what if they made a Wing Commander MMORPG?

[Eder]

Yeah, back to the thread's subject... I think they should make a Massively Multiplayer Online Game so I can play with four or five of my friends. And they shouldn't charge me any money for it, since we all know that anyone can host a Massively Multiplayer Online Game server if it only has half a dozen people connected to it.

 

[dextorboot]

People really need to learn to read.

 

[Eder]

Yeah... and I even put the key word in italics for you. You wanna try that again?

 

[cff]

For a subscription based game you have hundreds of servers or more under the control of the developer that must be faithfully manned around the clock. You also have a full team of developers moderating the game and developing new content. It's like the game never stops being made.

Don't overestimate the pure server power (hardware cost) you need. We wouldn't see custom servers for UO if that would be the case.
As for developers and moderating. Show me an example. All MMORPGs that I played/watched had zero to extremely minimal moderation/story telling by moderators. All they did was fixing bugs and developing new stuff. New stuff that was SOLD as an expansion. Sometimes minor stuff with a patch. But all in all not more then lets say a Diablo 2 does/did. The only reason I'd pay would be for active Gamemasters. Something I'v yet to see!

And that's perfectly acceptible. With a non-subscription based game the developer will only get perhaps $10-20 of actual revenue max after everyone takes their piece of the pie.

Probably much less. A musican gets about 10 cents per CD sold...

 

[Frosty]

Well, since none of my arguments are swaying you at all, let's just agree to disagree. This conversation is boring me. Sorry.

Don't be one of those people.

Yeah... and I even put the key word in italics for you. You wanna try that again?

Hehe, owned.

Don't overestimate the pure server power (hardware cost) you need. We wouldn't see custom servers for UO if that would be the case.

I don't think anyone is doubting the possibility of hosting private free servers, just the possibility of them in any way equaling the experience provided by the subscription equipment. My roommate in college had one of those little UO servers. He got excited when 20+ people played. At the other end of that, I played Asheron's Call for years and got surprised when fewer than 3000 people were on at once.

Probably much less. A musican gets about 10 cents per CD sold...

I think the relationship between developer company and publisher is a little different from that between musician and record label. But in any case, the fact remains that they wouldn't end up getting all that much per game sold.

People have to remember that even beyond servers, companies have to pay for continued updates (not always are they sold in boxes) and software maintainance. It's a large investment to produce and operate an MMOG, no matter how you stack the cards.

 

[Haesslich]

Don't overestimate the pure server power (hardware cost) you need. We wouldn't see custom servers for UO if that would be the case.
As for developers and moderating. Show me an example. All MMORPGs that I played/watched had zero to extremely minimal moderation/story telling by moderators. All they did was fixing bugs and developing new stuff. New stuff that was SOLD as an expansion. Sometimes minor stuff with a patch. But all in all not more then lets say a Diablo 2 does/did. The only reason I'd pay would be for active Gamemasters. Something I'v yet to see!

Asheron's Call 1 has/had an ongoing story in which the world would change monthly, and events would often be run by staff... the whole Bael'zharon episode comes to mind, a multi-month plot which involved thousands of players across all the servers.

You had the moderators in question actually running into the game as the title character or his nemesis, doing things like killing people, talking to them to encourage them to do something, and so on. I could look for a site with pictures of when Bael'zharon went into Cragstone again, if someone wanted them.

Though events like this have been rare these days, especially since they're putting more effort into AC 2.

 

[dextorboot]

I said learn to read because what he didn't make any reference to at all was what I said after that part. "It would be entirely cool to play such a game with 10 or 10,000 people." Bascially, it's the same thing I said in a previous post. Irritating when a person tries to nail you on something in a sentence when the next sentence addresses the issue.

One of what people? The kind that understand that people have their own opinions and it's ok if they're not the same as yours?

 

[Frosty]

Asheron's Call 1 has/had an ongoing story in which the world would change monthly, and events would often be run by staff... the whole Bael'zharon episode comes to mind, a multi-month plot which involved thousands of players across all the servers.

The Bael'Zharon arc was the only one that actually involved direct GM participation, and even then, it was pretty weak. I met neither BZ nor Asheron once during that entire plot-arc, and I played a whole hell of a lot.

My brother saw BZ once though, in one of the Sho towns, and booked it the hell away from there.

You had the moderators in question actually running into the game as the title character or his nemesis, doing things like killing people, talking to them to encourage them to do something, and so on. I could look for a site with pictures of when Bael'zharon went into Cragstone again, if someone wanted them.

They never really spent much time playing, though. I was disappointed by how few and far between the BZ massacres wound up being.

Though events like this have been rare these days, especially since they're putting more effort into AC 2.

Actually, I think it's because they don't give a damn. The maintainance team for AC doesn't have anything to do with the AC2 team, as far as I know.

Plus, anyone who's played AC2 knows they didn't really put all that much effort into it.

If there were ever to be a WC MMOG, I would require for there to be multiple GMs playing dedicated, plot-relevant characters on a fairly constant basis, interacting with players and driving the plot before I signed up. I would also require the underlying game mechanics to be constructed such that it was possible for these GMs to lead large numbers of players into situations (battles) that would actually decide the course of events, and provide some tangible benefits/consequences that people cared about.

At least the first part is easier than breathing - it shouldn't be too hard to hire some goons on to play games from 9-5 as GMs, even at minimum wage. Although I figure responsible and reliable people would be culled from the dev team for that job, and paid lots more than minimum.

Irritating when a person tries to nail you on something in a sentence when the next sentence addresses the issue.

He wasn't trying to nail you, pull that burr out of your ass.

One of what people? The kind that understand that people have their own opinions and it's ok if they're not the same as yours?

No, the kind of little newbie bitch that throws a fit when everyone in the discussion doesn't suddenly agree with him 100% and cries, "This discussion is boring/annoying/stupid/pointless." Get over it.

 

[Eder]

Dextorboot, I didn't take the second part of your sentence in consideration for the simple reason that it made no sense at all, considering what you had just written in your previous sentence. Games that are massive (in the way the starter of this thread meant) don't have free multiplayer, and aren't meant for ten players. Games that have free multiplayer aren't massive (in the way the starter of this thread meant) and aren't meant for ten thousand players.

And yes, I know you meant you'd like to see a free massive (as in, "can be played with up to 10000 players") WC game. My pretending not to realize this via heavy use of sarcasm was intended to point out how highly unlikely to ever exist such a thing is. The arguments which led me to that conclusion have been presented in this thread already - so why don't you learn to read?

Criticizing me for making fun of your stupid idea after you've repeatedly failed to see the stupidity in it isn't the best way of defending your point of view.

 

[Happy]

MMORPG will be the death of the internet.
after watching jay and silent bob strike back, and learn of the true use of the internet, i now know that man-kind is doomed.
(sarcasm)
i think a mod of freelancer online would kick ass, good thing one is already in the works

 

[dextorboot]

THAT wasn't trying to nail me? Are you blind? And there's no reason to be rude. I've been nothing but nice to people here. And when I have said something rude I've apoligized. And I'M the one with a burr in my ass?

I wasn't throwing a fit. I simply stated that we weren't going to agree and that's ok. I even believe I said that really nicely. Then I even said I was sorry for not being interested in that part of the conversation.

I don't care if you disagree with me. So what? I wasn't crying about anything. I thought our discussion was going well. We weren't insulting each other but rather going after the argument. I even said I respected his stance on it.

Why do you say I'm a newb? A newb at what exactly? Being a member this? If that's it, it's pretty sad. Just because I only recently signed up for the forums here doesn't mean I haven't been active for years elsewhere. I just recently found this site last year. I've always been a fan of WC (first game I ever bought for a PC). I was sitting around wondering if there was a way to get privateer to run on 98 or 2000 so I could play it again, then I used a search engine and this site was one that popped up.

 

[dextorboot]

Eder, the first part of your post I agree with. And thank you for being clear on concise about you're saying.

The second part, is obviously my fault for using poor wording and not saying exactly what I meant. I thought it was obvious, clearly I am wrong. I would like to see an new online WC game, be it massive or not. If were not, then I would like it to play as though it was one, meaning a persistant world somewhat like Freelancer in that your character is always your character and not some generic character as in HL. My bad, I expected people to understand that without me having to say it with so many words. And I was really just trying to get back to the topic rather than argue the points of servers, subscriptions, and other such stuff.

The last part, I'm going to have to object to. I never called anything anyone said stupid or said their idea was stupid. (Yes I know you're not saying I did.) Now perhaps you don't thing my idea is stupid because you see what I meant. Mainly, I criticized you because rather simply point out the things you said with your sarcasm, you started just making fun of people. Also, I don't like having to pay a subscription for a game I already bought. Simple fact. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying I don't like to do it and I wouldn't want to do it even for a WC game. I still don't think it's impossible to have a MMOG without subscription. That being said, I know for some games it's not possible to do some of them without it.

And sorry for the double post.

 

[Frosty]

THAT wasn't trying to nail me? Are you blind?

You don't know us, don't presume to know our motives.

Why do you say I'm a newb? A newb at what exactly? Being a member this? If that's it, it's pretty sad. Just because I only recently signed up for the forums here doesn't mean I haven't been active for years elsewhere.

How much time you've spent doing whatever you did outside this forum really carries no weight toward making me respect you more. You're a newb here, and that's the context of our discussion.

And sorry for the double post.

Edit buttons > sorrow.

Stop doing this argumentative thing, it just winds up distracting everything from the point. If you want to yell at me, do it in #WingNut, it's boring in there right now.

 

[Eder]

The second part, is obviously my fault for using poor wording and not saying exactly what I meant. I thought it was obvious, clearly I am wrong. I would like to see an new online WC game, be it massive or not. If were not, then I would like it to play as though it was one, meaning a persistant world somewhat like Freelancer in that your character is always your character and not some generic character as in HL.

That does clear up some things. Since you talked about "getting back on topic", and "MMO" games, I assumed you were talking strictly about the Ultima-Online type of game... since at least to my knowledge that's the only one which gets to tag the word "Massively" along with it, and I'm pretty sure that is what the original poster meant.

Now perhaps you don't thing my idea is stupid because you see what I meant.

Indeed, I don't think the idea of a Freelancer-esque multiplayer WC game - meaning, something with a persistent world, but unable to support ten thousand players - is stupid. Again, I assumed you were talking about a different type of multiplayer support.

I still don't think it's impossible to have a MMOG without subscription. That being said, I know for some games it's not possible to do some of them without it.

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I still think a free WC MMOG is a highly unlikely thing, and I see no reasonable argument to disprove that.

 

[Frosty]

Okay, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I still think a free WC MMOG is a highly unlikely thing to ever exist.

You're absolutely right. Any game which forces the publisher to content with repeated investment (any MMOG at all, ever) is simply not possible to sustain without repeated investment on the part of the consumer.

When you remove the publisher (and their vast wealth) from the equation, it becomes impossible to support that type of game the same way.

Anyway, 10-20 dollar fees per month are pocket change. Consider that if I were to work an absolute-minimum wage job, I would only need to work two hours a month to pay to play Asheron's Call, and I'd still have a dollar left over, so that I could avoid work altogether for every 11th month.

I can't see how this would drive away customers.

 

[Eder]

I agree, the rates aren't the type of thing that would cause most players a problem.... I think the experience of MMOGs is spoiled much more by the players than by the developers charging me money to play.

My biggest concern if they ever announce a WC MMOG will be the number of idiots that will go around flying Kilrathi fighters and flooding me with "I 0WNZ J00!" messages... not the monthly fee. In fact, I'd pay extra if they kept that type of idiot out of the game.

 

[dextorboot]

The reason there were 2 posts is because while I was writing my posts there was another post addressing me, so I didn't see it until after I posted.

You say don't presume to know your motives. He basically admitted that he was attacking what I was saying, so there.

You believed that's what he meant, I didn't. To perspectives on the same thing. You are probably right.

I know it's distracting, that's why I tried to get off this thing earlier but it didn't seem to work, and still doesn't seem to work. Tried throwing you guys a line in one of my last posts. I don't want to yell at you. Why would I want to do that? Don't know what gave you that idea. You started talking to me on this thread, not the other way around. If you would actually like to discuss/argue WC and you're truely bored over there, than I would go for that. Don't know why you want to treat me like a newb, and attribute whatever you think that means to me, when I've done nothing to warrant that. But whatever.

Ok, I can agree to disagree on that.

Most people who work minimum wage jobs aren't concerned with spending all their money on online games. Taking care of their needs tends to come first. What is chump change to you is anything but someone else.

And yeah, but there are people who ruin games for everyone everywhere.

 

[Frosty]

My biggest concern if they ever announce a WC MMOG will be the number of idiots that will go around flying Kilrathi fighters and flooding me with "I 0WNZ J00!" messages...

Yeah, clients need to be subject to more laws than they are, and more forcefully. Too many people get away with too much.

Also, dex, stop it now. You don't have to reply to me here, you can come to #WingNut. Just check the main page for how.

 

[TurboTim07]

Yeah, back to the thread's subject... I think they should make a Massively Multiplayer Online Game so I can play with four or five of my friends.

Just outta curiousity what do you think MMORPG means? Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game(or Massive Multiplayer Online Game for MMOG)
but anyways, i guess i would be happy with just a standard Wing Commander game but i think they should let you pick factions and have a separate mission tree for each faction and a much much longer game. they also could try releasing privateer online(without ads if they want to cut costs) and see how it works. if it don't go well they could just leave it at that but if it seems to catch on well then they could add sides, more ships, and somewhat of a storyline(a very flexible story line that isn't scripted. maybe somethin more like newer technology being added and new sectors available as well as a quick summary of what's currently going on)

 

[Eder]

Just outta curiousity what do you think MMORPG means? Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game(or Massive Multiplayer Online Game for MMOG)

Yeah, I know... I was just being sarcastic about someone else's comments. Not that you need to get used to sarcasm around here or anything.