Tolwyn : Multiple Personalities Disorder

J

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
Is it just me or do we see Tolwyn in two differant capcities:

In WC3/WC4 we see him as a real pain in the rear jerk who wants to win the war himself. He's kind of the same way in WC2.

And then in End Run he's all about saving Jason, and in Fleet Action he's almost human as well.

Is that just because the books and the games aren't very well lined up?

I mean, we see a completely differant Tolwyn in the Academy series, but that isn't cannon so I wasn't going to mention it.
 
Assclown once said, "Tolwyn wasn't an evil facist mass-murdering black hearted delusional fool, he's just different". Ninja jumps out of nowhere, takes katana sword, chops off assclown's head.
 
Is it just me or do we see Tolwyn in two differant capcities:

In WC3/WC4 we see him as a real pain in the rear jerk who wants to win the war himself. He's kind of the same way in WC2.

And then in End Run he's all about saving Jason, and in Fleet Action he's almost human as well.

Is that just because the books and the games aren't very well lined up?
Click to expand...

The first bunch of novels were written after the WC2: SO addons but before WC3 -- so Tolwyn was perfectly friendly, and (for whatever reason -- see SO1) really, really liked Jason. :)

I mean, we see a completely differant Tolwyn in the Academy series, but that isn't cannon so I wasn't going to mention it.
Click to expand...

It is, however, canon. :)
 
Been touring Civil War Battlegrounds. =P I'm only thinking about one kind of cannon.

I was under the impression that the WC Academy TV Series wasn't canon.

And why is Tolwyn so Noble and Gallant in the novels and then just a cold hearted 7 letter word in WC3/WC4?

Based on the books he dosen't seem like the type to run a secret war and military project, nor to hang himself.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Based on the books he dosen't seem like the type to run a secret war and military project, nor to hang himself.
Click to expand...

Sure seems it in False Colors, WC3 and WC4 novelizations.

It could be any number of reasons that made him do such a 180; I think that the fact that the Kilrathi came so close to winning toward the end of the war forced Tolwyn to remake himself as a near-psycho survivalist.

Whatever made him do it is up for discussion.
 
In the WC games Tolwyn mostly deals with Blair. The two do not really like each other since the destruction of the Tiger's Claw. Tolwyn blamed Blair for it; though ten years later Blair is proven innocent, but Tolwyn still doesn't like him too much. Its hard to change your oppinion on a person after you have hated her for so long. But that doesn't mean that he hates everyone, ..well, yeah until he got crazy.
 
Well in WCIII he just came across as abrupt and abrasive, I'm WCIV he came across as the same. When he gets captured he semms really war weary and quite reasonable. Then he goes crazy.

To me it seems wrong. I think Paladin should have gone crazy, I mean he was the one who came up with the working mass-murder plan. For him to come up with that would have meant some serious re-thinking, plus it would have been more dramatic. I can actually see him pleading with Blair that they need war.

Although if that had been the plot I think the Black Lance wouldn't have been so Nazi.
 
Well, I thought False Colors showed a lot of Tolwyn's change of character (Bear seems to notice it a lot). It seems to just be living his life in war, having to work with things he himself originally thought were overkill (Behemoth, etc), and just seeing how brutal the Kilrathi were what slowly changed him. It wasn't until after WC3 that he cracked I think. Being at war for so long may have left him feeling out of place when it was finally over. And so, he brews up a plan to start another, even if it isn't with the Kilrathi.

Just my opinion from everything I've seen/read.
 
...

Tolwyn never showed any restraint with teh Behemoth. He fully intended to use that on Kilrah, even if he wasn't ordered too. There's alot of speculation in the novel and the game that Tolwyn himself wants to win the war. I think he was insane before WC3 started.

Also, he never "had to" do any duty like Behemoth. It was always referred to as "his pet project". You don't have pet projects that you hate. I think Tolwyn LIKED the Behemoth because it destroyed the homeworld.

In Fleet Action and End Run he seems normal, sane, concerned about his crews. Then they give him the third fleet, and, to hell with strategy, lets engage at Sirius! And then, Yes, there were 2 million people on that planet. And he gets his ass kicked.

And then Behemoth, and WC4. I don't think Tolwyn was ever REALLY Sane, but some strange combination of events just pushed him over the edge.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Tolwyn never showed any restraint with teh Behemoth. He fully intended to use that on Kilrah, even if he wasn't ordered too. There's alot of speculation in the novel and the game that Tolwyn himself wants to win the war. I think he was insane before WC3 started.
Click to expand...

first off, how do you show 'restraint' with a weapon designed to destroy a planet? and of course Tolwyn would have used the behemoth on kilrah even if he wasn't ordered to, just as paladin would have used the temblor bomb on kilrah even if he wasn't ordered to. why? because both men understood that was the only way to win the war

Also, he never "had to" do any duty like Behemoth. It was always referred to as "his pet project". You don't have pet projects that you hate. I think Tolwyn LIKED the Behemoth because it destroyed the homeworld.
Click to expand...

sure he had a duty. his duty was to win the war, and behemoth was a way to fulfill that duty. and sure you can have a 'pet project' you hate. in false colors, tolwyn says that the ONLY reason he pushed the behemoth into service was to get the war over quickly before the belesarus (sp?) group was able to launch their coup and take over the gov. you think that tolwyn or paladin WANTED to kill millions of kilrathi civilians by destroying kilrah. no, of course they didn't. but they both understood that it had to be done.

In Fleet Action and End Run he seems normal, sane, concerned about his crews. Then they give him the third fleet, and, to hell with strategy, lets engage at Sirius! And then, Yes, there were 2 million people on that planet. And he gets his ass kicked.
Click to expand...

what do you mean 'to hell with strategy'? Sirius was the place where all the jump points came together. it's the logical choice to wait for the kilrathi. and when he figured out where thrakath was coming from, he moved up. why? because it's logical to engage the enemy as far from your homeworld as possible. and when he fell back to sirius, yes, he says that he should have fallen back more, but grecko says that they couldn't have given up sirius without a fight. as for tolwyn getting his ass kicked, yeah, he may have lost the battle, but he kept his fleet intact, which in that situation, was much more important than wining the battle right there.

And then Behemoth, and WC4. I don't think Tolwyn was ever REALLY Sane, but some strange combination of events just pushed him over the edge.
Click to expand...

sure tolwyn was sane. just look at action stations, WC2, endrun, fleet action, and false colors. i think that a combination of civilian government stupidity, the losses at the battle of earth, the loss of the concorida, finding out about the belesarus (sp?) group, and losing the behemoth, which he thought was the only way to win the war, is what pushed him over the edge.
 
Well, there are lots of authors writing about the same characters, you are bound to have some differences. It's clear that the overall tone on the TPOF novelization is quite different from the game, for eg. But that's not all, people do change, and it's clear something happened to Tolwyn. He was not completely different, but a deranged version of himself.
 
This reminds me of anouther character who was all good then goes evil. I remember now. In the movie "The Rock" you had the cool general dude betray his country because of something he believed in. But of course his belief wasn't mass genocide. But in the end of movie he changes his mind and tries to make things better. Tolwyn on the other had no reverse so perhaps he was insane or just believed more in his belief then his oath to Confed.
 
Well I think the key to all of it is that he believed he was best fulfilling his oath to Confed and doing Humanity a favor in the long run by carrying out his program.
 
Tolwyn wasn't a major player through-out the whole war. He worked his way up and finally had the chance to grab fame for himself, but the Behemoth went the way of the Dodo.
 
LeHah said:
Tolwyn wasn't a major player through-out the whole war. He worked his way up and finally had the chance to grab fame for himself, but the Behemoth went the way of the Dodo.
Click to expand...

Thanks to everyones favorite backstabing wingman :(
 
Tolwyn had ups and downs throughout the war and afterwards, but by WC4 his fame and power were at its peak. Remember that he was the one that signed the Kilrathi surrender after all (well, there was no other actor playing an admiral around).

Hot was was competent and often brilliant no longer just in military terms, but in political ones as well. He skillfully had to use his position and prestige to manipulate the senate and public opinion. He did a great job passing a peace-loving image when he was causing the elements that would lead to war.
 
Delance said:
Tolwyn had ups and downs throughout the war and afterwards, but by WC4 his fame and power were at its peak. Remember that he was the one that signed the Kilrathi surrender after all
Click to expand...

Out of all the experiances he had during the war, that one was probley the one that boosted his repatiton and power the most. Considering how long the war lasted and he probley was seen as the one who politically ended the war and brought peace.
 
It stands to note that Tolwyn didn't sign the Treaty Of Torgo in the WC3 novelization. He was forced to sit and simmer, watching the signing from a table a few feet away.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top