Scenario 2 Comment Thread

Why was Bravo 1 allowed to take a non-afterburner evasive action? Does this mean Garga 1 could simply have moved and turned to avoid the DF missile too? This essentially will mean that any DF shot can simply be "dodged" if you can use regular movement to 'side step' them, at the usual evasive action penalty of no movement next turn.

By the time you know a missile is coming, you barely have time to either launch a chaff pod, or hit the afterburners; you shouldn't have time to REDUCE SPEED and calmly turn out of the way... the missile is coming in at a speed of 12!
I was pretty sure this would stir up some controversy... And I totally understand Avacar's point - it's the main reason why I allowed only straight "panicky" afterburner maneuvers in the first version of the evasive action rules after all. So let's talk this over! I'll start with a quote from the manual:

This will only work on ships with afterburners, since you effectively need to outrun missiles. Any maneuver is allowed, as long as it gets you out of the chasing missile’s range or fire arc.

I read that passage a few times before deciding whether Sylvester's move was legitimate or not. First, there's the note that evasive action can only be taken by ships "with afterburners" - but I noticed (as did Guilherme) that the manual doesn't state they have to be engaged. So that's definitely a glitch in the manual. The next sentence makes things worse by explaining that any maneuver is allowed...
I already fixed this for v0.15, but in v0.14 it's definitely there. I don't like it either, though, so I can see two options right now:

1) We live with it in this scenario, but upcoming games will employ the updated rule (no evasive action without afterburners).
2) We go back one step and Sylvester agrees to engage afterburners instead. (Which won't take him off the map, but a little further away from the action.)

Your two cents?
 
Let's allow non-afterburner evasive actions this game and keep playing.


And i already have a justificative to allow this: We (confed pilots) are amazing pilots, so we can do such kind of risky manuever (like dodge a missile *cof* *cof*) with excelence :D
 
Let's allow non-afterburner evasive actions this game and keep playing.


And i already have a justificative to allow this: We (confed pilots) are amazing pilots, so we can do such kind of risky manuever (like dodge a missile *cof* *cof*) with excelence :D

We may as well allow it for this game, but in the future I think one should be required to use afterburners. However, I do think a shelton-slide dodge should be OK.
 
I think that the manual was written with the spirit of forcing players to use afterburners to take evasive actions from missiles. Now why I may argue that because the DF is unguided, its much easier to avoid being hit, in the spirit of the game, I say to go back and change my manuever so that I used my afterburners.
 
I too am in favour of restricting it to AB manoeuvers in this current game as well.

First, I've always read the rules as limiting it to AB manoeuvers, else it wouldn't have made sense to put the AB requirement in, more a minimum turn rate.

Second, if we allow it, we also have to allow Garga 1 and even Guilherme to chose again if they want to evade and that would put a halt to the game for longer than just changing Sylvester's move.

(I also have several reasons why I think that evading missiles should be limited to AB manoeuvers generally but as I understand it, we all agree that this will be the case with the new rules, so no need to argue there).

Edit: I just saw that the TacOps already has changed Sylvester's move so I guess it's all ok now.
 
Now that Sylvester has given his OK: Evasive action will require afterburner movement in this game and every game to follow (until stated otherwise :p). I've updated the v0.15 manual to include the fact that engaging the afterburners is mandatory. Thanks to Sylvester for responding as fast and kind as he did! :)
 
I think that the manual was written with the spirit of forcing players to use afterburners to take evasive actions from missiles. Now why I may argue that because the DF is unguided, its much easier to avoid being hit, in the spirit of the game, I say to go back and change my manuever so that I used my afterburners.

:D spirit of the game my @$$! You just don't want me right up your tail with 4 pulses of neutron guns! ;) :)
 
From what I can tell, Bravo 2 should be one cell to the right, or had a speed of 4 not 3. Also, I have *no idea* how Zeta 1 got where they are with a 'speed of 5 turn 2'...
 
From what I can tell, Bravo 2 should be one cell to the right, or had a speed of 4 not 3. Also, I have *no idea* how Zeta 1 got where they are with a 'speed of 5 turn 2'...

Well, actually, Zeta 2 is showing Zeta 1's movement orders, I think... Zeta 1 did the shelton slide.
 
Okay, but if it was a Shelton Slide... Epee's have afterburners have a speed of 14.... so that should be seven straight and then seven to the left, then the extra turn... which should put Zeta 1 a few squares further to the left....
 
I hate it when you're right... ;)
Actually, I haven't found out what could be wrong concerning Bravo 2's movement. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2, on the other hand, both performed a Shelton slide - but I made a few mistakes when placing Zeta 1. (Didn't strike out one afterburner charge, didn't change the "Last Maneuver Performed" text, didn't place the ship correctly.) It's all fixed now, I hope... Please refresh your browser window (or try deleting your browser's cache). If the FF missiles are in the middle of their respective hex, then you've got the new version.

I'm very sorry! Sometimes these things happen, especially when I'm having a concert the same day... :(
 
Also, for my orders (Skabak 3) I gave the order:

Skabak 3 afterburns and turns to starboard 60 degress and attempts to perform a Shelton slide for a 120 degree turn to starboard.

With the 60 degree turn being 1 hex (shelton slide failed) shouldn't that put me behind and a little above Zeta 2 while pointing away? The hopeful outcome of my orders was to be able to get some opportunity fire on Zeta 2. My orders as of the board say that my orders were to turn 2 to right, which is not what I intended
 
I hate it when you're right... ;)
Actually, I haven't found out what could be wrong concerning Bravo 2's movement.

Bravo 2 declared 'Speed 3, turn 2 left'. So this is forward 2 (half movement rounded up) then first turn left for free, then second turn left at a cost of 1 movement... meaning it can't move forward. What you've shown would be a speed 4 turn left 2. Not that it really makes a big difference as far as firing opportunities or anything, but either the speed/order is wrong, or the unit is placed incorrectly. (Or I've misinterpreted the rules, and you'd know that better than I). Bravo 2 should be 1 square to the right, facing the same direction.
 
Maybe I shouldn't have done it yesterday night... ;) You're both right, of course! I (again) fixed it and uploaded the new version. I hope that was the last time... :(
 
'cmon guys, let's try to get this turn finished before Ironduke leaves! I submitted substitute orders for Quailpilot in case he can't submit his own... so Sylvester, 'cmon and submit! (Or his team lead, could you submit override orders to get things going?)
 
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