What happened to Morningstar?

[CMDR_Scotty]

Also, I did not know about the RPG, I will look it up

I found it here a while ago, too - have it downloaded and - oh my - its an impressive work.
Capi really took nearly every possible aspect into it.

What I'd criticize is the repeating of rule fragments of a segment next to every sub-chapter making it an excessive file over 1.1 k pages.

Still struggle to understand the combat situations as there are limited examples mentioned - that combined with RL leaves it in the shelf, regrettably.


Back to Topic:
I agree with the former statements that all available crafts would be used to defend Sol against the attack launched by the Kilrathi.
Plus, after the incident the construction files may or may not have been reviewed and found obsolete due to its flaws, price - or - newer technologies developed.

 

[kingmakeress]

I agree with the former statements that all available crafts would be used to defend Sol against the attack launched by the Kilrathi.
Plus, after the incident the construction files may or may not have been reviewed and found obsolete due to its flaws, price - or - newer technologies developed.

That would probably explain the suffixes in the WC3 fighters --Hellcat V or Thunderbolt VII. Probably they are iterations of older (but possibly effective and tested) designs updated with new technologies and adapted to meet both latest Kilrathi designs and changes to the Confederation doctrine.

 

[capi3101]

What I'd criticize is the repeating of rule fragments of a segment next to every sub-chapter making it an excessive file over 1.1 k pages.

Still struggle to understand the combat situations as there are limited examples mentioned - that combined with RL leaves it in the shelf, regrettably.

Yeah, it's really better as a source guide than as a game. Using Aces and Eights for inspiration on how to structure was, in hindsight, not the best of ideas, nor was setting it up to be played essentially as a miniatures game with options to cut out stuff you didn't want to use...

I did a couple of combat trial runs; Blair didn't survive any of them, as I recall.

"repeating of rule fragments of a segment next to every sub-chapter". Not sure I grok; do you have an example?

On topic: That roughly 300 million credit figure for the Morningstar is an estimate based on the RPG rules and shouldn't be considered canonical by any stretch of the imagination. I determined one Confederation Credit had a value of 4.65 USD in 2013 based on the global price of beer at the time when compared to the average price of Liquor in Privateer, again strictly for the RPG.

 

[kingmakeress]

I determined one Confederation Credit had a value of 4.65 USD in 2013 based on the global price of beer at the time when compared to the average price of Liquor in Privateer, again strictly for the RPG.

Nice thinking! But do we know know much liquor is there in a Privateer crate?

 

[capi3101]

I think I just did price per unit; it's been a minute...
Though I probably still have those notes somewhere.

 

[kingmakeress]

I think I just did price per unit;

So humanity eventually found a way to drastically curb inflation between the 21st and the 27th century, I like this message

 

[capi3101]

Might've been based on the single malt scotch? This is all I could find...

Never mind the credit to MU conversion; that was from an earlier RPG I wrote.

Incidentally, the conversion of 1 CP to a dollar, 1 SP to ten dollars, 1 GP to a hundred dollars for D&D and its ilk is accurate, considering the price of a gallon of ale compared to the global average price. Just quick and dirty if you ever need a conversion. I think Knave uses that, though I'd have to go back and look to be sure.

And that's off topic for the Morningstar, of course...

Really, I just think they were using it as an experimental testbed, something that they could use to try out new technologies, but not one that Confed ultimately decided to mass produce (probably short on funds/resources after the Battle of Earth, were I to guess).

 

[kingmakeress]

Very interesting table!

It is on topic about the Morningstar, as costs, both production and maintenance, would have been a decisive factor to the authorization of its mass production.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I agree with the former statements that all available crafts would be used to defend Sol against the attack launched by the Kilrathi.
Plus, after the incident the construction files may or may not have been reviewed and found obsolete due to its flaws, price - or - newer technologies developed.

Think about it this way: I magically beam you through time to an American aircraft carrier in 1943. You see Hellcats, Dauntlesses and Avengers. Does this mean that there are no Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Spitfires, etc. anywhere? That they were all retired because you know from history that there was a major battle a month earlier? Of course not!

That would probably explain the suffixes in the WC3 fighters --Hellcat V or Thunderbolt VII. Probably they are iterations of older (but possibly effective and tested) designs updated with new technologies and adapted to meet both latest Kilrathi designs and changes to the Confederation doctrine.

The Roman numerals designate a new (and unrelated) spacecraft design; think the P-47 Thunderbolt versus the A-10 Thunderbolt II. The Thunderbolt VI and the Hellcat IV would most likely be from some previous era.

It is on topic about the Morningstar, as costs, both production and maintenance, would have been a decisive factor to the authorization of its mass production.

Those are usually things that happen at the start of the process. In Special Operations 2, we're seeing the end of a years-long process that began with the Navy identifying the need for a heavy strike fighter. It would be odd to commission, fund, design, prototype, production prototype and then combat test a ship you've decided you need for your ongoing war only to decide that /now/ it's too expensive.

And we see the Morningstar after Special Operations 2! They're in Academy (the game) which is set the year after SO2 and Confed is now training pilots on them in the sim. And the manual says they're currently Confed's premiere capital ship destroyer. And they show up years later, too, as one of the surplus ship types in an ad in Star*Soldier. There were definitely more Morningstars!

(And you also have to ask: why would we need there not to be Morningstars after SO2--what piece of information suggests that in the first place?)

 

[kingmakeress]

The Roman numerals designate a new (and unrelated) spacecraft design; think the P-47 Thunderbolt versus the A-10 Thunderbolt II. The Thunderbolt VI and the Hellcat IV would most likely be from some previous era.

Oh, I got this the other way around.

(And you also have to ask: why would we need there not to be Morningstars after SO2--what piece of information suggests that in the first place?)

A few thoughts come to mind:

• The Longbow proved more efficient despite being slower. Still it is a bomber doubling as a heavy fighter, whereas the Morningstar is a heavy fighter, so there is room for both. After all, there is no need to be only one craft able to carry multiple torpedoes.
• Data about the Morningstar were leaked (similarly to the Crossbow), so for security reasons another craft should be used.
• The Morningstar jump drive continued to be problematic, perhaps as a result of random interference from another subsystem?
• Highly unlikely: The Confederation thinks it will face an enemy with a different doctrine/fleet not based on capital ships? Obviously the Kilrathi and the Nephilim are not the case here, but an enemy operating on swarm tactics like Star Trek Beyond. Yet in this case the Mace would work wonders 🔥🔥 So the Confederation needs to have fighters capable of taking out capital ships.

 

[Bob McDob]

Is it true that the Morningstar was originally developed for Strike Commander? It sounds like an urban legend but I haven't been able to find anything about it

I did find this though which seems worth posting again:

 

[kingmakeress]

Is it true that the Morningstar was originally developed for Strike Commander?

Although I don't know, it certainly has the aesthetic of an atmospheric fighter.

Also coming on April 1st? 😉😛

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Is it true that the Morningstar was originally developed for Strike Commander? It sounds like an urban legend but I haven't been able to find anything about it

That sounds like an urban legend. Maybe the kernal of truth to it is just that Origin established their 3D group for Wing Commander II and those same artists went on to do Strike Commander and then on to do Special Operations 2 with that experience... or maybe somebody was just thinking 'oh it looks like an jet'.

A few thoughts come to mind:

These are interesting to think about but what I mean to ask is--what is telling us there are no Morningstars in the first place? We hear about them in Academy and Arena so... why would we need to explain that those are wrong in the first place?

The Longbow proved more efficient despite being slower. Still it is a bomber doubling as a heavy fighter, whereas the Morningstar is a heavy fighter, so there is room for both. After all, there is no need to be only one craft able to carry multiple torpedoes.

The Longbow was at least thirteen years old when the Morningstar entered service, so Confed probably knew what it waas capable of at that point!

 

[kingmakeress]

The Longbow was at least thirteen years old when the Morningstar entered service, so Confed probably knew what it waas capable of at that point!

I thought the Longbow was developed after the Morningstar --probably I was thinking in terms of the games sequence rather than in terms of the much broader lore.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

We see it way back in Wing Commander Academy!

But even before that we already knew it was a little bit older: it's the F/A-76 Longbow (compared to the F-99 for the Morningstar.)

 

[kingmakeress]

But even before that we already knew it was a little bit older: it's the F/A-76 Longbow (compared to the F-99 for the Morningstar.)

Although I am certain the Confederation tries to keep fighter designations serial or at the vert least ordered with some small gaps, over a forty year war split up to different phases I would not be surprised if that was not entirely true. There are some real world examples of that. But in this case I get that Longbow coexisted with the Morningstar.

Speaking about the Morningstar, do we know how it got its name? Nearly every other Confederation fighter in the pre-Nephilim era is named after a hand-held weapon (eg Scimitar, Rapier, Stiletto, Longbow), so Morningstar stands out.

Moreover, I think it is safe to assume that some technologies developed for the Morningstar like the Mace were ported to other fighters.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Although I am certain the Confederation tries to keep fighter designations serial or at the vert least ordered with some small gaps, over a forty year war split up to different phases I would not be surprised if that was not entirely true. There are some real world examples of that. But in this case I get that Longbow coexisted with the Morningstar.

That is true, but I can only think of cases where the numbers jumped ahead (F-35) and not ones where it intentionally went backwards. Look how the fighters that we know in the lore are new all line up the same way designs in the 1960s did culminating in a 'century series':

F-95 Morningstar
F-97 Wraith
F-98 Phantom
F-103 Excalibur
F-104 Bearcat
F/A-105 Tigershark
F-106 Piranha
F-107 Lance
F-108 Panther
F-109 Vampire
F-110 Wasp

Speaking about the Morningstar, do we know how it got its name? Nearly every other Confederation fighter in the pre-Nephilim era is named after a hand-held weapon (eg Scimitar, Rapier, Stiletto, Longbow), so Morningstar stands out.

It's part of the theme!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_(weapon)

Moreover, I think it is safe to assume that some technologies developed for the Morningstar like the Mace were ported to other fighters.

No question! Confed has Maces in Wing Commander IV and you get to use them if you choose Speradon and then the 'capture a carrier' mission.

 

[kingmakeress]

and you get to use them if you choose Speradon and then the 'capture a carrier' mission

Where the game crashes every time I try to fly into the carrier 😕😕

The Bearcat was a cool fighter, but I usually pick the Circe series to keep Panther's morale high.