Ultimate WC box, part 1: Grafix...

Preacher

Preacher

Swabbie
Banned
I Want It All.

I'm trying to build the "ultimate" WC system, by which I mean a PC that will run all the retail WC games known, while being the highest caliber system "otherwise" that I can manage (for playing other games--from time to time, of course). There are several questions that need be answered, but here's a couple:

WCP/SO need Glide for optimum graphics goodness. Currently, I piggyback a Voodoo2 card to an ATI Xpert 98. This enables me to run Glide for WCP/SO, and I can run the older (previous) WC games in DOS (or under Win 9x) on the ATI card. That said, I need the following questions answered:

1) Does DOS - and games based upon it - run:
a) just fine on "modern" (read: Radeon/GeForce) graphics cards as is, or
b) not at *all*, or
c) does one need specialized drivers to even get DOS to run under such modern cards?...

2) If the answer to the above is a) or c), would the (above) scenario also work if a GeForce card were piggybacked to the Voodoo 2 (that way I could play more "modern" games under the GeForce card), or what?

Any answers/replies/criticism/etc. would be welcome. Thx.
 
I have no experience with modern video cards, but I can't think of any reason why DOS games can't work with them. Unless they're ancient CGA games...
 
LOAF here.

Just got my 'ultimate' WC system working properly (all the cards in and such).

What you want is an AGP Voodoo 5 and a PCI RealMagic Hollywood Plus decoder card. That's all. This is because...

* The Voodoo 5 will run Prophecy better than a Voodoo 2. Its FSAA has a *noticable* effect on Prophecy's 3D stuff.

* The Voodoo 5 has a fixed glide -- meaning that Voodoo 1 only stuff (like the 3dfx Test) will run on it.

* The Hollywood Plus card is needed for WCIVDVD.

(It will run DOS stuff fine -- shouldn't be an issue with any modern card).
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
...The Voodoo 5 has a fixed glide -- meaning that Voodoo 1 only stuff (like the 3dfx Test) will run on it.
Click to expand...

Your blurb above has me confused. How can a monster like the v5 run "only" v1 stuff?... I musta misunderheard ya: It maketh no sense. Plz Xplain.

----------------
No question the V5 would kick the V2's butt, esp. cuz of the FSAA. But:

The reason I spec'd the V2 board in my box (in addition to the fact that it's my current 3D board), though, is that unlike it's successor Voodoo boards, it had a pass-thru so you could use another board for your (ahem) "other" graphix needs. Ya wanna do that with a V3-5, you need to get (AFAIK) a signal splitter and/or a VGA switchbox, and be prepared to deal with driver conflicts, etc.

BTW, good to hear that DOS stuff runs fine under "any" modern grafixcard. I was worried about that.
 
Your blurb above has me confused. How can a monster like the v5 run "only" v1 stuff?... I musta misunderheard ya: It maketh no sense. Plz Xplain.
Click to expand...

Read as 'Voodoo-1-only' -- as in stuff that *only* works with a Voodo 1. 3Dfx 'broke' Glide after 2.43, and didn't fix it until the Voodoo 5. So the stuff that was designed for the *original* Voodoo card had trouble with later cards (Voodoo 2, 3). The important stuff was patched (Prophecy has a 'Voodoo 2 patch' that lets it be used on later cards), but stuff like the 3Dfx test never was. Hence only the Voodoo 1 and 5 and *not* the Voodoo 2 and 3 will run the 3Dfx test.

The reason I spec'd the V2 board in my box (in addition to the fact that it's my current 3D board), though, is that unlike it's successor Voodoo boards, it had a pass-thru so you could use another board for your (ahem) "other" graphix needs. Ya wanna do that with a V3-5, you need to get (AFAIK) a signal splitter and/or a VGA switchbox, and be prepared to deal with driver conflicts, etc.
Click to expand...

Wow, I felt the exact opposite way about this: The Voodoo 1 and 2 are pass-through daughter boards, so the *require* another graphics card (and thus another slot). A Voodoo 4/5 is the *only* graphics card you need -- and it's AGP, so it takes up a slot that won't be used for anything else. (The DVD-decoder is a pass-through card like the V1/2).
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


Read as 'Voodoo-1-only' -- as in stuff that *only* works with a Voodo 1. 3Dfx 'broke' Glide after 2.43, and didn't fix it until the Voodoo 5. So the stuff that was designed for the *original* Voodoo card had trouble with later cards (Voodoo 2, 3). The important stuff was patched (Prophecy has a 'Voodoo 2 patch' that lets it be used on later cards), but stuff like the 3Dfx test never was. Hence only the Voodoo 1 and 5 and *not* the Voodoo 2 and 3 will run the 3Dfx test.
Click to expand...
No offense, but who CARES about the 3dfx "test"?... I don't think I have any games-even my older ones- that were written for Voodoo 1. Can you give examples of some prominent ones? Moreover, the way the response was worded, it kinda sounded as though the V5 ONLY ran V1 games, which'd be totally bogus. That's why I needed clarification...

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

Wow, I felt the exact opposite way about this: The Voodoo 1 and 2 are pass-through daughter boards, so the *require* another graphics card (and thus another slot). A Voodoo 4/5 is the *only* graphics card you need -- and it's AGP, so it takes up a slot that won't be used for anything else. (The DVD-decoder is a pass-through card like the V1/2).
Click to expand...
Well, the thought there was of maximum flexibility: That if you wanna run a GeForce card in your system ALSO, you could do that more efficiently with a V2, because of the pass thru.
In short, if you wanna do that w/ a V5, you'd hafta (1)Settle for a PCI version of it, if they even MAKE such an animal (DO they?), and (2) You'd have to be ready to deal w/ possible driver conflicts on a scale you WOULDN'T have to w/ a V2 as a pass thru.
Does this make any sense, or am I missin' somethin' here?...
 
I dunno how it happened, but the post below from "Unregistered" (if you ain't guessed it already) was from me...
 
Originally posted by Unregistered
No offense, but who CARES about the 3dfx "test"?
Click to expand...
You don't understand, LOAF is one of the biggest, if not the biggest WingNut, and his project to build a WC computer which will run every WC game in existence.

Originally posted by Unregistered
Moreover, the way the response was worded, it kinda sounded as though the V5 ONLY ran V1 games...
Click to expand...
No, he said that the Voodoo 5 can run Voodoo 1 exclusive programs. Made sense the first time.
 
No offense, but who CARES about the 3dfx "test"?... I don't think I have any games-even my older ones- that were written for Voodoo 1. Can you give examples of some prominent ones? Moreover, the way the response was worded, it kinda sounded as though the V5 ONLY ran V1 games, which'd be totally bogus. That's why I needed clarification...
Click to expand...

Well, Wing Commander Prophecy itself is a good example. It was written for Glide 2.43... so will not work on anything else without the 'Voodoo 2 patch'. The original Unreal was another game 'broken' by post-2.43 Glide's (it was, of course, also later patched).

As for who cares about the 3Dfx Test... well, maybe just me. It was an amazingly fun little demo of whose release I have very fond memories, and it's a Wing Commander game... so I had to develop my WC Machine to support it. It's like Prophecy's Kilrathi Gauntlet, with all these fun little differences.

Well, the thought there was of maximum flexibility: That if you wanna run a GeForce card in your system ALSO, you could do that more efficiently with a V2, because of the pass thru.
In short, if you wanna do that w/ a V5, you'd hafta (1)Settle for a PCI version of it, if they even MAKE such an animal (DO they?), and (2) You'd have to be ready to deal w/ possible driver conflicts on a scale you WOULDN'T have to w/ a V2 as a pass thru.
Does this make any sense, or am I missin' somethin' here?...
Click to expand...

Well, I completely understand how *that* works... but if you're building a Wing Commander specific computer, there's not a reason to *want* any other video card.
 
Originally posted by Preacher
I1) Does DOS - and games based upon it - run:
a) just fine on "modern" (read: Radeon/GeForce) graphics cards as is, or
b) not at *all*, or
c) does one need specialized drivers to even get DOS to run under such modern cards?...
Click to expand...

This question is harder to answer then you might think. WC games should run, except WC4 which might have problems.
As for other games most should run.
You will most likely run into problems with games needing VESA. There had been at least 3 standards 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 IIRC. Before that you had to actually know the chip of your card for SVGA (OAK/Tseng often works for modern cards). Many newer cards bail out under that conditions. I don't think a GEforce works fine here.
There is a program called UNIVBE later named DisplayDoctor IIRC that can fix the VESA bugs on some systems.

Originally posted by Preacher

2) If the answer to the above is a) or c), would the (above) scenario also work if a GeForce card were piggybacked to the Voodoo 2 (that way I could play more "modern" games under the GeForce card), or what?
Click to expand...

The voodoo should not change the behaviour in any way.
 
Originally posted by Preacher

The reason I spec'd the V2 board in my box (in addition to the fact that it's my current 3D board), though, is that unlike it's successor Voodoo boards, it had a pass-thru so you could use another board for your (ahem) "other" graphix needs. Ya wanna do that with a V3-5, you need to get (AFAIK) a signal splitter and/or a VGA switchbox, and be prepared to deal with driver conflicts, etc.
Click to expand...

Worse then that actually.
1st you need a AGP main card.
2nd you need a PCI Voodoo 5 board.
3rd you need a BIOS capable of picking the PCI/AGB initialisation order (only the primary one will work in DOS - in Windows only the primary one will do D3D, dunno about glide).
4th you need 2 Monitors or a switch box.
5th you need enough free interrupts to have 2 graphic cards.

That said I am our local crazy guy that has 3 graphic cards in his system - a GeForce 3 Ti200, a Matrox Mystique 220 + RainbowRunner addon and a Diamond Monster 3D Voodoo1...
Works flawlessly after some initial screaming (techs told me i'd never be able to get it to run, then I took over :P ). 2 Screens are extremely nice as well at times :)

Originally posted by Preacher
BTW, good to hear that DOS stuff runs fine under "any" modern grafixcard. I was worried about that.
Click to expand...
Some doesn't, at least in SVGA resolutions.
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
You don't understand, LOAF is one of the biggest, if not the biggest WingNut, and his project to build a WC computer which will run every WC game in existence.

No, he said that the Voodoo 5 can run Voodoo 1 exclusive programs. Made sense the first time.
Click to expand...

No, I know how "sensei-like" LOAF is, and I understand his goal, but I was confused by some wording, that's all. Just wanted to make sure I understood what he was sayin'. Between yer & his replies, I now "get" it.


Originally posted by cff
Some doesn't, at least in SVGA resolutions.
Click to expand...

Um, like WHICH ones?... I want names and addresses...
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


Well, Wing Commander Prophecy itself is a good example. It was written for Glide 2.43... so will not work on anything else without the 'Voodoo 2 patch'. The original Unreal was another game 'broken' by post-2.43 Glide's (it was, of course, also later patched).

Well, I completely understand how *that* works... but if you're building a Wing Commander specific computer, there's not a reason to *want* any other video card.
Click to expand...

1) Hmmm. that's odd: I'm able to run WCP just fine on my V2 and "I don't need no steenking patches"--Or are you sayin' that it won't work on any OTHER Voodoo board (than V2) sans the patch?...

2)The first line of my initial post said it best: "I want it all".

>> I'm ideally lookin' to build a box that can play all WC's AND a good chunk of the more recent games that I've accumulated as well. Actually, the only thing stopping me from doing that on my current 4-yr old system is:
a) Not enuff RAM
b) Could use more HDD space
c) No AGP slot on current mobo, for GeForce madness.

Sorry about the multi-posting, but if I put all the replies in a single post, it'd be way too long...
 
Originally posted by Preacher

Um, like WHICH ones?... I want names and addresses...
Click to expand...

LOL... You think I remember all that ancient stuff I fucked around with. ;)
Software that had problems for me (What I can remember from the top of my head)
* Alien Breed - Tower Assault. Solvable.
* Warlords 2 DLX. Solvable with Patch & Work.
* WC4 (unpatched DOS version). Patch.
* Millenium - Alterned Destinies. Unsolvable.
* Ducktales IIRC. Never bothered to solve.

Basically every game that has you select chipsets in order to work with SVGA can lead to problems (but probably less then 1% will). Never had a problem with VESA games I think besides Warlords 2 DLX.
But I really cannot remember every game, nor did I try them all on my current setting...
 
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