Dune Discussion

Dragon1

Dragon1

Rear Admiral
Hello everybody,

I am re-reading the original Dune book series by Frank Herbert. I am now nearing the end of 'Heretics of Dune'. Do you guys know of any good Dune discussion forums? I did a google search and came up with a couple, but I need the advice of those of you guys who have followed the Dune community as to which ones provide intelligent debate.

Thanks
 
I used to frequent Dune2k myself. Haven't been there in awhile. I've only read the first two books and half of the third. I love Dune 2000 and Emperor though. And I enjoy the movie too.
 
I would say that of the alternatives, Dune2k (http://dune2k.com/) is the best.

My experience with Dune communities online has been fairly negative, though, and I think the two pre-eminent communities are.

alt.fan.dune was the pre-eminent Dune community for many years. When the internet and I were young, Dune was one of the best represented fandoms, and the newsgroup seemed thrilling to a thirteen year old. Adults were talking about my favorite book, and taking it as serious literature! Amazing!

It became clear, over the years, though, that afd was an incredibly, incredibly incestous group -- they're a "we exist only to say we're brilliant" sort of a newsgroup. They look down on pretty much anything but the original Dune novels and the Lynch movie vehemently... they hate the Kevin J Anderson books, the recent movie, all the video games, etc all beyond critical reason. Basically, a bunch of jerks pretending to be cultured. (Insult to injury, with an Lit degree and a half behind me I now know that most of what they had to say about Dune in the first place was pseudointellectual crap...)

Dune2k, on the other hand is... young. It's a lot of kids who are still in that pre-reason phase of internet fandom, where the coolest thing in the universe is a battle scene or a video game letting you build a bigger missile launcher. They're a lot more accepting, though, and if they survive for a while they'll be a great place for Dune discussion.

(I'm sure ranting about afd makes me sound like I had some experience there to be bitter about -- I really didn't, I never posted to the group... I just lurked for several years and occasionally go back to see them all stroking their egos over hating the prequel novels.)
 
They look down on pretty much anything but the original Dune novels and the Lynch movie vehemently... they hate the Kevin J Anderson books, the recent movie, all the video games, etc
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I'm surprised that a group like that could possibly like the old Dune movie. It's even more inaccurate and far from Herbert's original than the miniseries (Which I thought was awesome) or the Prequels.
Have you read the prequel novels? If so, what did you think of them?
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I've read all of them. I'll agree that they don't have the same subtle mind-games and political intrigue that made the original Dune series so classic, but they were entertaining and well-written books in their own right. If you're a big Dune fan, i'd recommend them.
 
Have you read the prequel novels? If so, what did you think of them?
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Yes, I've read all of them so far. They're lots of fun... because Kevin J. Anderson shines when he is emulating someone else's writing style. That's what he does best (he seems happy to acknowledge this - see his brilliant War of the Worlds anthology)... and in the prequels he does an excellent job of writing in a style that reminds you of the original Dune. They're fun, solid stories that spend lots of time reminding you of an even better story... I couldn't ask for more out of them. I'm very happy that they didn't try and create high minded literature for the prequels, because that would have fallen flat.

What they're not is high art... but I would argue that to a great extent neither were the original Dune novels. Certainly the first and the second books have major social commentary aspects to them... but after that they really don't. And frankly, as literature the originals fall apart towards the end. Heretics and Children both seem to be Frank Herbert believing his own hype in terms of trying to anomalously suggest some deeper meaning to everything that just isn't there.

I'm surprised that a group like that could possibly like the old Dune movie. It's even more inaccurate and far from Herbert's original than the miniseries (Which I thought was awesome) or the Prequels.
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You forget that pseudointellectualism and David Lynch movies go together like frogs and water.

I don't think they're a group worried about inaccuracies (as a less 'mature' community like we are would be) in so much as they are interested in patting themselves on the back and assuring each other that the science fiction they love is actually incredibly brilliant in all aspects -- and Lynch's incredibly vauge and intentionally weird Dune movie helps that cause quite a bit.
 
It became clear, over the years, though, that afd was an incredibly, incredibly incestous group -- they're a "we exist only to say we're brilliant" sort of a newsgroup. They look down on pretty much anything but the original Dune novels and the Lynch movie vehemently... they hate the Kevin J Anderson books, the recent movie, all the video games, etc all beyond critical reason. Basically, a bunch of jerks pretending to be cultured. (Insult to injury, with an Lit degree and a half behind me I now know that most of what they had to say about Dune in the first place was pseudointellectual crap...)
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Very funny you say that LOAF. I have had a similar experience in martial arts communities. I think this is one reason why out of all the discussion groups I go to, the CIC is one of the best. Things are debated seriously, but we try not to take ouselves too serious (sometimes this is something I have to work on). This factor alone cuts down most of the crap that is found in other communities.

I found the prequel novels (Atreides, Harkonnen, and Corrino) very good for what they are, although the Butlerian Jihad books kind of lost me after 'The Machine Crusade', the robo-suit mech stuff just wasn't grabbin' me.

And frankly, as literature the originals fall apart towards the end. Heretics and Children both seem to be Frank Herbert believing his own hype in terms of trying to anomalously suggest some deeper meaning to everything that just isn't there.
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I like Heretics, although I found the Bene Gesserit order to be too much the crux of the story and are a bit overdone from their beginings that we saw in the first novel. They started off as a secret society that worked politics from the shadows, to suddenly being super-women with enormous physical and mental power. The Sufism thrown into the Bene Tleilaxu religion and society I thought was an interesting touch.

God Emperor seemed a little high brow with the moralistic 'golden path' stuff. I am also just a little tired of the constant theme of Atreides altruism. Herbert by the end of the series made the entire Atreides line seem two dimensional.
 
Very funny you say that LOAF. I have had a similar experience in martial arts communities. I think this is one reason why out of all the discussion groups I go to, the CIC is one of the best. Things are debated seriously, but we try not to take ouselves too serious (sometimes this is something I have to work on). This factor alone cuts down most of the crap that is found in other communities.
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Yeah... well, we play hard, but I think we generally recognize that we're playing -- and we know that being able to talk about Wing Commander obscurities for ten thousand posts doesn't make us any kind of intellectuals.

I think I enjoyed the Butlerian Jihad books more than the House Variables... I think they had the writing style down pat for them and there were far less opportunities for building officious continuity.

I like Heretics, although I found the Bene Gesserit order to be too much the crux of the story and are a bit overdone from their beginings that we saw in the first novel. They started off as a secret society that worked politics from the shadows, to suddenly being super-women with enormous physical and mental power. The Sufism thrown into the Bene Tleilaxu religion and society I thought was an interesting touch.

God Emperor seemed a little high brow with the moralistic 'golden path' stuff. I am also just a little tired of the constant theme of Atreides altruism. Herbert by the end of the series made the entire Atreides line seem two dimensional.
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I think God Emperor probably leads directly to what I was complaining about in Heretics and Children... but I've always had a soft spot for it -- because it takes a heck of a lot of nerve to completely change the popular setting of your series in the way God Emperor did. We look back on it as being just another Dune story and being exactly how the series ultimately works... but it was a big risk in 1981.

Heretics and Chapterhouse didn't have the benefit of that being a new concept... it seemed more like "oh, you enjoyed that big shift? well, then, here's the same thing again, but bigger!".

Dune...
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You nailed it, this is a thread about Dune. What gave it away?
 
think God Emperor probably leads directly to what I was complaining about in Heretics and Children... but I've always had a soft spot for it -- because it takes a heck of a lot of nerve to completely change the popular setting of your series in the way God Emperor did. We look back on it as being just another Dune story and being exactly how the series ultimately works... but it was a big risk in 1981.
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My main problem with God Emperor was that it was based on a very vague idea (The Golden Path) that isn't fully understood until you have finished the series. I'll agree that the shift of setting from a desert world with little vegetation to a forest world with little desert provided an interesting contrast. Notice how different in style God Emperor was from the other books, Heretics and Chapterhouse return to the political intrigue and mind games, just as Dune returned to desert.
Dune...
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Yes, Dune.
 
One of these days, I need to find the patience to read through Children of Dune (...and the rest of the series). The first time I tried it, I simply couldn't get through it, it bored me to tears - but I must have been about thirteen back then, so my attention span was much shorter.
 
I really liked the first a lot, enjoyed the second, endured the third and couldn't finish the fourth beacuse of its huge pile of pretention. IT is so "OMG I'm so smartz0r" that I was bored to tears.

And I'm not a sci-fi lover, I prefer good literature. God Emperor was just tedious.

The House prequels are good fanservice, they show a lot of cool things, including some that are hard to swallow... And the fact that they're devoid of any intellectual or literary pretense only made them better to read.

Whether we like it or not, Dune is one of the major Sci-fi pillars... Even Forsttchen made a Dune-on-ice series, where he exercises his sadism towards his characters, the elaborate gruesome deaths are actually fun to read.
 
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