This game is still alive but EA wants to kill it

[ChrisReid]

Given the ending of 5, how do you best proceed with the series?

You would proceed after Secret Ops (second wormhole opened near Confed space, Confed presumably captured it and now has a foothold into Nephilim space).

That's not sacrilege, that would be really cool. But man, if ever you could label something "Never gonna happen", that is at the top of the list.

It already did happen (Sega CD version got full speech, Super Wing Commander with completely remade and enhanced graphics).

the Kitty's were always the ultimate in bad guys. They were such a unique sort of alien... we'd never really seen an alien like that before. And not just in looks, in motivations.

The Kilrathi were pretty directly inspired by the Kzinti from Larry Niven's Man-Kzin Wars books, and they got a heavy dose of Imperial Japan and Klingon influence later on.

 

[MavS]

You would proceed after Secret Ops (second wormhole opened near Confed space, Confed presumably captured it and now has a foothold into Nephilim space).

Would be an idea, but wouldn't be too necessary... (and I could imagine Nephilim space literally swarming with ships - not a healthy region to do ANY operation in, after all that was why they destroyed the first wormhole) - remember the Kilrathi emperor eventually knowing of something moving towards Kilrathi/Confed space in the books and trying to press the war with the humans to an end because of this? I'd say the wormhole was only one option out of several the Nephilim had (maybe even some sort of a scout operation, though a decently large-sized one...) - I'd imagine big fleets of them being on-way, but still needing time to get here... Confed would have to think about how to at least slow them down and get time to prepare for them...

I could also imagine the Kilrathi emperor having sent out a few Dreadnoughts to sort of a "scouting operation" (though, as they are Kilrathi, of course try to conquer if possible) in that direction shortly before Kilrah's destruction which might be encountered by a Confed scout-force... (False Colours brought me to that idea, that more Dreadnoughts could have survived; of course at least one of them would have gotten a hit from one of the Nephilims capship-killers, am not sure if it would have been killed or "only" crippled) Now, would they hold to the treaties that were made after their departure and eventually welcome help vs. a superior enemy, or in opposite even proclaim the humans unworthy for fighting their "gods" (and thus attack the humans that get to them) ?

Oh, and there remains that riddle about Blair to be solved - I'd think they didn't start it without having a solution already in mind... though that wouldn't neccessarily have to be in the next game already, could have been planned for a later stage of the plot.

 

[Sarty]

The "something" moving towards Kilrathi space was the Mantu, not the Nephilim. The Kilrathi had briefly fought the Mantu before and as it seems were throroughly outmatched until the Mantu suddenly left, presumably to face something on the other side of their own borders. As explained in Fleet Action, the Kilrathi had detected that the Mantu were coming back towards them. The Hakagas were built to end the war against Confed and at the same time prepare them for the Mantu.

 

[Dougly]

Originally posted by Sarty:
The "something" moving towards Kilrathi space was the Mantu, not the Nephilim. The Kilrathi had briefly fought the Mantu before and as it seems were throroughly outmatched until the Mantu suddenly left, presumably to face something on the other side of their own borders. As explained in Fleet Action, the Kilrathi had detected that the Mantu were coming back towards them. The Hakagas were built to end the war against Confed and at the same time prepare them for the Mantu.

And, if I recall correctly, Confed seems to think that the Mantu aren't actually much of a threat. Indeed, I seem to recall Confed Intell saying that the Mantu have been "mythologized" by the Kilrathi. In reality, the Mantu are simply a race of explorers who didn't take kindly to Kilrathi aggression.

 

[Death]

Right, the Mantu were covered in the ICIS manual that came with Prophecy, where Confed Intel was talking about who the bugs were not, towards the end of the manual.

 

[MavS]

Right, the Mantu were covered in the ICIS manual that came with Prophecy, where Confed Intel was talking about who the bugs were not, towards the end of the manual.

Yeah, that point I remember... must be remembering the books false then - I thought the Mantu as well as something other were mentioned (and somehow still think so - should read the books again, it seems). And I also think it was not only in Fleet Action, but also in the WC3-book, because I somehow connect the construction of the dreadnoughts with it... but then again, I should reread the books to see where I got those impressions from.

And Dougly: The Nephilim are plot-wise thought to be aliens, not gods, so if the Kilrathi do believe them to be gods, they mythologized them, as well.

OK, so it seems I got something wrong... But I still like that plot idea. And I will dig out the books, though I have so many unread books that I don't know when I'll get to them.


Oh and another idea - when I wrote my above idea I had not thought much about the Mantu, but as you reminded me of them now, I'd say they could play a role in the continuation of the storyline, too...

 

[Lt.Death100]

The advantage I could see about going into Nephilim territory is to learn more about how they work. That scientific info could be very valuable.

 

[Dougly]

Originally posted by Mav S
The Nephilim are plot-wise thought to be aliens, not gods, so if the Kilrathi do believe them to be gods, they mythologized them, as well

Right, that makes sense if you go by what the WCP manual says on page 18:

In the 250-odd years since the Mantu conflict, the Kilrathis have aggrandized, vilified, and generally mythologized their former foe (a similar process is no occurring towards Confed - it seems to be an intrinsic Kilrathi trait to deify/demonize those enemies which cannot be defeated). However, the Mantu war is a historical conflict which left contemporary records, and these have been examined by Terran historians since the surrender.

Once the propoganda and legend are stripped away, the Mantu seem to have been an insular, somewhat paranoid race of exploreres and prospectors who reacted with extreme prejudice to Kilrathi aggression. Significantly, there is no suggestion in the historical record that the initial aggressor in the conflict was the Mantu. Probably the Kilrathi assaulted non-military Mantu vessels in much the same way that they did at the beginning of the Terran conflict.

Basically, the scenario that the WCP manual seems to lay out is:

1) Kilrathi encounter Mantu. Mantu are paranoid, and would more or less prefer to be left alone.

2) Kilrathi begin attacking civilian Mantu ships, much as would later do with civilian Terran ships.

3) This - understandably - pisses the Mantu off. They respond with extreme prejudice.

4) Mantu turn out to be much stronger than the Kilrathi initially thought, and the war ends in a standoff.

5) Kilrathi begin demonizing the Mantu, making them out to be much more aggressive than they really are, because the cats simply don't like having an unconquered enemy out there.

Of course they did the same thing with the Nephilim. In fact, the Nephilim promised to return to conquer the Kilrathi after they've lost to an alien enemy. This might have something to do with why the Kilrathi demonize other unconquered enemies, as well... Fear of what's going to happen when they finally do lose a war.

 

[Sarty]

1) Kilrathi encounter Mantu. Mantu are paranoid, and would more or less prefer to be left alone.

2) Kilrathi begin attacking civilian Mantu ships, much as would later do with civilian Terran ships.

3) This - understandably - pisses the Mantu off. They respond with extreme prejudice.

4) Mantu turn out to be much stronger than the Kilrathi initially thought, and the war ends in a standoff.

5) Kilrathi begin demonizing the Mantu, making them out to be much more aggressive than they really are, because the cats simply don't like having an unconquered enemy out there.

IIRC, the war with the Mantu didn't end in a standoff. The Kilrathi were actually beaten back, but before the Mantu hit the inner worlds, they turned around and went home. The Kilrathi believed that the Mantu had a more dangerous enemy on the far side of their space that called their attention away. The Kilrathi knew that the Mantu would come back some day though, and built the Hakagas as a way of finding even footing with the Mantu.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The "something" moving towards Kilrathi space was the Mantu, not the Nephilim.

Not entirely - the reference in Action Stations, which was edited and published after Prophecy, is to the Nephilim rather than the Mantu.


For those interested in what little we do know about the Mantu, here's a short history I wrote to address the issue the last time it appeared:

The major conflict between the Empire of Kilrah and the Mantu began around 2429. Terran historians believe that it was borne out of Kilrathi aggression towards civilian Mantu ships. The Mantu, an paranoid, insular race of explorers and prospectors, reacted to these attacks with extreme prejudice, pursuing a major invasion of Kilrathi space. It was warfare on a scale unprecedented and overwhelming to the Kilrathi of the 25th century. The conflict ultimately ended around 2431 when the Mantu withdrew their forces to pursue warfare in another theater.

In the years that followed, the Kilrathi demonized the Mantu per their own sociological imperative. The Cult of Sivar religion, founded on the Prophecy of Sivar's threat that the species would be annihilated by Star Gods should they ever falter in battle, would not allow for a conflict to be so ignobly ended. The Kilrathi came to believe that the war was not over but rather that both sides were preparing for a second, prologned fight. In reality, the Mantu had offered no such threats and have not since shown any practical interest in continuing the conflict.

This belief, however, gained even more strength in 2598 when a border skrimish broke out between the two nations. The battle ended in another draw. At the same time, it further reinforced Kilrathi paranoia regarding the Mantu: during the fighting it became clear that Mantu technology had advanced more quickly than that of the Kilrathi. Overlooked entirely by the Kilrathi was the fact that they had again instigated the fighting - in the two and a half centuries since the close of the war there has not been a single recorded border violation on the part of the Mantu.

Details of the Mantu's 'other war' are scarce, save that it involved a neighboring race or races and that it lasted some 235 years, finally ending in 2666. The next year a long range probe informed Kilrathi leadership that the centuries old conflict had concluded with a Mantu victory. Two years later, similar reports claimed forces were being reapportioned along the Mantu-Kilrathi border. So, at the height of the Terran-Kilrathi War, an Empire honestly convinced it was threatened on two fronts prepared for the worst...

 

[MavS]

Of course they did the same thing with the Nephilim. In fact, the Nephilim promised to return to conquer the Kilrathi after they've lost to an alien enemy. This might have something to do with why the Kilrathi demonize other unconquered enemies, as well... Fear of what's going to happen when they finally do lose a war.

Yep, the way I understand the WCP manual, it more or less says this to exactly be the main reason for the Kilrathi's aggressiveness...

Thanks for the extract, LOAF - yet this still leaves to speculate if the Mantu already encountered the Nephilim and how their relationship to them is or, if they don't know them yet, how they would react to being confronted with them...

 

[Dougly]

Having just played through the orginal Privateer, I'm also left wondering the same thing about the Steltek. Have they ever encountered the Nephilim? If so, what's their relationship?

 

[ChrisReid]

I don't think I understand why people are so interested in what races met the Nephilim besides the Kilrathi. There's lots of different alien races in the galaxy. The Steltek shouldn't really have a relationship with any of them.