Is CIC the only place where Arena gets positive feedback?

DaBrain

Spaceman
WC1, WC2, and Privateer didn't have FMV, and they were all incredible games - thus showing that the heart and soul of Wing Commander has never truly been about FMV. Also, Freelancer lacked FMV, and I found that to be a great game, even if I didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the WC series. I think a WC sequel that's handles cut scenes the same way that Freelancer did could work very well, and on a much cheaper budget than you'd need with FMV.

True, WC1 and 2 didn't have FMVs. It was a different kind of experience.

Honestly? I was really impressed by FMV back in 1994. But, since then, I've just come to look at it as a gimmick. Nice to have, but hardly the only way to tell a story. And, as much as I love WC III and WC IV, there are things in both games that I regret about FMV - not the least being the fact that I always felt that Blair looked "cooler" in the first two games. Whenever I read the WCIII and IV novelizations, I always imagine WCI and II Blair, not Mark Hamil. :p

They were an elemental part in the last WC parts. And thsose game wouldn't have worked without them. It's a very unique way of storytelling. Ok, it has certain limitations and it's expensive, but it also gives you a lot of opportunities.

I agree with you on the Mark Hamil thing. He did a good job, but I always wondered why they took him to play Blair...
Looking back from now... I wouldn't change it though. ;)

Wing Commander has NEVER been dead.

Dead in a commercial way. I'm supporting a fan project myself.

I've been visiting this site regularly since July, and I visited sporadically (and lurked in the forums) for years prior to that. The Wing Commander community has ALWAYS been active via forums, fan fiction, fan projects, and the like. That helped keep the franchise alive, and is probably why EA is willing to revisit it now.

Well actually that's true for a lot of communities. And a lot of them won't see any tiltle of the franchise they want though.
I'm not saying that there'll never be another Wing Commander title and keeping up a community will probably have a postive effect on it, but it's not a guarantee.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I agree with you on the Mark Hamil thing. He did a good job, but I always wondered why they took him to play Blair...

Hamill was originally hired to play Maniac. It was only when Roberts bumped into Tom Wilson (wasn't it in a store, when one of them was buying cold medicine?) that Hamill was turned into Blair.
 

Dougly

Spaceman
They were an elemental part in the last WC parts. And thsose game wouldn't have worked without them.

I couldn't disagree more.

Chris Roberts - and Origin - managed to put together really great games that "worked" without FMV when they made the first few WC games. WC3, 4, and Prophecy would have been different had they decided not to go with FMV. But, I have no doubt in my mind that they would have made the games "work."

Indeed, part of me has always wondered what the later WC games would have been like had the game designers not gone the FMV route. I'm fine with all of the WC games the way they were eventually made. But, part of me always has to wonder...

It's a very unique way of storytelling.

It WAS a unique way of storytelling. Now it just has a "been there, done that" feel to it.

As I said before, FMV is nice to have. But, it's hardly a necessity. Especially when there are much cheaper - and just as effective - ways to tell a story.

Indeed, the new C&C game aside, very few games nowadays use FMV. I guess maybe FMV could re-appear, but I tend towards thinking that it was just a kind of "fad" back in the 1990s. One that has now run its course as people have realized that you don't need to dish out big bucks for FMV actors in order to tell a compelling, engrossing story. The future of computer game storytelling lies elsewhere.

Back when Privateer 3 was in the works, the plan was to use animation, not FMV, with that title. Having looked at the P3 script, there is, quite frankly, no doubt in my mind that it would have been a fantastic game, despite its lack of FMV.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
Wing commander always told a story that could end in several ways.

In the first two games, it was just a matter of adjusting the dialogue, FMV filming requires another scene to film, for each branch , and a MUCH bigger budget.

as where profits are considerations, they would likely put the face of a soccer player on the next FIFA, then getting a bunch of actors for a dialogue. The face works, the actors only for certain people.

the few people who make videoclips or movies from the games, are not the target audience EA can make money off.
 

Bobboau

Spaceman
I don't see why the FMV bit is taking such a huge chunk of this... talk, we have decent enough graphics these days to complete the story telling aspect they provided, if they are to be needed at all. as others have said they are sort of a "nice to have" feature, more like a requirement if you get a big budget, but I wouldn't expect any 'space ships flying around and blowing up other space ships' games to get a budget like that these days at all.

what I think would be more of an issue would be the who 2D 'thing' I haven't played the game obviously, but that one thing alone is enough to make me viscerally angry and I'm not even a WC fan (someone mentioned this game elsewere), I find it hard to understand how you all can be taking this so cheerfully, I mean this is the sort of thing I would have expected to hear if Derek Smart got ahold of it. how can you consider this to be a proper WC game if it is a 2d shooter? now, I'm not saying 2d shooters are bad, quite the contrary I think they are a great fun type of game play, and I could see myself honestly writing page after page in a review about how good some 2d shooters are, but that doesn't mean it's a proper fit for all situations. it's not the sort of thing that can pull you in and be able to tell you a story, I don't see how you can consider this to be more WCish than the movie.

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.

or maybe I am just totally misjudging the reaction here, I can see someone liking this as a light hearted, non-serious WC 'themed' game, is that what the feeling here is?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I find it hard to understand how you all can be taking this so cheerfully, I mean this is the sort of thing I would have expected to hear if Derek Smart got ahold of it.

I'm not sure what that means. Derek Smart is a (self made) internet celebrity, yes... but if there's one thing the man can do, it's ship games. Any neglected franchise should be so lucky. Why are BC3K fans still getting new releases and addons and attention to their universe over a decade after that stopped being profitable? Because he's dedicated to his charge.

how can you consider this to be a proper WC game if it is a 2d shooter? now, I'm not saying 2d shooters are bad, quite the contrary I think they are a great fun type of game play, and I could see myself honestly writing page after page in a review about how good some 2d shooters are, but that doesn't mean it's a proper fit for all situations.

Isn't that an odd line to take? It's almost literally the drawn in the sand. What makes something 'Wing Commander'? I can guarantee you, any single point you choose will eliminate some classic game. An engrossing story? Academy, Armada. 3D graphics? Wing Commander 1, 2, Privateer. Cinematics? Academy, Armada, Secret Ops. In-flight immersion? Wing Commander IV. Even simply being 'named' Wing Commander? Privateer 2.

Remember that we are hardcore Wing Commander fans. We don't define the experience in any narrow terms. We are very interested in expanding our universe. The Wing Commander novels and tech guides and TV show and the movie and the card game are all part of what we like about the series. The develoers in charge of Arena have clearly made sure that that aspect of the game *especially* appeals to us, which is something they certainly didn't have to do.

Moreover, you seem ill-informed. "2D shooter" does not describe this game in the least. That conjures up images of Galaga and Tyrian... which Arena is not. Ships in Arena act like they do in the classic games, with shields and armor and devices and weapons selection and so forth. A dogfight in Arena is like a dogfight in Armada.

it's not the sort of thing that can pull you in and be able to tell you a story, I don't see how you can consider this to be more WCish than the movie.

The... *Wing Commander* movie? I don't see anyone saying anything like that here.

or maybe I am just totally misjudging the reaction here, I can see someone liking this as a light hearted, non-serious WC 'themed' game, is that what the feeling here is?

You should read through some of these threads. There are many reasons to be interested in Arena:

* The gameplay. Wing Commander fans have begged for a multiplayer experience... and here it is! Arena offers us the classic Wing Commander combat online just like we've always wanted.

* Attention to detail. The screenshots and information published so far make it very clear that the developers are interested in the Wing Commander continuity in the same way we are. From bringing back classic ships (almost exclusively) to working in everything from the original game to the movie, Arena is something of a love letter.

* It's pushing the limit again. The original Wing Commander redefined the PC gaming experience and turned it from a hobbyists interest into a mainstream form of media. Wing Commander Arena is doing the same thing with Live Arcade -- it is far and away more impressive than anything XBLA has had available before.

* What it means for the future. Arena is EA's return to Wing Commander, just like First Decade was their return to Command and Conquer. I can say with absolute certainty that the next step is a full scale Wing production.

Most of all, who is it hurting? If it's the only thing we ever see again (and it won't be), how is that *worse* than no Wing Commander games at all? We're a smart community, we don't buy into that automatic internet cynicism crap. A month ago we lived with no solid hope at all... and now the future is bright. Of course we're happy.
 

Drakon

Spaceman
You went gravedigging to say that? Personally, I'm not at all interested in playing Arena, but at least I don't run around flaming its advocates and trying to trash it. Like LOAF said, it expands the WC universe and for us fans who haven't had anything new to look at in a long time a new game of any kind is better than none. I'm a fan just for getting to see that new manual alone. If you hate the game explain why and debate points - if you had "more than half a brain" as you put it, you would have found a constructive way to express your view.

EDIT: Yes, the post does seem to have vanished. My appologies for being the one left bumping the old thread. xP
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
(There was a new-account trolling post here before, that's what Drakon is replying to. Someone zapped it.)
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
What is a Wing Commander game for you?

Wing Commander is my space fighter blowing up other space fighters. From the first game to the last game, it has always been that for me. I may not have liked the story or any of that stuff in Prophecy or SO, but by golly I loved playing the games, and I still play all of them when the mood hits me right, no exception.

The only thing that upsets me is it's a console release. I'll just have to pray that it sells so well that EA goes the next step and makes that next PC/multiplatform game.
 

Naféasonto

Swabbie
Banned
True, WC1 and 2 didn't have FMVs. It was a different kind of experience.



They were an elemental part in the last WC parts. And thsose game wouldn't have worked without them. It's a very unique way of storytelling. Ok, it has certain limitations and it's expensive, but it also gives you a lot of opportunities.

I agree with you on the Mark Hamil thing. He did a good job, but I always wondered why they took him to play Blair...
Looking back from now... I wouldn't change it though. ;)



Dead in a commercial way. I'm supporting a fan project myself.



Well actually that's true for a lot of communities. And a lot of them won't see any tiltle of the franchise they want though.
I'm not saying that there'll never be another Wing Commander title and keeping up a community will probably have a postive effect on it, but it's not a guarantee.


DaBrain give up, this is like trying to debate evolution and creation. Your opinion doesn't count. People on this site defend Wing Commander into death, no matter how bad or good the game was.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
DaBrain give up, this is like trying to debate evolution and creation. Your opinion doesn't count. People on this site defend Wing Commander into death, no matter how bad or good the game was.

That doesn't make sense in the least. In either case, a well informed opinion does count. Wing Commander games have received criticisms here before, and there's nothing new about that. The point here is that the claims made against Arena are smiply incorrect.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
DaBrain give up, this is like trying to debate evolution and creation. Your opinion doesn't count. People on this site defend Wing Commander into death, no matter how bad or good the game was.

I think you're the ones who are not respecting opinions here... What, you like Arena?! You must be a crazy fanatic! How dare you supress us!

You all deceided to hate Arena after the first screenshots.

Every single WC game since WC2 has redefined what Wing Commander is about... WC3 made you play as Blair instead of our beloved Bluhair, killed off everyones favorite carrier and made Tolwyn a complete jerk while changing gameplay as well, taking away much of the the WW2 in space feel... WC4 had you fight humans and gave you moral choises as well as turning Tolwyn into an evil space nazi and removed cockpits alltogether, and WC5/SO was an eternal guantlet of space insects, not to mention all the new stuff in Armada and Privateer. And we all loved those.

Then Arena comes along and uses old familiar ships and has a wonderful manual full of nice info and references to old games and lets play against other WC fans... And you all deceide to hate it.

Besides, I don't get what you are complaining about... It has cloaking devices!
 

Kilrathikiller

Rear Admiral
Not to argue with you Tolwyn was always a jerk. I remember when I first saw him in WC 2 I was like who is this asshole telling me its my fault the tiger's claw was destroyed. I don't remember any of us saying that we hated the game from the start, I could be wrong but I've been looking forward to this game for a long time. I'm a bit younger then most of you and my friends never really got to experience wing commander the way I did. With Wing Commander Arena its an opportunity for me and my friends to enjoy WC together. I m a little mad but that its not on PC but this is a good step for the series and I'm enjoying the game. I could go on with how I enjoy it. Also you see that Star on my Gamertag. You all should have that. I find it verrry pretty and it good to see it again, thats just my opinion.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Not to argue with you Tolwyn was always a jerk. I remember when I first saw him in WC 2 I was like who is this asshole telling me its my fault the tiger's claw was destroyed.

Well, he thought destruction of the Tiger's Claw really was Blairs fault. After Blair had been proved innocent, Tolwyn's entire attitude changed (WC2's Addons), and in the novels he's a great guy... He even takes the Concordia into Kilrathi space to save the Tarawa after the battle of Vukar Tag. :)
 

Falcon988

Commodore
This is off topic, but technically Blair was actually guilty of negligence. According to the WC2 manual he sighted the stealths and instead of reporting them went looking for 'em on his own without warning the Claw. So he did indeed screw up, it's just that Tolkien blamed him for negligence for the wrong reason and didn't believe the stealth story anyway.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
This is off topic, but technically Blair was actually guilty of negligence. According to the WC2 manual he sighted the stealths and instead of reporting them went looking for 'em on his own without warning the Claw. So he did indeed screw up, it's just that Tolkien blamed him for negligence for the wrong reason and didn't believe the stealth story anyway.
Tolkien didn't believe the stealth story? Come on, what about all that stuff with The Ring? If anybody would believe Blair, surely it would be Tolkien :).
 
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