General Hardware Question: Motherboard and RAM

Wedge009

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
This isn't specific to Wing Commander, but I thought I might ask here to see if any fellow WingNuts have had similar experiences. I have just about given up on this, but it can't hurt to ask, just in case.

My primary machine (which is over a year old now) is based on an ASUS P5E3 motherboard - Intel X38 chipset, so it officially supports a maximum FSB speed of 1333 MHz (no overclocking, etc).

I have two pairs of OCZ Platinum DDR3 2x1GiB RAM modules: one pair is rated at PC3-10666 (maximum 1333 MHz) with timings of 7-7-7-20, the other is rated at PC3-14400 (maximum 1800 MHz) with timings of 8-8-8-27. When I examine the SPD information for each pair of modules in CPU-Z, they both show the same timing information for each set of FSB frequencies, which leads me to believe that they are effectively the same type of modules (even though one pair is only officially rated for a lower maximum FSB frequency). That is, for a FSB frequency of 1333 MHz, they both claim they can operate at 7-7-7-20 timings.

I can run my system with either pair of modules without problem, although I do have to adjust the memory voltage to higher than the 1.5V specified for the DDR3 standard. The PC3-10666 pair specifies 1.8V on its packaging, the PC3-14400 pair does not specify a voltage but works fine at 1.8V as well. Neither pair seems to work at 1.5V.

I can get by with 2 GiB of RAM on my system, but recently I have noticed an increasing amount of hard disk activity, presumably from use of the swap space as a result of insufficient physical memory. I understand that 32-bit Windows XP will only recognise 3 GiB on a system with 4 GiB of memory, but I thought the extra gigabyte will still be useful and I don't think this issue is related to my problem anyway. (While I have used 32 and 64-bit versions of Linux in various distributions, I am constrained to Windows for most commercial games and I do not want to waste money on Windows 7 until I really have to.)

So, my problem is this: while installing both pairs of memory modules, Windows fails to boot properly, regardless of what RAM voltage I set (within the range 1.5-1.9V). I have tested all four modules with memtest86+ 4.00 in various configurations (one pair, the other pair, both pairs in different positions on the motherboard, etc) with no errors detected, so I am reasonably confident that the memory is okay. It is only Windows that fails to load - sometimes it freezes at the splash screen (with the bars scrolling across the bottom), sometimes it freezes after logging in and applications are loading.

I'll admit this is a fairly obscure issue and there isn't much information to go on, so I will understand if no one has any ideas or suggestions. But still, if there's someone who can help, it's worth a shot. I can live with 2 GiB for the time being, but I don't really want to have the second pair of modules sitting around doing nothing and me having wasted my money for no gain.
 
I updated the BIOS when I first got the motherboard, so it would recognise the CPU I installed. There's a version that has been released since then, but all the update says is that it adds support for more CPUs and fixes an optical-drive booting error.

I suppose I could try updating the BIOS anyway, but I am wary of doing stuff like that because of the potential for catastrophic failure. Maybe I'll give it a go next time I need to reboot.
 
Have you tried setting the memory timing manually(all of them), including the 1.8v standard? Also did you run an "extended" test from memtest overnight?

There is also no real reason for windows itself to crash, but it is possible that on your boot some program or service is adressing over 2GB of physical memory, that could cause windows to crash.

There is an "undocumented" fix for this, the "/3GB switch", basicilly you would need to modify your BOOT.INI file, apply "/3GB" in the end before "/Fastdetect" in the line(s) under "[operating systems]". You can find the BOOT.INI file in root of the primary active partition of your first Hard drive(usually C:\).

If windows still does not start up, try an XP-live cd, like found on the Hi-Ren bootcd, if that starts up then the problem is not windows but some application, service or driver causing the problem.
 
Thanks for posting.

Yes, I have manually set the timings when all four modules are installed (4 GiB). It's the same timing as automatically detected when only installing one pair at a time. I have always had to set the memory voltage manually. I can't spare the time for an overnight memtest run, but I have done several test runs already, without failure. I know that's no guarantee of reliability, but it should be a fairly good indication that the modules work well enough.

Just wondering, why would I have programs trying to address over 2GiB of memory? If I did have any of those, shouldn't my system have failed before, when I only had 2 GiB of RAM? I did some reading on the /3gb switch. I suppose it's worth a try.

I don't have access to a live CD, I'm not sure how to go about obtaining one, given that Windows is a propriatary OS. Still, I know the aim is to eliminate variables. I'm just perplexed as to how my system can run fine for long periods of time (order of weeks) with either pair of memory modules installed one at time, but not both simultaneously.
 
Sure, windows is a propierty OS, but it does not matter how you run or obtain it, as long as your license itself is legal. I'm not sure if the Hi-Ren CD is fully legal as a product, since the developer does not host or sell it himself. It is however only usefull for copying lost files and checking numerous hardware components.

As for memory access; the problem is not that the program would be adressing too much memory, but adressing too much physical memory in a way the windows memory manager can not handle(swap) them anymore? probably something that was never tested, and nobody had a 4GB test system in the time when 64MB was normal.
 
Double post? :)

That makes sense, I suppose. Is it common for programs to foul up in this way when more than 2 GiB of physical memory is installed? I ought to have heard something about this before, it's just that I don't think I have. Oh well, it's certainly another thing to try when I next reboot.
 
Mace said:
As for memory access; the problem is not that the program would be adressing too much memory, but adressing too much physical memory in a way the windows memory manager can not handle(swap) them anymore? probably something that was never tested, and nobody had a 4GB test system in the time when 64MB was normal.
Click to expand...

Windows XP can handle the full 4Gb address space, and excess system RAM is silently ignored if there isn't enough address space for everything. The /3Gb switch should have no effect on this, all that says is that applications which claim to be Large Address Aware may have up to 3Gb of private address space rather than 2Gb.

I suspect the actual problem is that the two sets of RAM do not like each other, or the motherboard has trouble using all four slots at once. Relaxed timings or slightly more voltage may help matters.
 
That's the funny thing. Given that they're so similar, I would hope they would work together, but apparently not. It may be a motherboard issue, true, and I have no way of confirming or eliminating that as a possibility.

It didn't seem to want to work at 8-8-8-27, either, and I'm reluctant to increase the timings more than that as it would defeat the purpose of having these particular modules - I may as well just blow money on generic products instead.

As for voltage levels, I have gone as far as 1.9V. At 1.92V, the system gives nasty warning beeps, so I dare not go further than that. Thanks for the information, though.
 
Updated the BIOS and tried using the /3GB switch, no noticeable difference. Perhaps the pairs are incompatible with each other after all. I suppose I will have to give up for now, a pity about the waste of money.

I forgot to mention last time that the freezing occurs even in Safe Mode, so in hindsight, the problem is probably not software related.
 
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