Poll -- take two

Who is the WCU project leader; And, who should have the final say on what goes in?


  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

Penta2

Spaceman
OK, after reading it:

Looks good, LOAF. Very good.

However, I would dispute Gemini being 'quiet'.

Sol Sector is quiet. Gemini is the Wild West. Enigma and Vega are like the trenches of WWI.

That's one thing that stood out for me, reading the Privateer manual again. Gemini is not a place most people would go. It's a border sector. A quiet sector, compared to the Vega and Enigma sectors, but still on the borders.

Something also: I am unsure that the Confederation would issue Letters of Marque (the proper term) as such. Everybody wandering around with military-spec armament and rights to fire freely makes the state's monopoly on violence difficult. Indeed, one of the traditional conditions for a sovereign state in international law is that it has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Such is why privateers were banned by treaty in the 1850s, with privateering becoming universally illegal (as more and more states adopted the treaty) by the 1890s; When you allow ordinary folks to exercise force on your behalf but not under your control, you cede a vital power of the sovereign: the right to authorize violence.

What is more likely is that, like how towns in the American colonies required every able-bodied male to own a gun and be available for service in the militia, Confederation regulations encourage every ship flying in the border sectors to be armed, to defend against the Kilrathi. On the same level, surplus ships are more widely available in the border sectors.

The fact that piracy and the like starts up is an unintended, and unwanted, consequence. After the war, the Confederation intends to crack down. However, they have bigger problems right now.

Some additional roles we may want to consider, in consequence:

1. Passenger liners.

2. Military contractors: People contracted by the military to join convoys in the war zones, for example. Or contracted to handle 'rear-area security', garrisoning rear systems in the war zones.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Hmm, I'm thinking of Gemini as being a bit evolved from the "wild west" -- it's been settled for thirty years, there hasn't been a major battle there since 2658, there's a civil infrastructure that's been developed. It's not the developed Sol Sector, but it's nothing compared to the front lines. (This is more or less a way to take into account the idea that ships seen in WC3 are a lot stronger and that weapons bought in places like the Landreich are a lot more expensive.)

I think the idea that the government has issued Letter of Marque is implied -- the name of the game is, afterall, Privateer. Having a Letter of Marque is what makes Burrows different from a pirate... the government wants him raiding Kilrathi shipping. There are certainly various other groups which fit your description -- militia units, Home Defense squadrons and the like... but they're all distinct from Privateers.

I like the Passenger Liner concept... use it as a pretty easy way to get the player to explore various neat items in the universe. Similarly, there should be a way to evolve the "Scout" role from the original game. Instead of just pre-set plot missions, there should be a permanent way to play the game by exploring odd anomalies the 'yellow' systems.
 

Penta2

Spaceman
Point.

Thought: Privateer evolved as a slang term for the various independent types that didn't fit anywhere else, who were often contracted by Confed to run patrols along the border. Some geek on Oxford put it in an editorial, and the term stuck.

Re the Yellow Systems: We've no way of letting players establish colonies on their own, maybe not running them but getting bounties from Confed for establishing one and getting it up and running?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Thought: Privateer evolved as a slang term for the various independent types that didn't fit anywhere else, who were often contracted by Confed to run patrols along the border. Some geek on Oxford put it in an editorial, and the term stuck.

I'm not really sure I see the point. What would be the impetus for changing the role of the privateer?

Re the Yellow Systems: We've no way of letting players establish colonies on their own, maybe not running them but getting bounties from Confed for establishing one and getting it up and running?

I think making your own colonies / running your own bases / warships / etc. is "too big" in the game play context. It breaks the character of the game -- you lose a personal element when your character is suddenly doing what it'd take thousands of people to reasonably do.
 

Penta2

Spaceman
It doesn't change the role of the privateer, just changes where it came from. Why? Because Letters of Marque send shivers down the spine of anybody with knowledge of International Relations and International Law. They basically would say 'Hi, we can't control our turf, or our lines of communication.' As soon as governments could avoid saying that with any credibility, they did.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Eh, this is the same Privateer setting that makes human slavery pretty commonplace. Wing Commander is a mashed up collection of historical elements in space, not a realistic future timeline.
 

dan_w

Spaceman
charlieg said:
It takes two to tango. Dan_w was being pretty inflammatory. I have to say that, even though the whole thing might have stemmed from the 'disagreement' in the Michelle thread which you might argue LOAF started, dan_w was trying pretty hard to be as obnoxious as possible from what I saw before his posts were deleted.

Interesting! I'm accused of being "inflamatory" at a thread I never replied to even once!
So, charlieg, you think that posting lies will make you many friends?
Well, I guess "people" like you might like you better...
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
dan_w said:
Interesting! I'm accused of being "inflamatory" at a thread I never replied to even once!
So, charlieg, you think that posting lies will make you many friends?
Well, I guess "people" like you might like you better...

Please stop using this thread and these forums to grind whatever your axe is. You've made it clear that you're not interested in helping with the project - everyone respects that choice, but it doesn't help anyone for you to continue fighting with anyone you've decided is looking at you funny.
 
ei guys ^^; i'm going to respect your decision whatever it will be and go back to work ok? thanks for the support in the first place... second, get the update :) can't wait to merge it with the new commerce and mission stuff.

i need to make minefields @_@;
 

dan_w

Spaceman
BradMick said:
actually, if you want to get technical on this issue...

Dan_W ran off because he wasn unable to handle any kind of criticism. that and apparently having someone post examples (as a means of help) somehow offended him, and turned me into a 'bossy arrogant'...wow.

anyway, there's the facts.

1) So, I ran off?
2) What criticism coudn't I handle?
3) Posting those examples was good. Telling people what to do -what you usually do- is not.
 

dan_w

Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
Please stop using this thread and these forums to grind whatever your axe is. You've made it clear that you're not interested in helping with the project - everyone respects that choice, but it doesn't help anyone for you to continue fighting with anyone you've decided is looking at you funny.

When did I say I'm "not interested in helping with the project"? I said I will leave IF you become project leader. So, first you equate disagreeing with you to "not being a fan", and now you equate rejecting YOU with rejecting "the project".

Great examples of leadership, LOAF. Keep up the good work.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I believe I asked you to stop trolling -- you've done an excellent job of disrupting an intelligent discussion of the project with your inane vendetta. We want to know your name no more.
 
There was to be no banning of members unless they were spammers and there was to be no deleting of posts unless for purely technical reasons. I had made this committment as moderator. By banning dan_w you've made me a liar. Please don't do that.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
You probably shouldn't have promised something that you had no control over, then. Banning users is the responsibility of forum administrators and not individual area moderators.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Since you're not an administrator, it should be pretty clear to everyone that you didn't ban dan_w.
 

criticalmass

Vice Admiral
It seemed like a pretty good start, but now we're back to arguing who's the boss.

Maybe the project should agree on some basics.

Spirit, your approach on free speech is really commendable (and btw I really like how you haven't blown up yet even once - you handle every conflict with grace and a sense of humor!). But even if Loaf is now integrated as consultant, he still has a second role as forum admin; and the forum has general rules.

If someone starts bullshitting here, you get slapped over the head (having experienced that myself) - and nobody likes that; but it actually helps. Long debates create nothing but written and documented evidence of disharmony, and can be quoted every time an argument comes up again. Getting the brrom and bucket gives you time to think about your actions - and if you understand what was wrong, you can always apologize and get reinstated. This may look harsh in the eyes of many, but this board doesn't have military insignia all over it for nothing.

So let's get around to work again. Nobody will call you a liar, Spirit - you've had a great idea about how to work together, and some people just didn't act up to it.
 

criticalmass

Vice Admiral
Bandit LOAF said:
We were working on a few paragraphs of mission statement earlier...

I like that document a lot - in my eyes, it's a scope chapter you can build on, create dependencies, deliverables and restraints.

As I've hinted at before, project management is my day job (and yeah, I've got too much on my hands to offer my self as nth candidate) - so I'm going to fulfill my threat and give you some examples.

As said before, the desingn doc you've put together is something like the scope or objectives chapter in a professional project charter. Just to give you an impression, the table of contents of such a thing looks like this:
1. INTRODUCTION
1.1 PROBLEM/OPPORTUNITY
1.2 SUMMARY PROJECT RECOMMENDATIONS
2. SCOPE & OBJECTIVES
2.1 OBJECTIVES
2.2 PROJECT DEPENDENCIES
2.3 PRELIMINARY PROJECT CONTEXT
2.4 PRELIMINARY PROJECT PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
3. PROJECT ORGANIZATION
3.1 STAKEHOLDER LIST
3.2 ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
3.3 PROJECT STRUCTURE
4. PROJECT APPROACH
4.1 CONTROLS STRATEGY
4.2 CONSTRAINTS AND ASSUMPTIONS
4.3 PROVISIONAL DELIVERY STRATEGY
4.3.1 Recommended Delivery Option
4.3.1.1 Project strategy
4.3.1.2 Development strategy
4.3.1.3 Validation Evaluation Result
4.3.2 Proposed Technology Infrastructure
4.4 IMPACT & RISK ASSESSMENT
5. PRELIMINARY PROJECT PLAN
6. GLOSSARY

I don't say you should really work out one of those, but it gives some structure on how to organize a project of that size.
 

criticalmass

Vice Admiral
And the last post in the quick PM session:

Once we have defined what to do and how to do it, a plan on how to coordinate things will help a lot. I liked Penta2's idas on the subject, so I'll post the table of contents of a standard project planning document:
1. PROJECT OVERVIEW
1.1 BUSINESS OBJECTIVES
1.2 PROJECT OBJECTIVES
2. DETAILED SCOPE STATEMENT
3. DETAILED PROJECT DELIVERABLES
4. PROJECT SCHEDULE
5. SUBSIDIARY PLANS
5.1 STAFFING MANAGEMENT PLAN
5.2 COMMUNICATION PLAN
5.3 RISK RESPONSE PLAN
5.4 CHANGE CONTROL PLAN
5.5 PROJECT QUALITY PLAN
Again, just for "inspirational purposes". Some quick sentences are enough for each section, about what to do, when to do it, and who is responsible. On first glance it may seem superfluous, but as time & project progesses, it is good to have something like that - when discussions come up again, you'll have something to base your decisions or changes in the plan on.
 
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