antimatter Gun))
  • Armored Triple Gun Turret x 9 (<final heavy gun selection>)
Again, let me know if I've got a mistake here. Does this whole thing sound like something that'd work better than what I have now?
 
Probably oughta mention that there are now and will be only four combat arcs in WCRPG. It's an old argument; I know space is 3-dimensional and thus there should be a dorsal and ventral combat arc. However, 3D combat would do nothing more than add a range modifier, and in the process make movement far more complex. Practically, it's difficult and time-consuming to represent 3D combat using the common systems used for tabletop games, so WCRPG will stick to the simpler model.
 
Good Monday, Wingnuts. It's Monday and time for the weekly WCRPG update.

This last week saw the beginning of new material specifically for WCRPG, and as I mentioned in my last update, that effort began with the creation of the first three race profiles, specifically the Terrans, Kilrathi and Firekkans (Chapters 2.2.1, 2.2.2, and 2.2.3, respectively). After building a "generic race" image (a stick figure that says, in admittedly improper English, "I be sapient"), I moved on to the Terran profile. I was able to save a fair amount from the SFRPG Human profile on that one, so the Terran profile only took a day or so. The Terran image is one from WC3 of the bridge of Victory, shortly before Thrakhath issues challenge to Blair (and triggers Hobbes personality overlay). The Kilrathi profile proved a little trickier, taking two days and finally seeing completion Wednesday morning. I had originally picked an image of Prince Thrakhath from WC3 for the Kilrathi image, but later decided to go with one from WC2 (no offense to the folks that brought us WC3, but the Kilrathi in WC2 just look more like cats, IMHO). The Firekkan profile was done as a bit of double-duty work; see, when I was building the rules for creature creation in Chapter 10.2.7, I chose the Firekkans as the example for how to build a sapient race. So by building the Firekkans, I was also able to fill in those examples. The Firekkan profile was finished on Thursday, and I'm happy to report that Chapter 10.2.7 is now 100% complete. I also made some adjustments to the remaining blank profile pages to get them more in line with the format of the three completed profile pages this week.

If you're keeping track, that's four sub-Chapters completed just this week.

I would like a peer review of the three race profiles written so far, just to see what y'all think, to answer any questions and to see if there's anything particularly important that has been left out. The Terran profile is here, the Kilrathi profile is here, and the Firekkan profile is here.

Friday saw work re-commence on Chapters 6.2.3 and 7.2.2, which is where I still am at the moment. Those of you who have been following this thread have seen the work that's been done on trying to build starfox1701's battleship, which is going on while I'm still trying to reconcile changes between the Starflight and Wing Commander universe (haven't forgotten about you, starfox1701, just had a busy Sunday). The discussion so far is leading me towards a reworking of the rack/turret system from SFRPG. We do have more than one problem there (insert Jay-Z quote here if you wish), but that's the one I'm focusing on at the moment. We probably won't get his ship 100% done until I've had more of a chance to rework the accessories and weapons lists; I'm hoping that work will be finished by the end of the week. Meantime, some of the outstanding changes have been made to the accessories list in Chapter 6.2.3.

The grand master plan is still proceeding on track. 6.2.3 and 7.2.2 are up in the chute, followed by the completion of Chapter Five.

WCRPG sits at 71.82% complete as of this morning.

Looks very intersting. I'll tak a look later and get back to you on these.

So, here's how I envision it working. Each weapon station would use a set of descriptors that would lay out its general function. The descriptors would be listed out as <qualifiers> <weapon type> <arc coverage>, <magazine>. At the moment, I have the following sets of descriptors.

QUALIFIERS
1. ARMORED (military user only) - induces one point of DR to weapon type when systems damage indicated. May change this effect; "called shots" are enabled through the Targeting action in combat right now, which could supercede the existing damage engine.
2. GATLING (military user only) - allows rapid fire.
3. MULTI-FIRE - weapon station may have more than one gun/launcher attached. Number of weapons referred to by Latin adjective, may be shortened (dual, triple, quad, quint, dodec, etc.). Causes an attendent increase in price of the accessory.

WEAPON TYPE
1. GUN - specifically for guns.
2. MISSILE - specifically for light ordnance.
3. TORPEDO - specifically for heavy ordnance or specialized equipment.
4. SPECIAL - specifically for anything that's not a gun, missile or torpedo.

ARC COVERAGE
1. HARDPOINT (only type available in the Metal Age) - single weapon gun/missile only. Guns can only fire directly ahead.
2. SPONSON - Weapon covers a single combat arc.
3. BARBETTE - Weapon covers two arcs.
4. LIMITED TURRET - Weapon covers three arcs.
5. TURRET - Weapon covers all four arcs.

MAGAZINE (multiple missiles and torpedoes only; can also be qualified)
1. TUBE - magazine of up to ten weapons.
2. BANK - magazine of up to 25 weapons. Limited to DFs/Rockets on Fightercraft/Capsules/Shuttles.
3. BAY - magazine of up to 100 weapons. Limited to capships only.

This would give the weapons station tremendous flexibility - you could have something as simple as a Gun Hardpoint (for a single gun that can only shoot straight ahead), or something as complex as, say, an Armored Gatling Novem Torpedo Limited Turret, Double Bay (for a system that can rapidly fire up to nine torpedoes at one time, with the ability to absorb some damage and fire into three different arcs, containing up to 200 torpedoes in its magazine). Of course, this flexibility comes at the cost of simplicity; this would make the weapons station accessory by far the most complex accessory to deal with in the game. I wouldn't be able to explicitly list out each and every combination of weapon station that would be available in the game like I have now; that'd add a lot of text for not a lot of effect.

I think you may be on to somthing but is see a few problems.
first
3. TORPEDO - specifically for heavy ordnance or specialized equipment.
ok this is a bit to ambigous. There is the problem that these weapons can very widly in size and that will effect the number of rounds that fit in a given volume of space alot. How about this

3. TORPEDO - Heavy antiship/antistation missiles
4. CAPITAL SHIP MISSILES - Massive weapons with standoff range and onboard target aquisition gear. (TAG) Theas can attack the surface of planets too.
5. MINES - Stand alone ordinace with limited movement capabilities and sofisticated TAG. These are normaly used as area denial weapons or as part of fixed fortifactions.
6. SPECIAL - specifically for anything that's not a gun, missile, mine, or torpedo.
The second problem is here
ARC COVERAGE
1. HARDPOINT (only type available in the Metal Age) - single weapon gun/missile only. Guns can only fire directly ahead.
2. SPONSON - Weapon covers a single combat arc.
3. BARBETTE - Weapon covers two arcs.
4. LIMITED TURRET - Weapon covers three arcs.
5. TURRET - Weapon covers all four arcs.
None of these trems have anything to do with arc coverage. Most are literally all types of gun mounts. That said mount type is also important info important and needed information. Limited turrets should be droped because this is a kind of open armored vehical turret and thay arn't used anymore because they compromise crew protection. Barbette should be droped from the list because it means the same thing as sponson in old termanology and in for modern naval weapons means this
In warships from the age of the dreadnought forward, the barbette is the non-rotating drum beneath the rotating gun turret (properly known as the "gunhouse") and above the armoured deck on a warship. It forms the protection for the upper ends of the hoists that lift shells and their propelling charges (e.g. cordite) from the magazines below
So it should read somthing more like this

MOUNT TYPE
1. HARDPOINT - single weapon gun/ missile only. Used primarily by fighters and small craft. Ground assult guns and coaxial weapons also use this type of mount. Guns can only fire directly ahead. Missiles only track targets in the forward arc.
2. SPONSON - Hull mounted single/dual gun or lunch tube. Naval gun mount capable of using up to a full hemephearical fireing arc. Advantages include reasonable fields of fire and the inclution of the mount inside the ships own hull armor protection which saves tonage and therfore costs less overall to equip on the ship. Disadvantages include limites to the number of guns in each mount and an inablity to mount all of the larger classes of guns. Sponsons are also far more harder to repair or upgrade because it usally involve major hull work too.
3. TURRET - Fully inclosed weapons comprised of 1 or more indvidual guns mounted on the surface of a vehicle. Turrets can be independently armored and have excelent fields of fire that are only limited by the parts of the parent vehicle that they can't travers or that block LOS.
4. LAUNCH TUBES. - Missile/Mine launch system comprised of 1 or more indvidual launch tubes. These systems are most often built into the hull for enhanced protection from enemy fire. Unlike other weapons a launch tube's field of fire is heavily dependent on the type of missile it is intended to fire. AA missiles can make rapid course changes and therefore benefit from a larger platforms better sensor covrage gaining 360 degree arcs of fire. Torpedos and Cap missiles are far less menuverable and normally track only in the arc the launch tube faces. Mines should only be droped out of stern facing tube to prevent the ship from overrunning them and causing an accidental detonation. Launch tubes can be combined with sponsons or turrets to improve the firing arcs of larger missile systems, but this exposes these launchers to more incoming fire and increases the chances of the weapons being knocked out during battle while significantly increasing the cost of the weapon mount.

Now we still need to sort out the firing arcs. Now I agree with the decision to limit th gunfire to 2D. I spent about 2 years back in the 90's trying to make Star Fleet Battles a 3D game and gave up because I concluded that a CGI enviroment was th only place you could do somthing like that and keep the game playable. That said you are still going to need more then 5 arc definitions. The arc of a weapon really shouldn't effect the cost. This is because the mount type determines the mobility of the gun to chase tragets; however it is the physical location of the weapon the determins how much of the sky it can actually see. Fireing arc definitions are tied heavily to the movement system. This is because movement determins where the target ends up in relation to the gun. So How exactly are the ships going to move? Is it a hex based system like most, or somthing more free form? At any rate each gun mount will have to have the arc assigned individualy based on mount loaction. Here are some examples.

ARC COVERAGE
1. F - Front the 60 degree arc defined by the hex in front of the ship.
2. A - Aft the 60 degree arc defined by the hex behind the ship
3. LF - Left Front the 60 degree arc to the front and left of the ship.
4. RF - Right Front the 60 degree arc to the front and right of the ship.
5. LA - Left Aft the 60 degree arc to the back and left of the ship.
6. RA - Right Aft the 60 degree arc to the back and right of the ship.
7. HEM - Hemisphereical 180 degree arc. thes can be centered on 1 of the 6 60 degree (also called primary) arcs or the left or right in which case the edge is along the ships centerline.
8. OTS - Over the Shoulder 300 degree arc centered on 1 of the primary arcs and can fire into all other arcs except the 1 directly opposite the centered arc.
9. C - Center very narrow arc only covering the hex row down the center of 1 of the primary arcs.
10. S - Side 120 degree arc centered on the ships left of right side.
11. 360 - 360 degree arc.
Examples in use.
FHEM - Front hemisphere
LAOTS - Left aft over the shoulder
AC - Aft centerline
RS - Right side

Okay...so here's how I see your ship's weapons with this system:

Weapons Station x 63
  • Armored Dual Gun Sponson x 32 ((10 Port, 10 Starboard; Mass Driver), (6 Fore, 6 Aft; Neutron Gun))
  • Hex Missile Turret, Double Bank x 2 (12 ImRec, 12 IFF each, standard) Mag size is a guess, and I still haven't been able to figure out just what a "CASE" system is supposed to be.
  • Armored Dual Gun Limited Turret x 16 ((8 Fore/Port/Aft; Antimatter Gun), (8 Fore/Starboard/Aft; Antimatter Gun))
  • Armored Triple Gun Turret x 9 (<final heavy gun selection>)
Again, let me know if I've got a mistake here. Does this whole thing sound like something that'd work better than what I have now?

Ok so there are a few changes

Weapons Station x 63

1. Armored Dual Gun Turrets x 32 [(10 LHEM, 10 RHEM; Mass Drivers), ( 6 FHEM, 6 AHEM; Neutron Guns)]
2. Hex AA Missile Launchers, Double Bay CASE x 2 (360; 100 ImRec, 100 IFF each, standard) CASE stands for Cellular Amunition Storage Equipment. It is for containing ammo explosions in the magazine. It blows all the explosive force out into space. The army uses it on tanks and the navy on AEGIS ships. The magazine is destroyed but the ship and the weapon system survive.
3. Armored Dual Gun Turret x 16 [(8 LHEM; AMG), (8 RHEM; AMG)]
4. Armored Triple Gun Turret x 9 [( 5 FOTS, TBD), (2 LHEM+A, TBD), (2 RHEM+A, TBD)]

I think we getting closer What do you think of the changes?
 
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Haven't been meaning to ignore you today; spent the day filling in the prices of Guns. Got about twenty to go at this point but I still haven't settled upon a system I really like. I'll get back to working on the ship as soon as I can.
 
Argh......okay, guys. It's awful nice that somebody put up a table of torpedoes up at WCPedia, but I'm having trouble finding where each torp actually comes from in the continuity. I know the Lance Torpedo is the one described in Star*Soldier and the Mark IV is the one that debuts in WC2...what about the rest?
 
Same here...four different types of torpedoes just in Prophecy. I've simply never seen any official names applied to any of the torpedoes; you look in the manuals and guidebooks, and all the information on them simply calls them "torpedo".

I suppose I could try inferring which one is which based on the stats listed at WCPedia.

Getting close on the weapons. Lost the whole day to work yesterday because my son is sick at the moment; I'm a little more hopeful for today.
 
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