Is CIC the only place where Arena gets positive feedback?

[DaBrain]

Looking through the web, I've read a lot of comments to WC Arena, and they where mostly negative.
I'm wondering why Arena gets this much attention here.

In my personal view Arena is just a low-budget Asteriods clone with the Wing Commander title attached to it. It might be fun for a while, but I don't see any connection to the Wing Commander franchise.

Do you guys know more than I do?

For me Wing Commander has always been an epic game series, that relied on expensive movie scenes and rather nice story line with some awesome twists.
Without that... it's not Wing Commander for me.

We've all waited very long for a new Wing Commander title..., but I don't think they waiting is over yet...

Anyway, if there are any Wing Commander elements in the game please tell me.
So far I only know that there are some WC ships and the WC logo on the menu screen.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

This is a problem with you and the internet, not with the CIC. Your read on the situation is absolutely wrong. The *feedback* is universally positive: everyone who has played Arena has given it a glowing review. Check out the previews at Gamespot, IGN, TEam Xbox and ShackNews.

You talk about 'your opinion'. The problem with the internet today is that nobody ever bites back properly when people have uninformed opinions. Look at any IMDb page for an upcoming movie or any set of Amazon reviews for an album coming out in a year. "300" is GOING TO SUCK SO HARD I WILL NOT SEE IT and Avril Lavigne's upcoming CD IS THE WORST ALBUM EVER DON'T WASTE UR MONEY. For some reason we decided to stop complaining about this... but intelligent people don't need to pay it any mind, either. The right to speak is in no way a right to have a valid opinion. We all have the same collected experience regarding how good Arena will be: four reviews saying it's a great game. How can someone take only that and still complain?

As for whether we're the only community taking the third hand news 'positively'... we are a very intelligent group of people, but we're certainly not the totality here: anyone who plays XBLA is *amazed* by this game. One thing the angry young men without Gamertags in their profiles don't understand is what XBLA *is*. I can go on there and buy Galaga or Feeding Frenzy or Ms. Pac Man... and in a few months, a giant 3D multiplayer Wing Commander game? Wowee. Anyone who loves XBLA understands that this is a big deal.

All that said, yes, the dedication to the Wing Commander unierse should have been obvious from the first pictures... with tiny Broadswords, Rapiers, Dralthi and the like. That should only have become more apparent in the last two days of news -- did you see the article where it mentioned that they got allt he fighter designations right? Or the one where it turns out this will have a setting and a Star Wars style intro scroll that explains it? Did you see when Perry Naval Station showed up? Did you read my account of a sixteen player capship battle, and how it forces you into Wing Commander style immersion?

 

[Death]

Looking through the web, I've read a lot of comments to WC Arena, and they where mostly negative.
I'm wondering why Arena gets this much attention here.

Gamespot, IGN, Team Xbox, and Shacknews have previewed it, all of the previews being pretty positive ones. Seeing as they actually had copies to play with, unlike random interneters going on about how Arena is the death of WC, paranoid delusions of grandeur about how EA is out to get them and/or kill WC, and assorted "this sucks because it's not what I want!" comments (as if a tiny, vocal minority fringe [numbering maybe a thousand or so, if that; certainly not more than 10,000] of a relatively small gaming niche were somehow the only thing that mattered to a company who ideally looks for millions of customers to buy their products) from folks who only have a few screen shots and movies to go by, I think I know where I'm going to put more weight.

Hint: It ain't the interneters.

 

[DaBrain]

Well what I've read where comments from Wing Commander fans. And in the end those are the ones that really matter, cause they are supposed to pay for it.

Well, I took a good look at some reviews anyway. And they didn't write about the problems Wing Commander fans would have with it. The (p)reviews don't really seem to be critic at all. Which is pretty weird to say the least. Even top rated games have a lot of negative aspects, which are pointed out by reviews.

So... I'd rather like to ignore them.

The videos and the screenshots are supposed to give you an overview over the game. And they didn't impress me at all.

The graphics might be ok for a low-budget arcade game, but not for a Wing Commander game. The game modes are even less on Wing Commander niveau.

Just ask yourself:
What is a Wing Commander game for you?

I just don't see why anybody could go crazy about a little arcade game, which could of course be nice, but doesn't really have anything to do with Wing Commander.

Unless there are some hardcore arcade space sim fans out there. Although I doubt they'd care about how the game is called...

@Bandit LOAF
Of course nobody knows anything exactly before they've played the game, but as much as sombody might say 'wow' after seeing some third hand media about it, I can say 'bah'.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Well, I am with no false modesty a pretty big Wing Commander fan... and I've played the game, and I say wow. Your post is so silly, though -- you don't like that the *actual* news is positive, so you've decided to ignore it in favor of what people who have no basis for their claims are saying? You actually thought this process through and decided to admit it?

 

[LeHah]

Just ask yourself: What is a Wing Commander game for you?

Wing Commander is many things. Books, a cartoon series, a movie, strategy guides, a collectable card game, several CDs... and all those things are quality.

The series has taken many, many forms over the years and Arena is just another one. Considering all the previous quality involved in Wing Commander, why would Arena be any different after all this time?

 

[DaBrain]

Your post is so silly, though

... it's my opinion. I don't think that's something anybody should call silly.

-- you don't like that the *actual* news is positive, so you've decided to ignore it

I ignore it, because it doesn't really seem to deal with the game.
If it was all negative, I'd find that suspicious too.

There are more colors between black and white.

@LeHah
Well, I ment the 'strenghts' of Wing Commander. Parts of the games, that really made them Wing Commander games.

Even Secret Ops was a bit less Wing Commander-ish, because of the missing cutscenes.
I still liked it a lot cause it still had the WC gameplay.

Armada doesn't have either of those.

 

[ZFGokuSSJ1]

Your name is pretty deceiving, DaBrain.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

An opinion and a dollar can get you a Snickers.

Everyone thinks an opinion is somehow holy. It isn't -- you're entitled to your opinion... and that's *all*. No one needs to respect it, and with a thought process like yours, no one ever will.

 

[DaBrain]

Aside from my opinion, I've also posted some arguments, which should be more the center of the discussion, than my oppinion.

In the end... you're defending your oppinion here too and the text in the reviews is the oppinion of the reviewer.

But we all have reasons for our oppinions. I'm trying to explain my reasons here. And I'm trying to understand your reasons.

 

[Edfilho]

You didn't post any arguments... Loaf did.

All you did was bitch and moan.

 

[gwydion]

It seems some people here have a low tolerance for other opinions.

Is it wrong for people to want Wing Commander revived in the way it was previously? As a first person 3d space shooter? No.

It seems that some people would be just as excited if the game had been "Wing Commander: Tic Tac Toe" and the two teams were Confed and Kilrathi and the Os were replaced with Arrows and the Xs replaced with Dralthis.

 

[LeHah]

Well, I ment the 'strenghts' of Wing Commander. Parts of the games, that really made them Wing Commander games.

Because Rapiers and Kilrathi Capital Ships are not hallmarks of the series, right?

Seriously though, you said later in your post that "...Secret Ops was a bit less Wing Commander-ish, because of the missing cutscenes." I'm not sure if you're refering to the FMV scenes or the "talking heads" version - but in either case, this is only one component of a much larger whole. That is to say many, many other games have cutscenes and they're neither Wing Commander nor even of good quality. It's not a defining quality of this classic gaming series in as much as escorting a transport and being attacked by Krants.

As for Armada, some of my best memories of WC comes from playing that game. The strategy mode was way ahead of it's time and I spent many, many hours trying to beat the game on it's hardest difficulty.

(As for your "opinion" arguement - You would know that "in my opinion" is not a term that bulletproofs all of your statement from attack, nor does it increase the power of your argument. Saying you have an opinion on the internet is like pointing at the sky and telling me it's blue, as if we didn't know already.)

 

[Death]

Actually, gwydon, there's plenty of tolerance for other opinions. Around here, we just expect them to be backed up by at least semi-decent reasoning, not just variations on "I don't like it because it's not what I want" (which all in all is a pretty selfish thing to say).

Also, you seem to be making the mistake of the false dilemma fallacy, assuming that one can either be excited by Arena or want a full plot storyline deal like previous "main" WC games, but not both. Would I love a new WC game that has a formal plot, cutscenes, and whatnot? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean I can't like Arena as well.

And, besides, that Arena is coming out certainly doesn't mean that there won't ever be a new WC game with a plot and such. At this point, EA knows that WC is a known IP, but the people who do the actual budgets and stuff at EA don't have any solid numbers about how well that known IP translates into income. Arena's selling well could provide the data, sufficiently so for them to be able to justify the expense of a plotted WC game.

 

[DaBrain]

You didn't post any arguments

Right...

All you did was bitch and moan.

Now... that must be your argumenting style.

Because Rapiers and Kilrathi Capital Ships are not hallmarks of the series, right?

Well of course they're a part of it too. Just like the FMVs.
But those alone aren't enough to make it a Wing Commander game.

(As for your "opinion" arguement - You would know that "in my opinion" is not a term that bulletproofs all of your statement from attack, nor does it increase the power of your argument. Saying you have an opinion on the internet is like pointing at the sky and telling me it's blue, as if we didn't know already.)

I was refering to Bandit LOAF's statement, that my opinion was stupid.
People can be stupid. Opinions can not.

@gwydion
You're right. And actually I didn't want to talk about why I don't like Arena, but why it's getting bashed a lot on other boards and not here.

There where actually a lot of people interested before the facts about the game were known. Some people really hate it now... I guess they're just disappointed that it's not what they expected.

I don't know at which point of development they decided to call it Wing Commander, but maybe they should have better used the Asteroids license for the title.

@Death
I think I've very well explain what I don't like about it and why I don't like. I don't want to repeat myself.

And I also never said it's a bad game. It's not Wing Commander, but it could still be a nice arcade game.


Imho if you use one of the big IPs, you'll have to keep up with it.
I.e. the first Final Fantasy movie was a way bigger project than Arena. And it still wasn't able to keep up with the fans hopes for it.
The movie itself wasn't bad though (again my opinion), it just wasn't enough.
Well, the second movie finally deserved the "Final Fantasy" title.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I was refering to Bandit LOAF's statement, that my oppinion was stupid.
People can be stupid. Oppinions can not.

As I just got done explaining in #WingNut, the opinion is the single element of a person which *should* be attacked. Unlike any other trait, they're something you choose to have -- and they can be horribly wrong. My opinion is that fish can breathe oil! My opinion is that housecats should be crushed by pyramids! My opinion is that Star Wars is real! Those are bad, bad opinions -- and they should certainly be called stupid.

I don't know at which point of development they decieded to call it Wing Commander, but maybe they should have better used the Asteroids license for the title.

Cut this out -- it has been a Wing Commander game since day one.

 

[DaBrain]

As I just got done explaining in #WingNut, the opinion is the single element of a person which *should* be attacked. Unlike any other trait, they're something you choose to have -- and they can be horribly wrong. My opinion is that fish can breathe oil! My opinion is that housecats should be crushed by pyramids! My opinion is that Star Wars is real! Those are bad, bad opinions -- and they should certainly be called stupid.

I'd rather say the person with an opinion like that is stupid.
Ah... hen and egg thing I guess.

Cut this out -- it has been a Wing Commander game since day one.

Well, this is interesting. Do you know that for sure?

 

[gwydion]

DaBrain, dont say why you dont like Arena... as many people have said, we haven't played it yet.
We can say we wish the announcement had been for a fully fledged sequel or prequel or another shot at a Privateer Online, but bottom line for me is that Wing Commander is back, so that to me can only be a good thing. It's definitely a massive step up from where the WC series was a few weeks ago.
It's coming out and I want it to be successful. I wont be buying an XBox 360 just so I can play it, but if I had one you can be sure it'd be on my list of things to get. Regardless of whether the game is my style or not (which I will stand by my previous opinion that I think it's not), I support Wing Commander and want to see the series continue...

I'd also like to clear up my tic tac toe statement - i dont think the game was being made then a decision was made to put the Wing Commander title in it just to beef up sales. There's obviously a lot of WC elements in the game and a heap of thought gone into it to make it a Wing Commander arcade game. My point was that just because Wing Commander is in the title of the game, it doesn't mean everyone's going to love it. I love the announcement that there's a new WC game, but looking at the style it wont be something that I will rank up there with WC3 and WC4. It could be the best multiplayer shooter out there, but I'm really hanging for a new WC story

PS I wish people would just cut out the personal abuse. If someone has a different opinion, argue the points, dont tell them they're retarded for liking the game / disliking the game. There are a LOT of positive things to come out of this for every Wing Commander fan, whether they like the new game or not. These are exciting times.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Well, this is interesting. Do you know that for sure?

Yes, I do. EA has been soliciting the opinion of a few WC fans for a little while. Not on how to design the game, but in how to make sure things in it 'work' within the boundries of WC continuity -- does this kind of missile work this way, what ships should appear, when should the game take place, what kind of background should we provide... that kind of material. It was above and beyond the call of duty for them, and I still don't understand why they bothered.

Arena isn't a giant FMV game, and yes, we all wish it were... but they put a lot in to it, and it's going to show in the finished product.

 

[DaBrain]

DaBrain, dont say why you dont like Arena...

I never said, or ment I didn't like it. I was just talking about things I don't like about it. (As much as we know about it atm.)
Putting the Wing Commander title aside, it might very well be a nice game.

I've played Subspace a bit before and it was fun little game. And I just remembered there is a WC ship pack for it.
https://www.wcnews.com/fanprojects/wczone

That might be fun for people that are waiting for Arena.