Top 5 Reasons why the TCH is not Canon

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
10. tHE War started on 2641.009 (p.10)
9. The Iason first contacted on 2638.229 (p.10)
8. The Kilrathi are the only alien race (p.11)
7. rEPLEETAH started in 2646.080 and ended in 2651.290 and Confed won (p. 14)
6. Tolwyn is at least 58 years old (p.7)
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
Yikes. Something's wrong with your caps key. And with your head too, perhaps ;)

--Eder
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
Terran Confederation Handbook.
Canon is, uh, how can I put it... something is 'canon' when it is considered official, or accepted as authentic and true... sorry I can't define it any better.

Think of it this way. Everything that's said or shown in WCP is canon, anything that is said in any WC fan fiction is not.

--Eder
 

Jetlag

Rear Admiral
LOOKIT ME, I'M A TROLL, LEMME DECLARE SUM TINGS NOT TO BE CANNON< HAHA FLAME AT ME< I DON"T CARE, I"M RITE U R NOT> HAHA I LAUF AT U. TRY TO ARGOO WIT ME ALL U WANT< TOO BAD. I WIN.
 

Frosty

a full fledged GF
Top 5 reasons why Bob is wrong...
  1. He's stupid.
  2. He's stupid.
  3. He's stupid.
  4. He's stupid.
  5. He's stupid.
    [/list=1]
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
First of all, before we jump into the meat and potatoes of this thing, let us address several fallacies relating to your post.

The CAPS LOCK and SHIFT keys: I certainly understand how you could get them confused -- they sure look similar! Since I'm not a professional and, as thus, am certainly in no place to explain to you the differences between these two keys. A GoogleSearch tells me you can find an online typing course at http://www.easytype.com.

Canon: Your use of this term is confusing -- it is my understanding that 'canon' refers to what a company will use in developing its next product. If Paramount requires Enterprise writers to have viewed certain Voyager episodes, then they are 'canon'. Since no Wing Commander team has been formed since the Handbook was printed, it is logical to assume that it's "place" has not been considered. The single Wing Commander product published since the TCH was written -- Pilgrim Stars -- relies *extensively* on the material it introduces. Further, your argument is essentially wrong for a second reason: proving that a continuity exists will not prevent it from being used a future source of information by the license holders.

Numbers: It is generally accepted that the "Top 5" of something will be listed using numerals between zero and six -- not six through ten.

10. tHE War started on 2641.009 (p.10)

Ah, an interesting question -- when is war 'started'? Let us first take the most modern and obvious example: when will we consider the 'war on terror' to have 'started'? September 11th? Earlier, less high-profile events (such as the attack on USS Cole?) When President Bush formally stated that we were at war? Perhaps at some point in the future when Congress officially declares a war?

Ah, you say, history will decide. Fine -- then when did World War II start? When Germany annexed Austria? When they took over Poland? December 7th, 1941? The day after, when America formally entered the war? Perhaps in 1932 when Japan began their expansion?

Now let us look at the Kilrathi war. Did it start in 2629 when the Kilrathi attacked the Iason? Did it start on 2634.186 when the Confederation formally declared war on specific factions within the Empire? Did it start on 2634.235 when the Kilrathi attacked McAuliffe? Did it start on 2639.007 when the Confederation formally declared war on the Empire itself, following the slaughter at Hellespont? Did it start on 2641.009, the point after which hostilities continued unabatedly?

They all happened -- but which to we consider the starting point to the war?

9. The Iason first contacted on 2638.229 (p.10)

In my mind the best explanation to date for this second Iason incident is that it is a recounting of the final destruction of the famed ship. This explanation is rooted in fact -- according to the Handbook, the Iason was commisioned in 2613. It then served as an explorer... and then overhauled in 2633! Presumably, this refers to the fact that she was destroyed in 2629 and subsequently salvaged.

Why, then, was a typical everyday attack on shipping included in TCH? And why was the elaborate backstory involving Paladin present? For this, we must look to part of the movie's original script. Early on in the original version, Paladin tells Blair and Maniac that he recieved his Kilrathi tattoo (which you can still see in the current version) after being captured following the destruction of the Iason. Hence, the addition of this story to the WC canon.

8. The Kilrathi are the only alien race (p.11)

Interesting if true! However, not true! The Confederation Handbook says that the Kilrathi are "the first space-faring, non-human civilization encountered by humanity." (p.11). Since we do not know specifically of any space-faring non-human civilizations which were encountered before the Kilrathi, this is not a contradiction. Which is to say, we now know of several space-faring non-human civilizations -- but we do not know when they were encountered, compared to the Kilrathi.

The modifier 'non-human' is also an interesting point, as it implies that human species have been encountered...

7. rEPLEETAH started in 2646.080 and ended in 2651.290 and Confed won (p. 14)

This is certainly the weakest point you've made -- lets take another location: the McAuliffe system. Does the Kilrathi attack on McAuliffe in 2634 mean that there will never be another attack on the system? Veterans of the 2639 McAuliffe Engagement and the 2654 defense of the system would certainly be surprised to learn of the intrinsic impossibility of fighting two battles at the same place. Why, then, isn't the later fighting brought up in the handbook? Because it hasn't occured yet -- the cautionary tale of bioweapons and mass slaughter on both sides' ending is ten years off... long after Blair finishes browsing the information in the handbook.

6. Tolwyn is at least 58 years old (p.7)

I'm not entirely sure how you came upon this number: we are only told that Tolwyn was *not* forty when he earned his first star. Here's a mini Tolwyn timeline of the events on page seven to help you along -- with a few others mixed in!

2613: Tolwyn born
2634-
* Tolwyn graduates Academy.
* Events of 'Action Stations'. Promoted to Lieutenant.
* Tolwyn is assigned to the First Grand Fleet. Promoted to Lieutenant Commander.
2635: Tolwyn takes command of a battleship as part of the Second Grand Fleet. Promoted to Commander.
2636-2639: Tolwyn teaches at the Solar University in Reykjavik. It is during this time that Tolwyn marries and has the first of three children.
2639: Tolwyn reactivated with the rank of Captain. Masterminds the Enyo/McAuliffe engagements.
2642: Tolwyn's third son, Reggie, is born.
2646: Tolwyn promoted to Commodore after 'command upheavals'.
 

$tormin

Vice Admiral
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

Interesting if true! However, not true! The Confederation Handbook says that the Kilrathi are "the first space-faring, non-human civilization encountered by humanity." (p.11). Since we do not know specifically of any space-faring non-human civilizations which were encountered before the Kilrathi, this is not a contradiction. Which is to say, we now know of several space-faring non-human civilizations -- but we do not know when they were encountered, compared to the Kilrathi.

The modifier 'non-human' is also an interesting point, as it implies that human species have been encountered...

that may mean the pilgrims. some may not have considered them truly human.
 

Raptor

Spaceman
Well, you're either human or you're not. If Pilgrims were considered non-human, then Confed *would* have encountered non-human space faring civilizations before. :) Besides, the fact that Arnold Blair and Devi Soulsong were able to, erm...marry and produce Christopher Blair is pretty good evidence that the two are part of the same species.

Best, Raptor
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
Sorry...I was a bit out of the loop for a time...I'm better now. Really.

Anyway, I intend to do some debating, since this thread of crap I 'created' here was actually born out of some sort of serious inquiry...but I think it'd be better if I actually got some sleep first :D
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
(...)
Interesting if true! However, not true! The Confederation Handbook says that the Kilrathi are "the first space-faring, non-human civilization encountered by humanity." (p.11). Since we do not know specifically of any space-faring non-human civilizations which were encountered before the Kilrathi, this is not a contradiction. Which is to say, we now know of several space-faring non-human civilizations -- but we do not know when they were encountered, compared to the Kilrathi.

The modifier 'non-human' is also an interesting point, as it implies that human species have been encountered...
(...)

Does that mean the Yan are a human species, or could an "interstellar war" occur even when one of the sides isn't space-faring? I think yes, since it'd still be a war between two "stars".
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

In my mind the best explanation to date for this second Iason incident is that it is a recounting of the final destruction of the famed ship. This explanation is rooted in fact -- according to the Handbook, the Iason was commisioned in 2613. It then served as an explorer... and then overhauled in 2633! Presumably, this refers to the fact that she was destroyed in 2629 and subsequently salvaged.

Why, then, was a typical everyday attack on shipping included in TCH? And why was the elaborate backstory involving Paladin present? For this, we must look to part of the movie's original script. Early on in the original version, Paladin tells Blair and Maniac that he recieved his Kilrathi tattoo (which you can still see in the current version) after being captured following the destruction of the Iason. Hence, the addition of this story to the WC canon.

Ah...touche. :) Of course, then we have the problem that the Handbook explicitly lists the Iason attack as "the first recorded contact with the Kilrathi"...
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The Iason attack *was* the first recorded contact with the Kilrathi. Just not that one.

(Well... it's not really... the earliest recorded contact with the Kilrathi was in 2621...)
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
Well...thing is, the quote states "The first recorded contact with the Kilrathi was made on 2638.229, when the exploratory vessel CS Iason encountered three armed Kilrathi merchantmen"...which doesn't really mesh well...
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The first recorded contact with the Kilrathi was in 2621 -- anything else, be it Claw Marks or The Confederation Handbook, is therefore wrong.
 

junior

Spaceman
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Interesting if true! However, not true! The Confederation Handbook says that the Kilrathi are "the first space-faring, non-human civilization encountered by humanity." (p.11). Since we do not know specifically of any space-faring non-human civilizations which were encountered before the Kilrathi, this is not a contradiction. Which is to say, we now know of several space-faring non-human civilizations -- but we do not know when they were encountered, compared to the Kilrathi.

Double-Helix was encountered shortly before WC1 (mentioned in Claw Marks, iirc).
Firrekans were contacted shortly before SM2, and might have conceivably become space-faring only due to Confed influence (Game seems to imply that they didn't have their own space-faring capabilities, although they make excellent pilots. Haven't read Freedom Flight, so I might be missing something from there.).
WCP manual seems to indicate that Confed hasn't encountered the Mantu, and only knows of them through the Kilrathi.
Steltek were seen (sorta kinda) during the 'Drone' incident in the Gemini sector shortly before the destruction of Kilrah.
WCP is all about humanity's first contact with the Nephilim.
I consider Pilgrims to be human, so they don't count.

Who else is out there?
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
As posted below, mankind fights the Yan in 2300 and some Varni came to the Confederation after they fled rfom the Kilrathi. Of course, there are plenty of races that were conquered by the Kilrathi plus those shown in WCATV.
 

Bhaktadil

Spaceman
The Yan are not human. The Firekkans are mentioned in Action Stations, which poses another minor error. If the Firekkans had already been encountered, I doubt they would already train in the Academies.

Interestingly enough, most of these supposed errors in the film were actually created by Mcubbin. The Film never specifies that this event occured at this time &c. The film actually did not have many problems other then design issues, but you wouldn't expect them to use the exact same designs from the game would you?
 
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