Holding the line questions

D

David Wade

2nd Lieutenant
Hey all Merry Christmas was wondering if anyone remembers the flight wing make up for the Arcadia carriers the UBW uses in htl?
 
Hey all new question am trying to build a force and was wondering what the standard air wing was for UBW and Confed Carriers
 
First question - I had to fudge a bit when I converted the stats for the Arcadia-class for WCRPG, IIRC, because the designer simply said "x light fighters, x medium fighters", etc. without specifying classes. Presumably that was done to not tie the ship class down to a specific type of fighter. What I've got for WCRPG can be used as a standard type, but it is by no means a definitive answer.

Second question - probably answered it in the first: there wasn't a "standard air wing" per se, and the question is vague at best. The Aces had several different classes of carriers throughout its history - and unless I'm very much mistaken carriers were the kind of ships that its members created most often. If you want something generic to work with, I'd say 1-2 squadrons of point-defense/reconnaisance craft, 1-2 squadrons of multi-purpose craft, and 1-2 squadrons of strike craft, with a squadron ranging from 12-18 craft for Terrans and between 8-16 for Kilrathi, dependent upon the size of the carrier in question.
 
capi3101 said:
First question - I had to fudge a bit when I converted the stats for the Arcadia-class for WCRPG, IIRC, because the designer simply said "x light fighters, x medium fighters", etc. without specifying classes. Presumably that was done to not tie the ship class down to a specific type of fighter. What I've got for WCRPG can be used as a standard type, but it is by no means a definitive answer.

Second question - probably answered it in the first: there wasn't a "standard air wing" per se, and the question is vague at best. The Aces had several different classes of carriers throughout its history - and unless I'm very much mistaken carriers were the kind of ships that its members created most often. If you want something generic to work with, I'd say 1-2 squadrons of point-defense/reconnaisance craft, 1-2 squadrons of multi-purpose craft, and 1-2 squadrons of strike craft, with a squadron ranging from 12-18 craft for Terrans and between 8-16 for Kilrathi, dependent upon the size of the carrier in question.
Click to expand...
Ok Looking at it I was trying to figure out a Generic CVW for Concordia Class Carriers what I came up with using the Last organization out of the WCIV novel of sixteen ships per squadron and using what I know of modern Carrier Air Wings I was figuring 16 Piranhas, 32 Tigersharks, 16 Wasps, 16 Panthers, and 16 Shrikes for a general air wing for Confed. That would give them a flexible force to answer multiple Missions. Now that is 96 birds there they with Modern carriers they would have those ships plus support vessels in this case I was thinking 6 SWACs, 6 Condor ( 2 SAR, 4 Tanker), 2 Hercules LC, and 8 Phoenix Shuttles for a total of 118 ships aboard a Standard Wing. Obviously if Confed considered the Concordias to be obsolete they wouldn't put the heavy ships aboard. Those ships would end up and Jutland or Lexington Class ships. I have a few friends that serve on CVs and they were saying when you look at the Air wing they don't count support ships until they have all combat craft so the Air wing always ends up being around 120 Ships instead of the 96 Usually reported.
 
also was thinking 0n the UBW and came up with 18 Arrows, 18 Intruders, 18 Retaliators, 18 Dauntlesses, 18 Jaguars theres the Combat Craft equaling 90 Birds, then you get 24 Support ships with 12 Stalkers and 12 Shuttles. Again this composition gives a flexible answer to most situations any Escorting ships could mount another Squadron of Intruders or Jaguars. This is what I have been able to come up considering according to the HTL storyline the Lynx Recon was cancelled therefore the Union would have had to rely on older craft for this role. As the UBW relies on force multipliers instead of increased forces this was what I was able to generate What are your thoughts on these "Standard Air Wings"
 
Sounds reasonable. Only thing I'd check is to make sure the carrier in question has enough space for all those birds. Oughta, but it doesn't hurt to double-check.
 
shuttles just kill it cant have 12 of them now if I swap out the Arrows for Piranhas which could theoretically happen with the treaty then we can actually carry 18 Stalkers. Unfortunately had to lose half the shuttles which cuts down on command and control. If we add for SWACs Seahawks then we end up using a huge amount of space so we don't use them and we end up using 137642.64 Cubic meters of the Hangar which is a lot of space used up
 
New Air Wing (Standard Arcadia post HTL)
18 Piranha Scouts (Cloak equipped), 18 Intruder Medium Fighters, 18 Jaguar Heavy Fighters, 18 Retaliator Fighters ( MAS Hard points to allow up to 18 Missiles total), 18 Dauntless Bombers, 18 Stalker EW Craft and 6 SAR-13 Phoenix Shuttles
 
Airwing for the Concordias
16 Piranha Scouts, 32 Tigershark MultiMission Fighters, 16 Wasp Interceptors, 16 Panther Superiority Fighters, 16 Shrike Bombers, 4 Seahawk SWACs, 8 Condor Shuttles, and 8 Phoenix Shuttles, and 2 Hercules Landing Craft.
 
Yeah, the shuttles are pretty large as designed. I myself have had issues with the size of the Naktarg shuttle in Elegy lately (the stats for them have them larger than a Broadsword, and Broadswords don't fit into many ships their own selves). I had given some thought to a more general utility design that would, among other things, be smaller - in fact I think WCRPG needs more general types of vehicles in general and I've given thoughts about creating them over the years. Just haven't ever gotten around to it.
 
Well, if shuttles seem too big, that may be because people are trying to use them incorrectly. I see above proposals for a carrier wing that includes 4 SWACS and 8 Condors on an ordinary carrier. That's just plain ridiculous. How many of these things or these do you think would normally be present on the deck of a typical US aircraft carrier today? And it's not even just a matter of size. The United States, a superpower whose military spending eclipses the combined military spending of the next ten military powers, has a grand total of 32 E-3 Sentries. This is specialised equipment which simply is not produced in significant quantities today. Why would we assume that WC would be any different in this regard? Confed is obviously a far bigger beast than the US, and has need for many more ships in general, but that doesn't mean they're going to be putting four SWACSes on every carrier. And eight Condors on a carrier with 96 fighters borders on the idiotic - that's almost one Condor for every ten fighters onboard.

Even the Midway probably only has one or two SWACSes and Condors onboard. And the Cerberus? Let's face it, the only reason it's got a Condor onboard is because nobody wanted to modify something as trivial as a S&R cutscene for a low-budget project like Secret Ops. An ordinary carrier would probably have just a couple of the smaller, more universal and less sophisticated transport shuttles of the kind that we see in WC3 and WC4. And note that in most WC games, we see heavy fighters doubling as S&R craft, and even, in some rare cases, as fast personnel transports. That's a very big hint about the number of shuttles to be expected onboard a typical WC carrier: they're a rarity.

However, keep in mind also that shuttles, like other bigger craft, can almost certainly also dock externally with a carrier, or land in an internal docking bay which, at least in some cases, appears to be separate from the flight deck (e.g. WC movie).
 
To be fair, the SWACS is probably closer to a E-2 Hawkeye than a E3, which are designed for naval service and are more common. I think larger carriers in the US navy can embark up to five for combat situations (eg. Gulf War) Still I would think that you're probably looking at a max of 2 SWACS on most fleet carriers (Vesuvius), and possibly one additional on a Midway during peacetime owing to its multi-role nature.
 
The typical carrier air wing today includes 4 E-2s and up to 6 tankers. Now the break down for the Concordia carriers would be 4 swacs and 4 tankers and 4 SAR birds which is the usual on a carrier today they comprise the support squadron of the air wing I was using the Phoenix shuttles as c2 greyhound stand ins as they would be moving constantly among the battle group
 
Hey everyone just finished the htl story that's complete so far is there any word on when the rest of the chapters will up
 
Anyone else have any reservations on these air wings I am trying to build a "standard air wing " so that people new to the rpgs or games or even fan fiction would have a reference point to go on from. Does anyone have suggestions for Jutland or Lexington class air wings? One other question is would confed still use escort carriers for merchant marine traffic or for anti piracy operations?
 
I don't know anything about RPGs and the mechanics involved, just as someone who played a lot of WC 3, 4 and Prophecy my personal feeling about Wasp interceptor craft is that they're very specialized point-defence craft... on MY big carrier, I'd have less of them than say Piranhas or Tigersharks.

About the escort-carrier question: I'd say it really depends on how many space stations there are in the region and how far the maximum range of a standard Piranha- or Tigershark -patrol is. If their range is good enough to cover most of the traffic lines from their stationary bases, then escort carriers for merchant patrol will for economic reasons die out immediately.
 
But carrier air wings of today are still broken down by squadron not flights or sections. The ability to launch a squadron of dedicated interceptors whose main mission is bomber elimination is a big boon to carriers. Endurance wise mist fighters today and in the past try to keep patrol missions to about 3-5 hours in length in order to limit pilot fatigue so it would be a good guess it would be the same in the future. That alone would provide a reason for CVEs like the Wake class or mabye the Miles D'Arby class escort carriers.
 
After getting with Capi on some questions I had on the Arcadia Carriers.
The New Air Wing would consist of 18 Arrow Fighters for Recon, 18 Excalibur fighters for Space Superiority, 18 Retaliators for Space Superiority, 18 Jaguar Heavy Fighters for Multi mission, 18 Dauntless Super Heavy Bombers for AntiCapship duty. Support would be 2 Phoenix shuttles. In emergency situations she could carry an additional 36 Intruder medium Fighters, 12 Stalker EW Craft and 4 additional Shuttles for tanker, SAR, and SWACs duties.
 
would consider suggestions for squadrons aboard Wake Escort Carriers for the UBW and Miles D'Arby Class CVEs for Confed does anyone have suggestions for Airwings aboard these ships
 
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