What types of hand held weapons were available to the ground forces of the Terran-Kilrathi War? What was the type of weapon that Jazz used to murder Specialist McGuffin? It looked like a projectile weapon to me. What about those weapons that both Terran and Kilrathi marines seemed to use a lot in WC1 that disintegrated people in a single shot? Were those laser weapons of some sort on a high power setting? And what about the weapons that Vagabond and the Confed security team used in the battle on the comm station? Were they just another type of laser?
Hand held weapons
- Thread starter BlueClaw
- Start date
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
Confed uses both projectile and energy weapons, as do the Kilrathi. It seems that they use projectile weapons for shipboard operations.
I'd think it would be the oposite. I wouldn't want kinetics ricocheting on the inside of a ship until they hit something vital.
In the books it is mentioned the Marines used miniguns, and flechette launchers in their assaults on the Kitty supercarriers. I guess as long a the ricochets are on the furry end of the corridor it wouldn't matter.
I suppose the type of shell would also have to be considered. Hollow-point, or AP? But have any of you read about what flechettes do when they hit someone? Ewwwwwwww.
In the books it is mentioned the Marines used miniguns, and flechette launchers in their assaults on the Kitty supercarriers. I guess as long a the ricochets are on the furry end of the corridor it wouldn't matter.
I suppose the type of shell would also have to be considered. Hollow-point, or AP? But have any of you read about what flechettes do when they hit someone? Ewwwwwwww.
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
I think they use projectiles in ships because they don't want to puncture the hull....energy weapons would probably do that fairly easily....
The real references I can point out are WCATV, at Repleetah they were using energy weapons and in the WCM they used machine guns when boarding the kilrathi ship.
The real references I can point out are WCATV, at Repleetah they were using energy weapons and in the WCM they used machine guns when boarding the kilrathi ship.
Actually... If anything, it would be the other way around. The concensus on future tech weapons is that shipborne shielding against energy small arms would be fairly easy. Fairly thin amounts of material slipped into the hull of the ship should be able to keep most such attacks from breaking through (fighter-borne weapons, being much more powerful, don't have this problem). Add to that the fact that they're fairly accurate, and don't have a tendency to ricochet when they miss.
Projectiles, on the other hand, are a lot more unpredictable. Damage from an errant projectile depends on a number of items, such as distance between where the shot was fired and where it struck, the angle that it struck at, and just plain old Murphy. Projectiles can do funny things when they strike with enough force at the right spot (In WWI and WW2, it was possible to get a 'technical' kill on a tank by hitting it with a high caliber machine gun. The rounds from the gun would cause 'spalling', which is when the rivets inside the tank start bouncing around inside the hull at high speed, taking out the crew.).
Then there's the ricochet factor. If I fire a laser, I've got a pretty good idea of where the shot is going to end up. If I fire a projectile, it could conceivably ricochet and end up smashing the control panel behind me, or hitting the civilian off to one side, or detonating the high pressure gas cylinders over in the corner.
Unfortunately, that still doesn't change the fact that pilots on board the Concordia appear to have been issued slug throwers as their standard issued side arm. I suppose its true that a pilot wouldn't really be expected to use it on board ship, but then again, a pilot on board a space fighter probably wouldn't be expected to use it much at all (even if the pilot ejects, space isn't exactly a target rich environment for a hand gun).
), which is the same reason most pilots today still carry their sidearms into combat (incase of having to ditch).Ladiesman^
Spaceman
In 600 years, it's quite possible they made a minimal-ricochet bullet....Personally, if i'm sitting there on a starship ready to fight, i'd MUCH rather use a bullet that might dance around for a while rather than a high-powered laser weapon that would leave a nice hole exactly where I pointed it, exposing me to the vacuum of space....
The BW probably used laser weapons on the station in WCIV because laser weapons are probably actually less expensive to maintain. You don't need ammunition.
Although it does appear that laser weapons could also be used on a ship. In WCATV, the security guards are armed with some type of energy weapon. It probably doesn't matter that much, just if your going to use an energy weapon a ship you have to tone it down.
Bullets like that already exist and can be bought at any gun store, I can't remember their name. The slug is basically a tightly packed powder that can remain solid when hitting a soft target but breaks up when it hits a hard target, like a wall.
A laser seems like it would be way more complex and difficult to maintain than a gun.
A laser seems like it would be way more complex and difficult to maintain than a gun.
TC
SubCrid
Or you could just use a softer metal for the shell... instead of piercing it flattens out.
We do know that the projectile weapons used inside ships are specifically low velocity weapons to limit their piercing ability.
Both energy weapons and projectile weapons are used by the forces in Wing Commander. It isn't even because of inconsistancies, the specific choice of one or the other type of weapon is discussed in various books and the marines have switched between the weapons during operations to face changing needs.
We do know that the projectile weapons used inside ships are specifically low velocity weapons to limit their piercing ability.
Both energy weapons and projectile weapons are used by the forces in Wing Commander. It isn't even because of inconsistancies, the specific choice of one or the other type of weapon is discussed in various books and the marines have switched between the weapons during operations to face changing needs.
If a laser somehow hit a point that wasn't properly shielded against energy weapons, and if it somehow burned a hole clear through the hull of the ship (with most infantry weapons, however, that should take a little while - we're not talking about tissue paper, for example), then you're only dealing with a tiny hole. No fuss, no muss, and even if it wasn't creating a constant sucking sound, you'd still have a fairly good idea of where the hole was created, since it developed exactly where your gun was pointed. I would imagine most space suits have some minimal patching equipment to patch the suit in case of an emergency, and that equipment would probably also double as a sealent for holes created by infantry energy weapons. After all, we're talking about holes that will probably be about half an inch in diameter, at most.
But once again, we're talking about starship hulls, and infantry weapons. Starship hulls are designed to take laser fire from starfighters. Its not inconceivable to me that a starship hull could drain the energy from an infantry energy weapon without requiring much more than some interior clean up. Using the energy clip as an impromptu demolition charge might actually do more damage to the starship than the weapon itself.
I'll take that over the randomness of a projectile weapon.
But once again, we're talking about starship hulls, and infantry weapons. Starship hulls are designed to take laser fire from starfighters. Its not inconceivable to me that a starship hull could drain the energy from an infantry energy weapon without requiring much more than some interior clean up. Using the energy clip as an impromptu demolition charge might actually do more damage to the starship than the weapon itself.
I'll take that over the randomness of a projectile weapon.
Haesslich
Spaceman
In False Colors, we see the marines there using MPR-21 Marscorp Mag-Pulse rifles that fire slugs using the same technology that you use in mass drivers.. except that you can adjust the speed of the projectile, and the projectile is noted to do less damage within the tight confines of starship corridors versus the higher-powered laser rifles they used on the hangar deck against the Kilrathi marines who boarded. In that latter case, they did have a rather large hangar deck where they didn't have to worry about hitting anything important and also were shooting towards the mouth of the landing bay (and thus into space).
Of course, back in Fleet Action they're using neutron miniguns and mass driver flechette guns.
In the first situation, they weren't using space suits and wanted to keep the ship intact and functional (by not damaging equipment beyond repair) while storming the bridge.. so they kept the mag-pulse rifles. Lasers were used in a longer-range encounter where they wanted to cut through any armor quickly, and neutron miniguns and mass driver flechettes where they're going for a quick kill through armor with no concern as to the status of the ship afterwards.
Though it does seem to be canon that projectile weapons don't cause as much damage to a ship as the higher-power energy weapons do - thus leaving the equipment intact or at least less damaged than it'd be with its circuitry burnt away.
(Edit: Beyond that, ricochets aren't an issue if you're using softer slugs that'd flatten against the first hard target they hit.)
Of course, back in Fleet Action they're using neutron miniguns and mass driver flechette guns.
In the first situation, they weren't using space suits and wanted to keep the ship intact and functional (by not damaging equipment beyond repair) while storming the bridge.. so they kept the mag-pulse rifles. Lasers were used in a longer-range encounter where they wanted to cut through any armor quickly, and neutron miniguns and mass driver flechettes where they're going for a quick kill through armor with no concern as to the status of the ship afterwards.Though it does seem to be canon that projectile weapons don't cause as much damage to a ship as the higher-power energy weapons do - thus leaving the equipment intact or at least less damaged than it'd be with its circuitry burnt away.
(Edit: Beyond that, ricochets aren't an issue if you're using softer slugs that'd flatten against the first hard target they hit.)
Shaggy
Vice Admiral
Wow this got rather complicated quickly.
You don't need a frangible round to avoid puncturing a hull. Most firearms have subsonic rounds available. Also the amount of metal jacket on a round will effect it's ricochet ability.
For example, one plan out there for the use of Air Marshals, basically security guards on planes, calls for subsonic rounds with no metal jacket on the round. The combination of low speed and no jacket creates a round less likely to puncture the body of an airliner. If the bullet hits something hard at full force it has a better chance of splattering then ricocheting, this is dependnat on distance, material density, and a bunch of other technical bits to lengthy to list here. Since the lead is so soft the bullet will deform before it has a chance to bounce. The deformation will effect any bounce trajectory as well as the energy pushing the projectile.
Now the WC bit:
In the movie they used rail guns. The actual composition of the rounds is not known, though usually an aluminum spike is used. You also have nice thick metal walls. So the guns in WCM would create a lot of ricochets. However, movie gunfighting does not always take real world physics into account.
In the game series they would most likely use energy weapons for boarding operations because of the short burst time. The guns used in WC4 were most likely laser systems. The firing of a single laser bolt would not be enough to burn through a metal bulkhead. Once the bolt hits something the photons scatter and the heat will scorch the impact point, or leave a hole as well depending on what you're shooting at.
The problem here is that you have four elements adding to the tech of WC. You have the games, the books, WCA, and the movie. The games have never really done much for explaining weapons, whereas the books and movie have done quite a bit more. I haven't had a chance to watch WCA very much so I can't speak from experience on that. Since there is no true and final source of info on the weapons, except for WCM, then there will probably be no definitive answer to this question.
So my advice, make the smeg up!
You don't need a frangible round to avoid puncturing a hull. Most firearms have subsonic rounds available. Also the amount of metal jacket on a round will effect it's ricochet ability.
For example, one plan out there for the use of Air Marshals, basically security guards on planes, calls for subsonic rounds with no metal jacket on the round. The combination of low speed and no jacket creates a round less likely to puncture the body of an airliner. If the bullet hits something hard at full force it has a better chance of splattering then ricocheting, this is dependnat on distance, material density, and a bunch of other technical bits to lengthy to list here. Since the lead is so soft the bullet will deform before it has a chance to bounce. The deformation will effect any bounce trajectory as well as the energy pushing the projectile.
Now the WC bit:
In the movie they used rail guns. The actual composition of the rounds is not known, though usually an aluminum spike is used. You also have nice thick metal walls. So the guns in WCM would create a lot of ricochets. However, movie gunfighting does not always take real world physics into account.
In the game series they would most likely use energy weapons for boarding operations because of the short burst time. The guns used in WC4 were most likely laser systems. The firing of a single laser bolt would not be enough to burn through a metal bulkhead. Once the bolt hits something the photons scatter and the heat will scorch the impact point, or leave a hole as well depending on what you're shooting at.
The problem here is that you have four elements adding to the tech of WC. You have the games, the books, WCA, and the movie. The games have never really done much for explaining weapons, whereas the books and movie have done quite a bit more. I haven't had a chance to watch WCA very much so I can't speak from experience on that. Since there is no true and final source of info on the weapons, except for WCM, then there will probably be no definitive answer to this question.
So my advice, make the smeg up!
Ok, for the first time I'm going to cross universes, but it's on the topic. In the Babylon 5 Universe ship board forces use plasma based weapons, whic have little kinetic impact and take a looooong time to burn through a bulkhead. Ground based forces still use mass drive rounds for their longer range, greater penetration, and larger ammo capacity.
I bring this up, not to compare universes, or to impose the rules of one. onto the othe, but rather to point out how both ma be used by the same military force at the same time. Marines going in on a Kilrathi LZ would, in my estimation, probably have a few energy weapns, but mostly projectile weapons. For the Fleet Action example, I don't think they really gave a damn about ricochets and the like as it was essentally a suicide mission.
I bring this up, not to compare universes, or to impose the rules of one. onto the othe, but rather to point out how both ma be used by the same military force at the same time. Marines going in on a Kilrathi LZ would, in my estimation, probably have a few energy weapns, but mostly projectile weapons. For the Fleet Action example, I don't think they really gave a damn about ricochets and the like as it was essentally a suicide mission.
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
On the contrary, usually when we see them on the ground they're using exclusively energy weapons...