WC Wingman KIA bug/feature??

Corvus Corax

Spaceman
Currently playing WC SM2: I'm aware of the issue of wingmen going KIA while not serving with you, but never really thought much about it till now. I think I read somewhere that these KIA's have to happen to open a couple of slots for "Jazz" and "Doomsday."

I'm at Corsair 2-2 and show "Iceman" and "Angel" as KIA's on the killboard. Well, I used the savegame editor to check this out.....and I find that "Angel" is still listed as active, even though she's KIA on the killboard and "Hunter" is listed as the other KIA....even though he's alive on the killboard and is my wingman in the current mission.

Is this a problem with Raley's editor or is something else going on here? Thanks for any info.
 
The KIAs are more some kind of overrun error. You can use the editor to fix this as pilots incorrectly die off.

I haven't heard of a secondary bug where the editor doesn't match the game though. Do you have a savegame a couple missions back you could experiment with? Maybe kill the pilots with the program, restart the game, save, and then go back and revive them?
 
I've got savegame.wld and crusade.wld backed up every which way, so I can easily experiment with them.

First, I assume that all save info is in the above-cited files (the former for WC and SM, the latter for SM2) and that there are no other files carrying save data. If this isn't the case, then I've simply got egg on my face. :) Second, I edit the save files thus: (1) copy crusade.wld into a separate directory where I store the editor, (2) edit the file, (3) copy it back into gamedat, (4) fire up game to test changes. My original crusade.wld is, of course, backed-up in yet another directory. Finally, my savegame names show the next mission I'm going to play, not the one I just finished, i.e., Corsair 3-1 was the save I made after I finished Corsair 2-2.

"Bossman" Chen was listed on the Killboard as KIA after I completed Firekka 1-2 (he was not my wingman on that mission). His death was mentioned in-game by NPC's after I completed Firekka 2-2. His name has disappeared from crusade.wld. He's not shown as KIA; he's simply no longer on the wingman list. His name has also been removed from the Killboard in-game.

My most recent save, Corsair 3-1, shows "Angel" and "Iceman" as KIA's on the Killboard. Neither of these NPC's was my wingman when they became KIA's. "Iceman" shows up on the Killboard as KIA after I completed Firekka 3-2.....he's not sitting in the bar, yet he pops up and introduces me to the newly-arrived "Jazz." "Angel" shows up as KIA on the Killboard, after I complete Firekka 4-2 and she's seen no more in the bar....even though the NPC's have yet to say anything about her death.

Crusade.wld, accessed by WCSave, tells a somewhat different story: "Spirit" shows up as a KIA in save Corsair 1-1 (made after I completed Firekka 3-2) and "Hunter shows up as KIA in the next save, Corsair 1-2. However, both are still active in game (just finished two missions with Hunter...alive at the end of both) and not listed as KIA on the Killboard, which shows only "Angel" and "Iceman" as KIA's.

OK, so I edited save Corsair 2-2, the save immediately before my current save, Corsair 3-1. Both saves show "Spirit" and "Hunter" as KIA, so I made them active in Corsair 2-2 only, copied the modified crusade.wld into GAMEDAT and loaded save Corsair 2-2. The Killboard now showed no KIA's. Making "Spirit" and "Hunter" active in the save file, made "Angel" and "Casey" active in the game! I next loaded my most recent save, Corsair 3-1, and "Hunter' and "Spirit" were now shown as KIA's instead of "Angel" and "Iceman." "Spirit" was no longer sitting in the bar as she is in Corsair 3-1 in the unmodified crusade.wld. I used the editor to check crusade.wld and, yes, "Hunter" and "Spirit" are shown as KIA....just as they were before. So it looks like even if I didn't edit Corsair 3-1, the changes I made to Corsair 2-2 caused changes in 3-1.

I did all this three times and got the same results each time. So, if you're still with me, this is what I've got. Looks like there's some confusion over wingman names between the data in the save and what's shown in the game.

I'm tempted to modify the save so that "Angel" is still active (since she's supposed to be assigned to the "Concordia" soon) and "Hunter" is still active because he was at the debriefing when I finished Corsair 2-2, even though the save has him dead since Corsair 1-2. OTOH, maybe I'll just "play it as it lays." Once you start editing files, you're kind of playing with the game, not playing the game. ;)

So I guess what you've got to tell me is that there's another file(s) in GAMEDAT which supplies wingman data.....then I can really feel like an idiot. :o

Finally, I've got a feeling I've just rehashed some old news for about the nth time. I mean how many times has this topic probably been beaten to death over the last 15 years. :)
 
I only kept laughing as dead "Knight"'s face and talkies appeared in the debriefing on my old '286 back in the day, but i alone was standing on the debriefing platform, him having been killed the mission before.

Bug's are always fun, I use them still to win games when i find them, after failing XXX times...
 
I don't think there's any other files besides the ones you're working with that have pilot data like that. It sounds like you've already tested it in different configurations, except maybe just changing one if I've followed you. Can you try to go in and just adjust one pilot's status (starting from the unedited file). That's how I've always done it, and that's seemed to work. Other than that, you seemed to have already tested it quite a bit and may have just found some bugs in the bug-fixer. And I don't have a problem with editing the status of the pilots who weren't supposed to die like that.
 
I don't think there's any other files besides the ones you're working with that have pilot data like that. It sounds like you've already tested it in different configurations, except maybe just changing one if I've followed you. Can you try to go in and just adjust one pilot's status (starting from the unedited file). That's how I've always done it, and that's seemed to work. Other than that, you seemed to have already tested it quite a bit and may have just found some bugs in the bug-fixer. And I don't have a problem with editing the status of the pilots who weren't supposed to die like that.

In fact, despite all my fine words, I did change my latest save (at that time Corsair 3-1) to reactivate "Angel" and "Iceman." I decided to do it because "Angel" clearly survives to be in WC2 and the WC3 intro. I wanted to get the storyline on her promotion to major and reassignment. Same thing for "Iceman," I wanted the storyline on his daughter. "Maniac" was my wingman on Charon 1 and was killed. I left him dead because he, in fact, did get killed while my wingman. For story purposes, I assume the TC couldn't retrieve his body, launched an empty coffin, and he was found by another Confed ship. ;)

I did experiment with reactivating single pilots and that seems to work well via the editor. If the pilot is shown as KIA in both the game and the save then everything works fine. The bug seemed to be the instance where "Angel" and "Casey" were shown as KIA in the game, while "Spirit" and "Hunter" were shown as KIA in the corresponding save.

The two clearly legitimate pilot removals appear to be "Bossman," KIA, and "Paladin," retired. I assume this was to open two slots for "Jazz" and "Doomsday." I don't remember anymore if Origin specified that the KIA wingmen was a bug, but it seems logical to me that pilots would be killed on a random basis, while serving in other flights. Of course, this affects you, if you're supposed to have a KIA wingman on a future series (usually a good effect, since the guy won't be stealing my kills and costing me medals :) ). It's also clear Origin never intended wingman deaths to have any effect beyond each specific game, as all are reset "alive" for subsequent games. So even if you don't reactivate them, they'll be back.

This is all history now; I finished SM2 last night, transferred my char, and am now playing WC2. :)
 
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