Privateer: The Reckoning OpenSP Beta v4.0

warzog

Spaceman
KnightLight:
You're right about the turrets...
But most people wanted them, so they're in there.

I'll see if there's a way I haven't thought of, yet, to decrease the amount of salvage.

As to the nav problem...
I've been trying to solve that problem, but with little success.
 
K

KnightLight

Guest
Decrease salvage? Oh no! Wheeee phat lewt!
I have yet to buy a weapon, shield, or generator upgrade, got to level 4 and Enhanced Afterburner just from salvage :D
Maybe it's a bit much. But I doubt a privateer would complain...

Oh, by the way, the Centurion is absolutely awesome looking.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
warzog said:
When Privateer came out, Chris Roberts said that he wanted more ships, more equipment, more developed systems/bases, and more weapons, but that the computers of the day couldn't handle it.
IMHO, Freelancer was going to be what Privateer had been meant to be.
Unfortunately, the powers that be didn't, and that probably caused the rift that led to Roberts leaving.
I truly believe that Roberts was trying to make "Privateer 3-Freelancer."
Just one detail - more ships, more equipment, more developed systems, more weapons, et cetera - that's all the stuff that FreeLancer did have, and which made FreeLancer so vanilla-flavoured. Mmm, should I buy Generic Fighter A, or should I save up another twenty thousand to buy Generic Fighter B, identical except for better shields? That's the kind of difficult choices that FreeLancer's incredible range of equipment subjected players to. To be honest, I'll take Privateer's four ships any day :).


...I mean, don't get me wrong. I believe you when you say that a lot of neat stuff was cut out of FreeLancer. I'm even willing to believe that some of it might have actually made the game better (heck, if buyable engines would have meant different speeds for different ships, I'm even willing to believe that whoever removed them was a member of an evil conspiracy that wanted to make FreeLancer suck :)). What I disagree about is the idea that Chris Roberts' departure was a bad thing for FreeLancer. The two things I dislike the most about FreeLancer (and, just so we're clear, I don't hate the game - I kinda like it, I just don't think it's especially great) are:

a) the strong, linear storyline, which requires all players to do the exact same thing in a game that claims to allow players to do whatever they want (!). Even worse, the game required you to do everything in exactly the right order, literally grinding to a halt if you refused to carry on with the storyline (Screw Juni, I wanna go to Rheinland. Hmm, but I can't leave New York until I've done this part of the storyline. Ok, but will I be able to go to Rheinland after that? No, I'll have to do a bunch of missions in Liberty first... and then? Bretonnia. If you were to assess FreeLancer solely on the basis of whether the gameplay matches the game's name and the back-of-the-box description, you would have to conclude that FreeLancer is the worst game ever made. And that is Chris Roberts' fault - FreeLancer was his brainchild, so he had to be the one who okayed the game's storyline and the stupidly restrictive manner in which it was implemented.

It's especially funny to note the problems that the storyline caused: in Kusari space, when you were given a break from the storyline, about the only thing you could do is hunt Blood Dragons or their allies, the Golden Chrysantemums or whatever they were called... and what's your next storyline mission? Oh, helping Blood Dragons.
<Juni> Trent, I'd like you to meet Blood Dragon Guy. We'll be working for him now.
<Trent> Uhhh...
<Blood Dragon Guy> Mister Trent, I'm so glad to meet you. Over the last few days, you've killed several dozen members of my organisation... but Juni tells me you're a nice guy, so I like you!
<Trent> Oh.... so you're not going to kill me? Cool.

b) the lack of variety in ships. The ships in the game were divided into just three categories - fighters, better fighters, and freighters. The fact that there was half a dozen ships in each category doesn't change much, because the differences were so miniscule that you simply didn't care what you bought, as long as it was better than your last ship. Of course, the choice between a freighter and a fighter could have been a significant one... except that the game's storyline left you without the shadow of a doubt that no, you're not supposed to play with a freighter, you're supposed to buy a secret superfighter for fifty cents instead.
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
Quarto said:
b) the lack of variety in ships. The ships in the game were divided into just three categories - fighters, better fighters, and freighters. The fact that there was half a dozen ships in each category doesn't change much, because the differences were so miniscule that you simply didn't care what you bought, as long as it was better than your last ship. Of course, the choice between a freighter and a fighter could have been a significant one... except that the game's storyline left you without the shadow of a doubt that no, you're not supposed to play with a freighter, you're supposed to buy a secret superfighter for fifty cents instead.
FreeLancer must indeed be the spiritual sequel to Privateer 2.

It took Priv 2's concept of "let's have a lot of ships that fly the same" (one of the very few bad aspects of P2 as a generic space combat game, as opposed to a Wing Commander game) and evolved it into "let's have a lot more ships that fly the same and look the same, except for extra parts we'll attach to a common basic hull design to represent a different ship. Did I say different? I meant better."
 
K

KnightLight

Guest
I just think Freelancer went WAY overboard on different kinds of fighters and weapons, and yet kept an iron grip on you while you did the story, the only really interesting missions in the game. SO, if you wanted to have the Eagle, my fave FL ship, you had to finish the whole story and then do killing missions over and over and over and over.

Frankly, every mission in FL is "fly to x and kill y" where y can be a fighter or a station or a piece of cargo, etc.

I really wish that there were a way to at least implement escort or defense or special cargo missions...
 

Exarch

Spaceman
Just one question: will you plan on adding large cap ships like Exeters and Fralthis into the game? I'd love to go to Kilrathi space and splash a few carriers.
 

Nomad Terror

Rear Admiral
Actually, since Freelancer can be played online, the vast variety of ships makes for more interesting looking battles. If everyone was flying around in one of four ships it would be hard to tell people apart. There's enough variety in the ship design that everyone can have kind of their own perfect ship.

And also if you had enough friends you could run your own PvP server and stage your own missions. Few friends and I sometimes get together to make some really fun two hour long multi legged cargo runs and then go crazy buying stuff afterwards.
 

warzog

Spaceman
Quarto:
You're discribing what I call, "Being led around by the nose."
And blaming Chris Roberts for that, IMHO, is wrong.
Especially when one considers that it's one of Microsoft's only means of putting "difficulty" into a game.
Back in the time that Privateer was made, we called games like Freelancer, "Once Through" games.
IE: Once you go through it, you're through with it, forever!
Microsoft, and many other companies use it as a way to increase sales, by making them so boring you have to get something new A.S.A.P.!

Which, BTW, is why I didn't buy Freelancer when it first came out.
It wasn't until I discovered that it could be modded, and that it was already fairly similar to Privateer.

Oh, and if you ignore Juni, after you reach Bretonia, you CAN go to Rheinland.
You can go anywhere!
I've gotten around a million credits from just salvaging wrecks.


Nomad Terror:
No flippin' way!
That POS is for playing Freelancer UN-Moded.
It corrects typos and minor errors in the coding that interferes with most complicated mods like Privateer.


KnightLight:
Download my "The Equalizer Mk IV" mod from Lancer's Reactor.
You can buy ANY ship ANY time you've got the money.
AND...
You can start with ANY ship you want!


Exarch:
I'd love to!
But we need the models.
And we need them set up for Freelancer.
Most of the models in the mod were done by people just for fun, or for other mods, such as the WC Saga mod.
Tolwyn, and Bob McDob, both of whom are working on the WC Saga mod, used to work on this mod too.
Shortly after I came onboard, they left to concentrate on Saga, and I've had difficulty getting any more models.
Bob did manage to come up with Perry, and New Constantinople, since then.
And I got permission to use the Banshee and TCS Vesuvius from other Freelancer/Wing Commander fans at Lancer's Reactor.
And a new contributor came up with the Privateer Mining Base, but that's it.
We were promised the Dragon, the Excalibur, the Concordia, and a few others, back in March, but we still don't have them.


Nomad Terror:
I think that Freelancer ended up as it did due to Multiplayer considerations.
All of the limitations would point towards trying to prevent online cheating.
 

IPhoenixI

Spaceman
Wow...Privateer and multiplayer! :D I think I will end up buying Freelancer just to play this. (I'm aware im probably the only one on the boards that hasent got around trying the game yet.)

Are you looking for any kind of feeback on general ideas for the mod? If this has allready been answered I appologize, but is there going to be more then the four ships from the origonal Privateer available to the player? Also, will things such as....smuggling :D be improved?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I just downloaded this mod, and it's good beyond all reason. Congratulations. I will start tinkering with it shortly.

Since it's a beta, where should I send bug reports, and what format do you want them in?
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
Most excellent. still playing through, lovin it :)

my only real suggestion is maybe increase the cruise velocity a bit. some of those across system journeys get mighty lengthy. Run out of the big gulp half way through the system, just not good to deprive a guy of his big gulp! heh

Brad Mick
 

Exarch

Spaceman
Exarch:
I'd love to!
But we need the models.
And we need them set up for Freelancer.
Most of the models in the mod were done by people just for fun, or for other mods, such as the WC Saga mod.
Tolwyn, and Bob McDob, both of whom are working on the WC Saga mod, used to work on this mod too.
Shortly after I came onboard, they left to concentrate on Saga, and I've had difficulty getting any more models.
Bob did manage to come up with Perry, and New Constantinople, since then.
And I got permission to use the Banshee and TCS Vesuvius from other Freelancer/Wing Commander fans at Lancer's Reactor.
And a new contributor came up with the Privateer Mining Base, but that's it.
We were promised the Dragon, the Excalibur, the Concordia, and a few others, back in March, but we still don't have them.

Well, I have a Fralthi, Exeter, Bengal, Ralari, Snakier, and the Concordia on my desktop from the now-dead Fleet Action Homeworld mod, all untextured though. Whether it is proper to use them in your mod or not I'm not sure, but I can give you them if you want.
 

GreyViper

Rear Admiral
2) I don't recall turrets firing forward in WC games except for Prophecy with the Devastator's plethora of wildly firing auto-lasers. (they always screwed up my accuracy rating) On my Centurian, though, I have a plasma turret floating above (:confused:) my ship, firing forward with my other guns.
The closest thing to this in Freelancer is Trains tail turret.

Ok, having played the game some time, I must say WOW. First versions were nice, but this is really good stuff. :D

Few sugestions:
1) turret for gothri
2) remove armors, scanners & shields generators from loot drop they come to cheap no need to buy them. :rolleyes: Most ships if they are destroyed loose their armor and shields generators(they did in Priv). Loot drop could be smaller around 5% or so. I got plasma gun with my first mission & isometal armor. :p
3) Vesuvius has no cargo to buy and it ship selection is that of Kiev, could use some change like Hellcat, Thunderbolt, Morningstar.
4) in Perry's ship buying screen Crossbow is missing its icon.
5) On starting planet replace Gothri with Orion, you get it to early and its somwhat better then Centurion. Its place cold be in Kilrathi sectors.

Btw didnt find Bearcat is it in or out?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
warzog said:
Quarto:
You're discribing what I call, "Being led around by the nose."
And blaming Chris Roberts for that, IMHO, is wrong.
Especially when one considers that it's one of Microsoft's only means of putting "difficulty" into a game.
Back in the time that Privateer was made, we called games like Freelancer, "Once Through" games.
IE: Once you go through it, you're through with it, forever!
Microsoft, and many other companies use it as a way to increase sales, by making them so boring you have to get something new A.S.A.P.!
Well, it's always convenient to blame a big faceless corporation like Microsoft, but in this case, Microsoft is clearly blameless. You have to cast your mind back to 1996, for a moment...

A lot of people believe that WC4 was Chris Roberts' best game. Yet, there was so much friction between Roberts and EA about this game, and so much interference from EA, that the end result was Chris Roberts leaving and setting up Digital Anvil.
He didn't want to make the same mistake twice, so he was very careful about the agreement he made with Microsoft. Microsoft ended up in the role of the silent partner - they gave DA money, and had virtually no say in how it was spent (of course, whether Microsoft was ever truly a silent partner as DA claimed is unlikely; but it is a fact that for the first three years of DA's miserable existence, there was very little - too little - interference from Microsoft). They trusted that the guy responsible for one of the most successful game series of all time knew what he was doing, and could be relied upon to produce StarLancer and FreeLancer without excessive interference. These were, after all, the heady days of the late 1990s, when it seemed like every great game designer was leaving their corporate home to set up their own company that would revolutionise gaming. Neither StarLancer nor Dai-Katana had yet come out, and consequently Microsoft, Eidos and the other 'silent' partners didn't yet realise how foolish they were - so they continued to trust Chris Roberts and John Romero.

The upshot of this is that, during the vital years of planning and pre-production, where everything about a game is or at least should be decided, Chris Roberts had nearly complete control. And so, how is it that under his control, FreeLancer, a game all about making your own decisions, ended up with a stupidly restrictive storyline that required everyone to do the same thing? There can be only two answers:
a) Chris Roberts wanted it that way. It's not as though Wing Commander 4 is famous for the amount of freedom it offered to the player - sure, it had a lot of branching, but the player still operated within very strict parametres, with no real influence on the plot. This is what Chris Roberts is good at, so this is what he did with FreeLancer. Like I said before, he's a good designer - but egad, he should be kept away from projects like this one.
b) Chris Roberts screwed the pooch. He was so incompetent that he left the storyline for later, and subsequently a stupidly restrictive storyline was imposed on the game after his departure.

I'd like to think it was option A - not only because it allows me to retain some respect for Chris Roberts, but also because we all know that a storyline is not something that can be thrown together in a few months at the tail-end of a project, so the idea that Microsoft imposed the storyline after Roberts' departure is pretty silly.

Whatever the answer is, it is pretty clear that Chris Roberts is the guy to blame for one of FreeLancer's greatest weaknesses. He was in command, he was in control, so he's the one that gets strung up because his squadron screwed the pooch on the mission :). EA had interfered far more with WC4 than Microsoft did with FL during those first few years - so unless we're about to start giving EA (as opposed to Roberts) credit for making WC4 so great, we have to also give Roberts credit for making FreeLancer suck.

There is another thing worth adding here. When you talk about it all being Microsoft's fault, you imply that there is such a thing as a standard Microsoft game. But Microsoft is not EA - they maintain very strict managerial control over most projects they finance (probably even more so now, after losing millions on Digital Anvil), but they don't exercise such all-encompassing creative control. Halo is completely different to FreeLancer, both are completely different to Age of Empires, and all three are completely different to StarLancer. Microsoft wants its developers to make games that sell... but Microsoft's upper management has always seemed surprisingly aware of the fact that they know nothing about computer games, and should leave the creative decisions to their developers when possible. The consequence is that some of their games are designed to be completed once and never returned to, some are designed to be played on multiplayer with the single-player mode serving only as a bonus, and some are designed to allow people to make dozens of mods - "Once Through" games, as you put it, are not Microsoft's standard method, because Microsoft has no standard method.

Finally, there's a question worth asking that nobody ever seems to ask. FreeLancer had been in development for an incredibly long time before Microsoft stepped in. The game was released in 2003, but if you search the CIC news archives, you can find reports from Chris and LOAF about playing early versions of the game at E3 as far back as 2000. So, when it was released in 2003, the game looked good... but it was already very dated in some ways (just look at its models). There is no doubt, meanwhile, that when Microsoft finally pushed Roberts aside, they gave the order to cut the game down to size and get it done. Which begs the question - how much longer would Roberts have taken to finish it? I'd say we'd have been looking at a very late 2003 release, possibly even 2004. In which case, the game would have sucked, because it would have been released simultaneously with a generation of games designed to take advantage of the newest graphics cards. Everyone would have laughed at its graphics and models, which were actually amazing... back in the year 2000. No, Microsoft didn't ruin Chris Roberts' brainchild - in this sad little story, Microsoft was the good guy who stepped in at the last possible moment to save the game (but also deserves a solid amount of blame for not stepping in earlier).

I'm sure parts of what I wrote above are not true - there's so much we don't know (and we'll never know) about the backstage events behind FL that it's impossible to fully understand the whole thing. However, I daresay my argument is a lot closer to the truth than yours, because it's based on more than just the assumption that Microsoft, as huge and evil corporate entity, had to be the one who ruined FreeLancer. I really think Chris Roberts is a great game designer - and I think that's all the more reason to let him take the blame for his own mistakes instead of trying to shift them onto other people.
 

lorddarthvik

Spaceman
I'v just played a bit with the mod, and got an error at Perry Naval Base: when i clik on the Bar icon, the game quits to desktop, work something with the HD, and then sais the usual message"do i want ot report this error to Microshit..." . Its just my game, or is this happens in some cases with otherts too, or I just haven't read the whole thread :) ? Great mod btw, many thanx for it. The only things i miss are the Cap ships though. BTW, is there a lonbow modell in the game? if no, then i may provide you with one, it just needs textures. I would be glad to join in the makeing of modells, but i lack the time :( One more thing: is there a polygon limit to ships, or its just that all the modells are so old (or rather: originals from games). I just ask cause usually i can count the polygons on my fingers... :( The Privateer ships like the Tarsus, looks great, but the texturing of them could be better, just by adding some dirt,contrast to panel lines,etc.. thats not much work, can be done in about ten minutes / modell :) One more thing: is the game supposed to start in the system XN-1927 with the message "reached level9", with a Tarsus, and 5000 bucks? Just cause last time i read about the game, it said I should start with a confed Epee. THis is no problem, just that "level9" message seemed strange :)
 

lorddarthvik

Spaceman
i just seen a Sabre. i wanted to buy it, but then i saw that its textureing is bad. it is not mapped, the texture is simply thrown onto the modell :(
 

Fickser

Spaceman
I've hand the exact same crash to desktop at the Perry Naval Base when the bar icon is clicked. Its been mentioned that it needs DX 9c to work properly and i do have DX 9c installed still crashs at Perry Bar. Most be some other issue :)
 

lorddarthvik

Spaceman
indeed, i have Dx9c too :( one more thing: pirates steltek and kilrathi are Friendly!!! towards me. Maybe i changed something way back, and it causes everyone to be friendly, or its the cause of the nostory mod?
 
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