X-B360 and Mac

[gevatter Lars]

Just found this little article...Powermac G5s at the Show

 

[ChrisReid]

Hrm, I figured those were just the devkits. The developers don't create and test the games on actual systems, and since all games are six months away from a final version, I figured most all games would just be running on devkits. Some games already did look very good, and I'd attribute things like aliasing or lack of FSAA to the preliminary nature of the games in development.

 

[gevatter Lars]

Another case of "to early released" ...still from the videos I saw the new consoles aree quite capable. Well they are now more closer to a PC/Mac then the older consoles from the technical point and with a price somewhere between 300-500$ (thats what I heard) they have a good price/performace.

 

[lorddarthvik]

"4xFSAA ON all times" Man, they still dindt learn that AA only blures an image till your eyes pop out form being unable to focus.. One of the billlion reasons a sane person would buy a PC instead... Those games look allright, but a TV is still just a TV, it'll never display 1600*1200 pixels, so if you want nice edges you have to turn on FSAA, whihc leads to the problem above If you got a monitor capable of aorund 1600*1200*, you can forget about FSAA, and can save half of the computing time, thus half the price or double the detail.

While reading the XBox reviews I almost thought they made something good at Microshit, but it seems they'r still doing their way... Good thing they pointed that out that XBox doesn't work yet though, that'l give some advantage to PS3. But who cares, I got PC! LOL

 

[ChrisReid]

"4xFSAA ON all times" Man, they still dindt learn that AA only blures an image till your eyes pop out form being unable to focus.. One of the billlion reasons a sane person would buy a PC instead... Those games look allright, but a TV is still just a TV, it'll never display 1600*1200 pixels,

That's just wrong.. typical HDTVs today should support 1280x720 or 1920x1080 pixel resolutions. 1280x720 will be the minimum resolution that XBox 360 games will have to support starting this November. FSAA isn't a gimmick at all, either, unless you really like jagged edges on your models. https://www.wcnews.com/news/update/2850

While reading the XBox reviews I almost thought they made something good at Microshit, but it seems they'r still doing their way... Good thing they pointed that out that XBox doesn't work yet though, that'l give some advantage to PS3. But who cares, I got PC! LOL

What an eeriely ignorant paragraph. I won't even touch it. Got my XBox 360 reserved now for 12:01 am launch night. Apparently I'm not sane.

 

[lorddarthvik]

And you'd buy a typical HDTV capable TV for.. lets say, 500bucks? Just cause you got an XBox? Good for you

Yeah I can see on the diff on the two pics, on the second one you can't see a thing cause its blurred up like looking through a pond of water... If thats what you want, good for you.

"What an eeriely ignorant paragraph. I won't even touch it. Got my XBox 360 reserved now for 12:01 am launch night. Apparently I'm not sane."

Good for you, wish I had a new 3dcard reserverd LOL

 

[ChrisReid]

And you'd buy a typical HDTV capable TV for.. lets say, 500bucks? Just cause you got an XBox? Good for you

What sort of ridiculous point are you trying to make? Good tvs and good computer monitors cost money. For $500, you're going to be getting a much larger high resolution TV than anyone has for their computer. My TV can run at a higher resolution than I'd ever use for a PC game. I got a great deal.

Yeah I can see on the diff on the two pics, on the second one you can't see a thing cause its blurred up like looking through a pond of water... If thats what you want, good for you.

No, the second image is nice and smooth. You're in a tiny minority if you think that looks bad.

Good for you, wish I had a new 3dcard reserverd LOL

I've already got a nice 256 meg geforce, but there's not really much point to getting fancy expensive 3d cards anymore.

 

[lorddarthvik]

Someone who loves low res screens/was born with a console, will never understand the difference between Smooth and Blurred, until he will see the difference on his HDTV, where you won't need the AA to get SMOOTH lines. Thats why a monitor for a PC was/is far better throught the years, compared to tv.
You'll get the point when you'll get your XBox, and you'll like thats for sure!
But, ya know, a PC still more worth its price.. Nope I' won't argue on that, you have to think about it yourself.

"No, the second image is nice and smooth. You're in a tiny minority if you think that looks bad."

Nope,I ain't in minority, I just know how a nice high rez image looks better then an AA-d TV screen-rez image (non HDTV of course, as that is still rare in the world)

"I've already got a nice 256 meg geforce, but there's not really much point to getting fancy expensive 3d cards anymore."
TRUE! I'm still usein a good old GF4 TI, and its still great for ANYTHING! Yes, even Doom3 and HL2 runs perfectly!

 

[ChrisReid]

Someone who loves low res screens/was born with a console, will never understand the difference between Smooth and Blurred, until he will see the difference on his HDTV, where you won't need the AA to get SMOOTH lines. Thats why a monitor for a PC was/is far better throught the years, compared to tv.

I've been playing PC games nonstop since 1987. The PC gaming industry has horribly declined in the last six years, however.

You'll get the point when you'll get your XBox, and you'll like thats for sure!
But, ya know, a PC still more worth its price.. Nope I' won't argue on that, you have to think about it yourself.

PC gaming certainly isn't worth it. Of course, everyone needs a computer to check their email, visit the CIC and hang out in #Wingnut. That's worth thousands of dollars right there. Expensive CPUs, gigabytes of RAM and $400 video cards for a lackluster slate of games that you usually can play better and cheaper on your consoles is a bum deal though.

Nope,I ain't in minority, I just know how a nice high rez image looks better then an AA-d TV screen-rez image (non HDTV of course, as that is still rare in the world)

Hehehe, you can't complain about rare TVs if you're in the market for cutting edge computer components. That's like me making fun of how crappy PC games look because most people don't have anything better than a geforce 2.

 

[lorddarthvik]

"The PC gaming industry has horribly declined in the last six years, however. "

Yep, sad but true You know why? Mostly casue of the need for more and more console games Cause the industry thinks that people like the "more simplifed/clean" games, wich tranlates as Primitve. "Path choosing in a spacesim, who needs that?"-they say Maybe they were right about 4 years ago, but today even the younger cry for better/more complicated games. Hopefully, things will get a little bit better someday.
You know what I'm playing right now? a game from 199x, Transport Tycoon! Because that has the quality of a good game! Even the graphics are nice today. Of course it would be nice to see it in full 3d, but still this 2d cartoony/toy style gives it the atmoshpere, wich todays games lack.

weeell, If I look at the prices of the console games and pc games here in my country, and the price of keeping a console and a pc up to date, then it's a hard choice. Console games cost double then PC, but buying and keeping a pc fresh equals it out. Counting with our prices! Not USA prices! There's a big difference, especially compared to the earnings.

 

[Maj.Striker]

Allow me to jump into this conversation late. But I will say this, although I used to be an exclusive PC gamer (I hated consoles...wasn't used to the controls, thought the games were too expensive, didn't have the right selection of games etc.) I have since changed my mind radically on the matter. About 2 years ago I realized that my pc (an 800MHZ Duron, with a 3d Prophet II Geforce 2 chipset) wasn't going to let me play the newer games anymore. Money was tight then and to upgrade my pc was simply too expensive. (I was looking a $1500 easily for a decent gaming rig). I decided instead to buy a used xbox and test it out. I bought mine for $150 I think and got four controllers and a couple of games (Halo and Brute Force). I started playing Halo and after a little bit found myself getting used to the controls. I bought most of my games used for $20 or less. I was enjoying great games that would have cost me the $1500 to upgrade the pc plus however much the games themselves would have cost me. What I'm saying is: consoles are cheap gaming machines.

Now, in regards to the next generation consoles...consider this: Both the xbox 360 and the PS3 have stats that would cost you $5,000 to build a comparable PC to today...you got that kind of cash? I know I don't...

 

[lorddarthvik]

apperantly, most people don't need a 5000dollar machine for the first one, and all the others need to spend much less to convert their PC's to that level.
I don't have that money of course. I only had to change the hard drive a few weeks ago, other then that I haven't changed anything for 2 years now. my machine is still considered a middle-high class machine. I can use it for faaar more things then an XBox1 or PS2, and the games cost around 35-60 bucks instead of 100. Then those can be modded/changed the way you want it, wich makes it more vaueable over a console game. Yes, I converted our prices, and an XBox game costs 25000ft-28000ft wich is roughly 100dollars. while PC games range from 7500ft to 13000ft. Its all about the numbers now... Then, if I want to enjoy the console, I'd have to buy a new HDTV! 2000dollars for a TV, just to play? makes no sense yet. Later, when the TV broadcastingwill be HDTV all over the world, it'll worth it of course. Untill then,i'll wait before I get neer anything that has "consol" marks on it

 

[Happy Camper]

Yeah, I have to agree with lorddrathvik on that one. I can upgrade my P.C. to a suitable level (new mb, cpu, memory graphics card, and 2 hard disks in a RAID 0 array) for around £250 which would do the business for a year or £300-400 pounds and get something that may last me around two years. I have found that it is far cheaper to upgrade your computer reguarly so that it will play the latest games then buy an uberpc and not upgrade for 3 or 4 years. My theory works like this:

You could by a top of the range P.C for around £1800

Or, you could pay around £600 for a new box perfectly capable of playing all the latest games including a 17in TFT monitor, a set of speakers etc. Next year, you would only require a minor upgrade say £150-200 to bring it up to spec. The year after you might spend £300-400 on a major upgrade, brining the you to a total of a max £1200. The end result of which will probably be of a higher spec than the uber pc you could have bought two years ago, and you even have enough money to upgrade it for another two years before you meet the price of the uber p.c. four years ago. It makes sense to me.

As for the P.C. vs Console argument, if you're going to buy a P.C. soley for games then you're wasting your money, as consoles can do a similar job for much less money. However, if you also use your P.C for surfing the net, e-mails word processing, video editing, sound editing etc. then a P.C. seems like a much better choice. If you don't do any processor intensive tasks other than gaming, then it makes sense to have a cheap slow P.C. and a console. So really, it's a bit pointless arguing over which one is better.

 

[Quarto]

Yep, sad but true You know why? Mostly casue of the need for more and more console games Cause the industry thinks that people like the "more simplifed/clean" games, wich tranlates as Primitve.

This is some strange logic - if console games were worse, why would there be more and more need for them? Similarly, if complex PC games are what everybody wants, then why doesn't anybody buy complex flight sims any more? Game developers don't create demand - they react to it. The industry doesn't think people want something - they know. That's what they've got market research for.

The truth is, as long as your average game could be made for a few hundred thousand dollars (at the most), developers could afford to produce all manner of niche titles like complex flight sims, strategy games, and so on. Today's games cost a lot more to produce, however, so most developers are no longer able to make niche titles. It's simple economics - you can't spend a million dollars making a game that will only bring in a million dollars, because you're trying to make a profit, not break even.

 

[Maj.Striker]

As for the P.C. vs Console argument, if you're going to buy a P.C. soley for games then you're wasting your money, as consoles can do a similar job for much less money. However, if you also use your P.C for surfing the net, e-mails word processing, video editing, sound editing etc. then a P.C. seems like a much better choice. If you don't do any processor intensive tasks other than gaming, then it makes sense to have a cheap slow P.C. and a console. So really, it's a bit pointless arguing over which one is better.

I believe that was my argument...I was merely saying to buy a pc that has the same gaming stats as an Xbox360 or a PS3 you'll probably have to sink about $5000 into it (I realize if you build it yourself and purchase online etc you can save money but for the average joe...its going to be about $5,000). That is just to get a computer that can equal the consoles' ability. If you bought a console...even if you did pay $100 a game for the console you're still going to be able to buy about 45 games before you start breaking even with what you would have to spend on that computer rig.

As for upgrading your pc every two to three years? Your still going to spend far more on the pc than your console. Don't get me wrong, I like PCs and everyone probably needs one but I'm saying if your trying to keep your PC up with the gaming needs then you're going to spend far more than just buying a console. Good Graphic cards alone are more expensive than these consoles (latest estimate I've heard on the 360 is at or around $300). The next generation consoles will last you at least 4 to 5 years before the next things hit. Assuming your are just upgrading your pc every two years and assuming you don't buy the top end graphic cards and such you're still going to spend $1,000 easily over the next 4 years on a PC that might or might not finally be equal to the consoles' abilities. (Assuming you start with a decent pc today).

 

[Happy Camper]

I believe we're just going to keep agreeing with each other in an argumentative fashion so I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[lorddarthvik]

"The next generation consoles will last you at least 4 to 5 years before the next things hit."

Man, thats right. And you'll cry for the new one after the 3rd year casue PC will evolve while you can't update you Consol to the same level. It's up to you wich path you take.Yep, you will spend more, but you'll enjoy i more probably. I'll leavw this argument here. Both sides have future!

 

[ChrisReid]

I can use it for faaar more things then an XBox1 or PS2, and the games cost around 35-60 bucks instead of 100. Then those can be modded/changed the way you want it, wich makes it more vaueable over a console game. Yes, I converted our prices, and an XBox game costs 25000ft-28000ft wich is roughly 100dollars. while PC games range from 7500ft to 13000ft. Its all about the numbers now... Then, if I want to enjoy the console, I'd have to buy a new HDTV! 2000dollars for a TV, just to play? makes no sense yet. Later, when the TV broadcastingwill be HDTV all over the world, it'll worth it of course. Untill then,i'll wait before I get neer anything that has "consol" marks on it

Of course you can do more things with a computer than a game console, but a game console is only going to set you back $100-300 every few years. That alone is no more expensive than the 3d card you'd have to be getting to maintain a gaming PC. Computer monitors are no cheaper than HDTVs either. a 21" PC monitor is going to average $400-600 here. A 26" HDTV is going to be about $450-550. You don't have to buy a $2000 52" HDTV any more than you have to buy one of those $2000 24" crazy flat PC monitors.

Of course, Europe is always screwed by the prices. Console and PC games are almost always the same price here with perhaps a $10 discount on the PC counterpart at most.

Man, thats right. And you'll cry for the new one after the 3rd year casue PC will evolve while you can't update you Consol to the same level. It's up to you wich path you take.Yep, you will spend more, but you'll enjoy i more probably. I'll leavw this argument here. Both sides have future!

It takes around 3 years for most developers to create the tools and become experienced enough with the platform to put out the best graphics. The original XBox is getting on four years old, but it's still putting out games of comparable graphics quality to the PC. The biggest limiting factor today is the resolution, which will be much less of an issue in the next console cycle.