Continuity
- Thread starter vodka7
- Start date
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Manic said:
Yeah, I hate the movies lack of "exact stats".
Frosty
a full fledged GF
I think it's important to note that it's possible to have an incorrect opinion.
It's a bit cutesie to declare that you disagree, but claim "just an opinion" as if it were some mystical barrier against logic and reason. Especially an unsubstantiated one adrift in a universe of proof.
It's a bit cutesie to declare that you disagree, but claim "just an opinion" as if it were some mystical barrier against logic and reason. Especially an unsubstantiated one adrift in a universe of proof.
Well, “fun” is sometimes the best answer you can give. But I gather you feel that the quest for WC canon is taken a little too seriously; you question why it’s so important to some. You should ask yourself two other questions: “Why are a number of physicists so intent on resolving the “conflict” between relativity and quantum mechanics?” and “Why was Isaac Asimov (of all people) so interested in contributing to Sherlock Holmes lore?”
The first comprises a dedicated career, while the second obviously involves a less than common pastime, but both could justly be confronted with the question of “importance”. What is the point, really? What good does it do (beyond inspiring Woody Allen) to know that one day, so to speak, the other six dimensions–based on string theory, which is often criticized as being untestable anyway–will likely “unravel” and destroy the universe as we know it, not to mention all life? And what purpose is served (beyond sheer presumption) in trying to “flesh out” Professor Moriarty more than his creator Conan Doyle cared to?
Look, the simplest answer in all cases is that we’re hardwired to do it. It’s what brains, and in particular our brains, do. Put in a more humanist way, we have a natural yearning to understand “us” and our “place” in the proverbial world. (Experiments in memory and left versus right brain activity strongly support that thesis. Some so-called neuro-philosophers would argue that’s the sole purpose of consciousness itself. Art and culture are then also offshoots, if you will.) And whether serious or frivolous, art and specifically drama (and the same goes for science) usually depict life with a limited, and thus more manageable, set of variables to ponder.
And ponder we do. I certainly can’t speak for Asimov; his motive in writing a story about the “early” Moriarty may have been only social (looking to join a formal club that included the likes of Tom Wolfe). But you can read his story as toying with how a scientific, or perhaps purely materialist, bent of mind can tilt towards evil. And a variation of that issue is clearly what interests any number of us in Tolwyn. Our attraction to Blair is equally easy to understand. But for us to make sense of them (to “get out of them” something of value to each of us), or of any of the other WC characters (including the human condition in general in the 27th century and later), the context has to make some sense too. And so yes, many of us are driven to “mend” inconsistencies in the storyline. (By the way, in that regard, I couldn’t disagree more with Haesslich’s reference to Blair and Jazz; I find Blair’s “recollection” wonderfully human.)
Of course we don’t devote such intense (or even minimal) interest to every bit of fiction (let alone fact) we come across. Whose brain could afford to? And so I guess that brings me back to each person’s measure of “fun” (and maybe, therefore, its biological function). Perhaps someone here will feel driven to choose cognitive science as a career, investigate the matter further, and report back as soon as possible.
Haesslich
Spaceman
Nemesis said:
It might have been justification, or it might've been something he changed his mind on later (deciding that justice meted out by the courts was better than shooting a helpless man floating in front of his guns), but the point of the reference was to show that people who dogmatically try to follow 'canon' get screwed up by the games themselves, which are about the most 'canon' source about.
So people who nitpick about the movie being not Wing Commander, yet accept everything in the game as fact get twisted when they see Blair's either lying or that the game got something wrong.
Personally, I rather disliked the movie for being too 'Das Boot'. However, I'm not going to argue at great lengths to say it's an alternate universe.
Haesslich said:
He is???
To me he's just a innocent lookable guy with a weird smile. I'll never know why they selected him for Blair. Wasn't there another young person with more character available at that time?
Don't get me wrong, he is well suited for romantic-comedy thingies but for Blair? He simply doesn't have the look for it.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
Nemesis said:
Well, in understanding why everyone else values it so much, I gain insight into why I was so obsessed with it.
Wow, that was a great post. Thanks.
Sylvester
Vice Admiral
Just my Two Cents:
Blair is a "Lieutenant JG" which is equivalent to a 1st lieutenant in Space Forces Ranks.
Angel is a "Lieutenant Commander" which is equal to a Major in SF ranks (I seriously doubt 'miss perfect' would do anything that gets her demoted)
I first played WC in 1994 when I was 5. First game I ever played.
Blair is a "Lieutenant JG" which is equivalent to a 1st lieutenant in Space Forces Ranks.
Angel is a "Lieutenant Commander" which is equal to a Major in SF ranks (I seriously doubt 'miss perfect' would do anything that gets her demoted)
I first played WC in 1994 when I was 5. First game I ever played.
dextorboot
Spaceman
I really hate the phrase "the Human Condition". Like we're all suffering some terrible disease or something. It should really be stricken from the english language.
First off, Nemesis, excellent post!
Oh? Like disobeying a direct order? Like putting millions of lives at stake?
That's exactly what she did when she chased after that skipper. Sure, she "did the right thing" saving the 'Claw but she seriously endangered the mission, which seriously endangered Earth and the entire war effort. Also, Blair breaking radio silence in the asteroid field and Maniac pretty much being responsible for Rosie's death (which, also, were violations of disobeying direct orders) could've got them demoted back to 2nd Lt.
Sylvester said:
Oh? Like disobeying a direct order? Like putting millions of lives at stake?
That's exactly what she did when she chased after that skipper. Sure, she "did the right thing" saving the 'Claw but she seriously endangered the mission, which seriously endangered Earth and the entire war effort. Also, Blair breaking radio silence in the asteroid field and Maniac pretty much being responsible for Rosie's death (which, also, were violations of disobeying direct orders) could've got them demoted back to 2nd Lt.
)dextorboot
Spaceman
Death said:
No, that has nothing to do with being human. That is by virtue of being alive. Dog, cat, toe fungus, tape worm. Doesn't matter.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Re: movie ranks (I am in no way qualified to speak on the human condition... but movie ranks I can do), consider two things:
- Nearly *every* movie rank is a 'Naval' rank and two grades above what it should have been in WC1.
- Pilots *start* two 'Naval' grades higher - Blair and Maniac have graduated as Lieutenants rather than Ensigns.
Just take into account the second when converting and you've explained the first.
), consider two things:- Nearly *every* movie rank is a 'Naval' rank and two grades above what it should have been in WC1.
- Pilots *start* two 'Naval' grades higher - Blair and Maniac have graduated as Lieutenants rather than Ensigns.
Just take into account the second when converting and you've explained the first.
Sylvester said:
... because their training is so long. If the trainee happens to be a below-par officer (or pilot... or anything that would ensure a swift promotion) they have the potential to be denied that silver bar. A pilot completing training with a butter bar is extremely rare but the fact remains that getting O2 once you get your wings isn't a *freebie* per se.
* at least in the USN
The canon reunification between the movie and game universes reminds me of the feeble attempts of physicists to unite the predictions of the ether theory with the ramifications of the Michaelson-Morley experiment, which denied the existance of the ether... A number of long and clumsy reunifications were made which all made logical sense but were simply too complex to sustain plausibility.
There comes a point where the explanation behind a theory becomes more complicated than the theory itself. Instead I choose to use Occam's Razor, and see the WC Universe for what it is. A number of fictional works created with little or no reference to each other. it is far simpler to disregard erroneous facts than to invent lengthy explanations for them. To whoever who commented on physics working this way, it most definitely does not.
It is simpler to disregard the movie than to have to invent ways such as the rank reduction method in which this is true. Just because Blair is Lt Crd in the Kilrathi Saga manual doesn't mean he was transferred to the Navy and then back to the Space Force, does it?!
There comes a point where the explanation behind a theory becomes more complicated than the theory itself. Instead I choose to use Occam's Razor, and see the WC Universe for what it is. A number of fictional works created with little or no reference to each other. it is far simpler to disregard erroneous facts than to invent lengthy explanations for them. To whoever who commented on physics working this way, it most definitely does not.
It is simpler to disregard the movie than to have to invent ways such as the rank reduction method in which this is true. Just because Blair is Lt Crd in the Kilrathi Saga manual doesn't mean he was transferred to the Navy and then back to the Space Force, does it?!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Nope - but this sort of 'rank scheme' changing is common *throughout* WC (as you've just pointed out...). It therefore seems fairly unreasonable to say that the movie should be 'ignored' for it.