Building a Better Moustrap

Bandit LOAF

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Howdy

I don't usually post here, because I don't have a lick of sense regarding tech support... but now I need some help <G>

I want to set up a Wing Commander legacy machine -- and I'm looking for reccomendations of what to put into it. It needs to be able to play any of the PC Wing Commander titles...

What do y'all reccomend? If there's some particularly great sound card for WC1 or some video card that works best for Prophecy, I want to know! <G>
 
Hi LOAF, always glad to retribute your tips!

I have a P166 in which I play everything from WC1 to Prophecy, with great gameplay and movie speed, great sound and great video.

For WC1 and 2 (and add-ons) I have to use Moslo and disable the internal cache, though, but with the right setup everything works great on my only computer.

Here goes my config:

Pentium 166mhz
40 MB Ram
6.4 Mb HD
Video: SiS 6326 PCI 8MB (not on-board)
SoundBoard: Sound Blaster PCI 128
52x CD-Rom
Windows 98 and its hidden (and better) add-on: DOS 7.0! :D
Regular 2-button joystick

I think I have an almost perfect WC machine. You could improve it with 64MB Ram and a better videoboard, that won't harm also. But my SiS 6326 perfectly handles every game.

As I said, I only have to make some adjustments to play WC1 and WC2. What I do is go in the BIOS setup and turn off the internal cache, then set Moslo to 51% for WC1 and 72% for WC2.
With those configurations, both games run very well.

I also have Priv 1 and 2, WC3 and WC4 and they also run very well with no unusual adjustments needed.

Prophecy runs great too in the "Software" video mode, but I can't use Direct3d or the gameplay gets a little bit slow. I think 64MB Ram would solve that minor issue.

I don't think you should try a faster processor, though, the interface between Moslo and WC 1/2 is very.... delicate. If you do not find the right setting you will have a big problem because the gameplay and the"movies" will run at different speeds and it took me a while to find the best setup (Chris Reid gave me some advice). But fortunately I DID find an excellent setup that allows me to play both games as smooth as if I had an old 386.

Another major issue to get old WC games working is how to setup DOS with these new videoboards and soundcards. Before buying them, make sure they are DOS-compatible. (However, Creative Labs' site says my SBPCI won't work with DOS, but I found some DOS drivers in the board's driver CD, set them up and now I have great sound in all games).

About the other DOS configurations (autoexec, config, emm386, etc.), I believe the Bandit LOAF can handle that. If you can't, nobody's perfect, ask me or John (Repairman) for help and we will be glad to assist.
 
eh, any ultimate Wing Commander machine needs a proper Glide card to run Prophecy in all her glory... Go original Voodoo!

Ease of setup-wise for all the games, the SB16 ISA is still great... (still have one in my old system...)
 
I have a TNT2 myself... it runs Prophecy wonderfully. Haven't tried fog yet with a glide driver. If I do, I'll see if I'd miss it.
 
It's really depends on what you really want to do. If you only really want to play the DOS games a low-end Pentium do. If you want to play all WC games include WC4 DVD then you'll a DVD player. Here's what I recommend with only WC games in mind.

DOS machine:
486 DX 66mhz to P166.
16-32 MB RAM
HDD 500 Meg-1Gig
CD-ROM 8x RW.
8 MB PCI Graphic card - Optional
SB 16 PCI/ISA sound card.
MS DOS 6.20 or PC DOS 7.0
Logitech mouse (because the clocking.exe can be used to hide it from memory.)


Win98/DOS machine Dual boot:
P166 Minimum
32 Meg RAM Minimum- 64 to 128 recommended.
HDD 1 Gig. Minimum
DVD-ROM
CL Dxr3 or Hollywood plus DVD decoder card. (For WC4 DVD)
Voodoo 4-5 Graphic card. - For WCP.
DirectX 7.1
SB 16 PCI/ISA sound card.
MS DOS 6.20 or PC DOS 7.0
Logitech mouse (because the clocking.exe can be used to hide it from memory.)
Partition Magic. I love this program. You can also use System Commander.

Key things to consider:
AMD K6 2 400 or K6 3s are o'kay to use too.
No WC game has ever been design to take advantage of OpenGL.
Only WCP was design for a 3D card. It was design to work best with Voodoo cards.
The FX sounds of WC games isn't really that great. A SB 16 card would work just fine. Get good speakers ($25.00).
Voodoo 4-5 Graphic cards only supports DirectX 7.1
If your PC to fast you need to use Moslo for WC1-2.
I haven't seen any speed problems with KS or any other Windows base WC game except for P2 Win95.

WCP Minimum Requirements
Pentium 166 mhz (without supported 3D card)
Pentium 133 mhz (with supported 3D card)

Privateer 2: The Darkening Minimum Requirements
Pentium 75 mhz

Kilrathi Saga
Pentium 60Mhz Minimum Requirements

I have design a menu driven autoexec.bat and config.sys, which will run any WC DOS base game under MS DOS 6.20.
 
I would like it to run WCIVDVD -- the legacy machine should take away my need to put a Hollywood card in every regular computer I build. :)

I seem to recall (and I might be completely wrong) that WC1 had really cool music if you had a specific second (MIDI?) card... anybody remember anything like that?

Graphics card for Prophecy -- IIRC nothing nicer than an original Voodoo daughter board is necessary... I still have my old Canopus Pure3D 6 meg card -- is there some reason a Voodoo 4/5 would be better than this? Tangent -- there was some report at the CIC a while back that some 'new' video thing made Prophecy smoother... was that true/worth looking into?

It'd be *nice* (but not necessary) to have a video card with a TV-in... my ultimate goal is to set up a cabinet with this computer and a bunch of WC consoles in it.
 
I guess I should make a list of exactly what I want it to do...

DOS-
- Play the DOS versions of WC1, WC2, WC3, WC4, Privateer, Academy, Armada and Privateer 2. (I'd like to have the space to play multiple versions of these games -- for instance, I'd like to have an install of WC1 with the original Secret Missions and one with the altered dialogue). It needs to do all this as well as it possibly can -- if Origin experimented with some crazy perhipheral that made WC4 cooler, I want to track that down and use it <G>
- Load the Origin FX screensaver and the WC3 'Behind the Screens' program in 3.11.
- Be able to grab screenshots from any of these games.

Win95-
- Play the Win95 version of Prophecy, Kilrathi Saga, WC4 and Privateer 2.
- Be able to play VCDs of Wing Commander Academy.
- Be able to play the Wing Commander movie on DVD.
- Be able to view an archive of WC information (html-based).
- Be able to play WC soundtracks (CDs and mp3s).
- Run PC98, FM Towns and Amiga (500) emulators. This isn't *absolutely* necessary (and I don't even know how great PC98 emus are), but it would save me a lot of time and money. <G>
- Grab screenshots of any of the above.
- Have a TV-in to play through various consoles (5!). Failing that, a TV-out so I can just do everything on a single TV. The TV-in is preferred because I'd like to play WC1 CD32 in PAL mode...
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I seem to recall (and I might be completely wrong) that WC1 had really cool music if you had a specific second (MIDI?) card... anybody remember anything like that?
Click to expand...
SB 16 can play midi. We just need to add some setting to the autoexec.bat to enable it.

Graphics card for Prophecy -- IIRC nothing nicer than an original Voodoo daughter board is necessary... I still have my old Canopus Pure3D 6 meg card -- is there some reason a Voodoo 4/5 would be better than this?
Click to expand...
Your Canopus is a Voodoo 2 card. Your need two them to get 800x600. You'll also need a third graphic card to get 2D graphic. With a voodoo 4/5 card you'll get better performance, higher resolution and they are 2d/3d cards. Plus you wont need to worry about the vesa driver for DOS since they should be enbedded now. You could opt for a Voodoo 3 card too but you'll need to add the vesa driver.

It'd be *nice* (but not necessary) to have a video card with a TV-in... my ultimate goal is to set up a cabinet with this computer and a bunch of WC consoles in it.
Click to expand...
As far as TV-out the Drx3/hollywood plus has that. Now the TV-in I'm not so sure of. I would need to do some research. Maybe the ATI's ALL-IN-WONDER?

But now I am thinking you'll need to get a good MB that can handle the power distribution needs of your hardware without spending a lot of money. I would suggest a Abit KT7A revision 1.3. It has 1 AGP, 6 PCI and 1 ISA. This would give you petty of room to grow. You could get a AMD Athlon T-Bird 900 mhz processor, their really cheap now. Maybe a Maxtor 30 Gig HDD and a 350 watt PSU.
 
Yes, the ATI's ALL-IN-WONDER card will give you TV-IN/OUT. I would go with your Canopus Pure3D and ATI's ALL-IN-WONDER with a Drx3 card. Go to www.ati.com to learn more about ATI's ALL-IN-WONDER card.

Maybe someone knows of another way to go. Also check out http://www.voodoofiles.com/ for voodoo drivers and help.
 
I read that all-in-one cards are really dodgy... although, since this machine will be purely dedicated to WC, I guess it should be okay.

Originally posted by Starkey
Pentium 166mhz
40 MB Ram
6.4 Mb HD
Video: SiS 6326 PCI 8MB (not on-board)
SoundBoard: Sound Blaster PCI 128
52x CD-Rom
Windows 98...

Prophecy runs great too in the "Software" video mode, but I can't use Direct3d or the gameplay gets a little bit slow. I think 64MB Ram would solve that minor issue.
Click to expand...
I have a similar configuration, but with 64MB RAM and only a 4BM video card. I too find WCP a bit slow in D3D, but I stick with it most of the time, or at least turn off some stuff like textured space.
 
I used an all-in-wonder card a while back and was pretty happy with everything but the DVD portion. I didn't really bother to fool around with it much, though... (I recently saw an external USB-based ATI TV-in device, which looked awfully convenient -- I'd still need a 2D card).

IIRC my Canopus is an original Voodoo -- this is it here. Would a pair of Voodoo 2's be better in any way? (Not *that* interested in the high res patch -- it'd be cool, but my preference is to have the game run as well as was originally intended).

I did some DejaGoogle searching and found that the 'device' that Wing 1/2 supposedly take special advantage of is the Roland LAPC-1 ISA card. Anybody know anything about this?
 
I don't know anything about a MT-32 external module, but my SB PCI 128 emulates General MIDI and Roland MT-32, so I get superior music, compared to a regular Sound Blaster setting.
 
Originally posted by Wedge009
I read that all-in-one cards are really dodgy... although, since this machine will be purely dedicated to WC, I guess it should be okay.
Click to expand...

My mother board is not an "all-in-one", I thought I made it clear that I have separate Video, Sound and Modem boards, when I said that my SiS 6326 is NOT on-(mother)board.
 
Originally posted by Johnl12
CL Dxr3 or Hollywood plus DVD decoder card. (For WC4 DVD)
Click to expand...
the WCIV DVD requires a CL DXR2 board, it is ver touchy about that, i have a DXR3, i have used both creative's and sigma designs drivers, and niether works with the WCIV DVD, though the game still runs, it just uses the original XAN movies:(
 
Originally posted by Happy

the WCIV DVD requires a CL DXR2 board, it is ver touchy about that, i have a DXR3, i have used both creative's and sigma designs drivers, and niether works with the WCIV DVD, though the game still runs, it just uses the original XAN movies:(
Click to expand...

The Hollywood thing-a-magig is the generic version of the CL one...
 
Your Canopus is a Voodoo 2 card. Your need two them to get 800x600. You'll also need a third graphic card to get 2D graphic. With a voodoo 4/5 card you'll get better performance, higher resolution and they are 2d/3d cards. Plus you wont need to worry about the vesa driver for DOS since they should be enbedded now. You could opt for a Voodoo 3 card too but you'll need to add the vesa driver.
Click to expand...

the Voodoo 3's had vesa imbebbed, atleast the pci 3000 did, and i believe all v3 3000's had vesa imbebbed, i cann't speak for the 2000's, never owned one.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


The Hollywood thing-a-magig is the generic version of the CL one...
Click to expand...

the CL DXR3 is a Hollywood Plus with "Creative" stamped on it. so the Creative is a more expensive clone. they are interchangable, cards and drivers. though the dxr3 needs to be reagon set when u get it, not a big deal, dl the drivers from Creative, the program to do so is in there.

but to work with the WCIV DVD u need the dxr2 from CL.
as far as i know, it ts the only card that it works with.
it does not work with my dxr3, with dxr3 or hollywood plus drivers.
the dxr2 will still play dvd's, though i don't know of the cards picture quality for dvds. other than it is better than softdvd.
u can get the dxr2 from ebay, or goto http://www.pricewatch.com, i think the current price on there is $19 + shipping.

it should also b noted the the TV-OUT is only for DVD on these cards, they will not display ur desktop on a tv.
 
Canopus' Pure3D was a plain Voodoo card with an extra two megs of texture memory. It was what everybody wanted for Christmas back when Prophecy came out :)
 
not me, i wanted the intergraph intense 3d rush, i needed a new 2d card as well, since it was 2d and 3d, with 3dfx glide, it was a great choice for me.
i still like the card, even though it wasn't as powerful as the original voodoo.
 
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