What do you HATE (or at least dislike) in each Wing Commander game?

YCDTD

Commodore
WC1

  1. I haven't played it in so long. It was also the first game so I think I will just skip it...
WC2
  1. The Epee being worse than the Ferret - the ship you start with!
  2. The fact that your torpedos can get shot down. In fact, I don't really like the whole phase shield thing.
WC3
  1. Too few fighters. WC2, including the two expansions, gave you 7 fighters to play with.
  2. Crappy weapon loadouts on the Hellcat and Thunderbolt. Speaking of which...
  3. Ion cannons
  4. The exclusion of the explanation for Hobbes' betrayal
  5. Being pushed into a romance with Rachel instead of Flint even though I thought Flint was far more interesting and likable, and MacDonald is a much better actress then Allen.
  6. Did I mention ion cannons?
WC4
  1. Excessive attention towards the story/FMV instead of gameplay
  2. A switch from gunnery to missile based tactics.
More to follow...maybe.
 

Pedro

Admiral
WC1

Being framerate dependent, the larger an enemy is on screen the slower the game runs
Capital ship combat
Never found the storyline particularly memorable (not an issue for the expansions)

WC2
Nothing that I can recall. I was very fond of both the gameplay and plot.

WC3
Lack of fluidity in the game engine. Was probably present in WC1/2 too but at a lower resolution and enemy ships only being rendered from a few angles it never felt as bad.
Navy blue space (I know this was true of WC2 too, but it felt more in place with that style).

WC4
Same fluidity issues
The reliance on missiles
The disappointing showdown with Seether

WCP
The loss of dialogue choices
Petraca

SO
Lack of mission variety
The e-mail system being external to the game



I really loved phase shielding, it helped add variety to the missions and I was less frustrated using a bomber in WC2.

The story telling in WCIV was excellent; I did not mind the franchise leaning into the FMV.
I don't know if it was the right thing for the franchise, WCP couldn't live upto the high standard that had been set in that arena. I've grown to love WCP because it was at the other end of the spectrum; the best gameplay in the franchise, but I definitely enjoyed WCIV more at the time because the storytelling was the defining aspect of the franchise.

It needed a new engine however, Privateer 2 had it's issues but at least it felt smoother than WCIV
 
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Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I didn't think there was any forcing of romance in WC3. You could choose to ignore them both. I found both actresses were fine for their roles. The thing I didn't like about the romance was the petty reaction of the spurned comrade.

Agreed with phase shield positive influence on game-play - we just read about this in the Moongate excerpt.

I'm guessing the change in focus away from story-telling in Prophecy was at least partly due to budgetary reasons, but I also enjoyed the shift of focus to game-play in that instalment.

Something I hate? I can't really think of anything right now...
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
WC1: Asteroids seemingly crashing into you, even when you are at 250k/s
WC2: Getting yout ITTS taken out by either Thrakhath or the Drakai, so you can't torpedo the final base.
Academy: I don't really see it as a game, more like a mission editor
Armada: Should have had a campaign.
WC3: The longbow
WC4: The debate in the end.
WCP: The devastator
SO: That there was never a sequel.
Arena: No missions, no story. And there was no one to play with.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Thanks for reminding me what I didn't like: Privateer, Taryn Cross' missions, asteroids and Gothri together are no fun. Well, I suppose it was challenging and memorable.

I didn't ever have the problem of being unable to lock and fire torpedoes in WC2, though I did have my radar blown out a few times (a case of having an advantage when not using Expanded Memory to enable all features?). AFAIK, ITTS is for guns and is separate from torpedo locking.
 

capi3101

Rear Admiral
Armada: Should have had a campaign.

I'd amend that to be "Should have had a campaign that was something other than thirteen back-to-back Armada missions and/or ended when one player hit seven, because it was over at that point anyway."

And capships...it would've been fun to develop a more diversified fleet, methinks. At least it'd given you more opportunities to actually use them torps. At least I think it would've been.

WC4: Those thrice-damned atmospheric missions. Aside from not really adding much to the table, I'm still not sure how the hell I ever survived them other than dumb luck...

CCG: The fact that there were never any additional cards made / the fact that none of the games other than WC3 were ever represented. Still want to play the CCG with Scimitars and Dralthi-IIs at some point but I'm afraid I'm going to wind up having to do that sort of thing my own self.
 

YPersonified

1st Lieutenant
WC1
- Script bug virtually making a mission unwinnable - Hell's Kitchen 1.
- Comm static sound effects ruining Sound Blaster music experience.

WC2
- Sound Blaster music lacking depth and richness its predecessor had.
- Balance issues in dogfight scenario. Epee being too awful. Enemy's insane DPS.

WC3
- Planetside combat lacking a gravity factor. Surface needed detailed arts or doodads.

WC4
- That Bob-O-Matte's double clip is just too hard to forget.
- Needed Black Lance comm video for Seether.

WCP
- Not a Chris Roberts Game.
- Needed more pilot interactions.
- Unrealistic collision damage from Vision engine.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I'd amend that to be "Should have had a campaign that was something other than thirteen back-to-back Armada missions and/or ended when one player hit seven, because it was over at that point anyway."
I recall Armada being a kinda experimental thing for its development. Compared to other strategy games it does seem quite simplistic but I think perhaps they also didn't want to over-complicate things for a tradition WC player.

WC2
- Sound Blaster music lacking depth and richness its predecessor had.
Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about composition or the rendition from SB cards specifically? I found the music in WC2 as having more depth than WC1 and pretty sure some of the combat tracks were re-used from WC1 too.
 

tarsus

Captain
Wing Commander 1:
you would sometimes shoot in an asteroid field, and the energy would drain, but you wouldn't get any shots fired... this pissed me off to no end.

Secret Missions 1:
It felt like a downer... I didn't like that too much.

Secret Missions 2:
I felt so many fighters were thrown at me, that it made the kilrathi seem like less of a threat.

Wing Commander 2:
I had this bug with particle cannons that it would make the sound play forever, I would need to reset the sound card after exiting to dos...

Special ops 1:
The confed enemy ships being nerfed.

Special ops 2:
The mission layout meant often the ships would collide when exiting autopilot.
Bad guys tricked us to win... again. this is getting dull.

Academy:
You know when a character is added to a show? and they splice in scenes in the intro that look different from the rest? the wraith and the jrathek just don't fit right.

Privateer:
can't buy back the tarsus
can't hire a turret gunner

Armada
the combat is not fun. 80% of the game play is just "jousting" runs.

Wing 3:
The ships became uglier
Kilrathi were individually weaker.
Kilrathi losing their subtlety from wing2 (hobbes, shar n'tanya, ghorah khar).

Wing 4:
Space combat was less fun. So many gimmicks added on, not many of them fun.

privateer 2:
"ah, I just cleared out the last jincilla skull.. now to jump to the next point... "(4 more skulls jump in)

WCP:
So many bad guys on the screen at once, none of them felt like a threat. Battle of endor syndrome.
Dialog lacked a bit of gravitas.
I kinda wish the capships would go boom.
Vision engine's refire limitation is weird. 3 mass drivers shoot 50% slower than 2 mass drivers???

Secret Ops:
I can't blame them, it's a free game, but every gun change was for the worst.
Why have a cruiser with a bfg if capship combat doesn't exist?

Arena:
not available on PC
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
WCP:
So many bad guys on the screen at once, none of them felt like a threat. Battle of endor syndrome.
Until you saw the red Mantas (bomber) in your nav map...
I kinda wish the capships would go boom.
I understand this was a time-constraint thing and if they had the time they would have done better job with cap-ship destruction. On the other hand, the hulls remaining largely intact - I think - led to the lore about the skin disease in Secret Ops.
 

Dondragmer

Rear Admiral
I didn't ever have the problem of being unable to lock and fire torpedoes in WC2, though I did have my radar blown out a few times (a case of having an advantage when not using Expanded Memory to enable all features?). AFAIK, ITTS is for guns and is separate from torpedo locking.
I think that damage to Target Track disables all missile lock on (including torpedoes) and the Improved Target Tracking System for guns. (Dart DF, Pilum FF and Porcupine Mines will still work.) So yes, you lose torpedo locking and ITTS to the same event.

I don't think anyone has fully dug through the WC1 and WC2 damage model, but it always felt like damage to different quadrants had different effects - damage to rear is more likely to affect engines and power plant, damage to nose is more likely to affect Target Track and Communications. This means that taking a face full of Anti-Matter Guns from the capital ship you're trying to get lock on has a very high chance of destroying your Target Track, making the mission impossible.

I think the concept of phase shields was sound, but I'm on board with their implementation in WC2 being irritating. Gwynedd C showed promise. But in later missions where the capital ships are tougher, your wingmen don't seem to evade their fire at all.
 
WC 1: Can't fire your guns when too many game objects in the world. See that one mission where you go up against six? Salthi in an asteroid field.
WC 2: Paper fin armor/shields on most fighters.
WC 3: Joystick deadzone on the pitch.
WC 4: Missiles
Prophecy: Casey
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I don't really remember losing ability to lock torpedoes, but I suppose if that's the case that's some nice additions to game-play, however annoying. Once fighter cover is gone, I don't think many capital ships can pump out enough flak to take down a Broadsword, so the inability to lock torpedoes could be the only reasonable way a player would be forced on to a losing track if the capital ship in question is a critical objective.

From what I remember of WC2 damage, I certainly remember there being some sort of correlation between damage quadrant and component failure. Certainly it makes sense for damage to the rear to affect afterburners, manoeuvrability, etc, for example.
 

YPersonified

1st Lieutenant
Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about composition or the rendition from SB cards specifically? I found the music in WC2 as having more depth than WC1 and pretty sure some of the combat tracks were re-used from WC1 too.

Lack of depth in terms of musical arrangements done in re-used WC1 music, to be clear. Some parts of the score are clearly missing in WC2 version when you listen to it.

Haven't tried other sound cards yet, but MT-32 version sounded nice from what I've heard.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
WC1: Nothing. Not even the odd asteroid popping in.
SM: when you have to escort the two Draymans (Draymen?) ans they keep bumping into each other.
SM2: nothing.

WC2: No promotions. Starting the trend of making Kilrathi fighters just inferior.
SO1: Not so memorable story and so interesting bonus ship.
SO2: Nothing comes to mind.

Privateer and RF: nothing.

Armada: I haven't played it much in multi player but Kilrathi ships did seem again inferior. The combat system at ridiculous speeds. The Flux and Mas Driver cannons. The Phantom (my pick for worst ship in any WC game). No possibility to continue the gauntlet.

WC3: Portraying the Kilrathi as simple bloodlusty barbarians with incredibly inferior ships.
I still can't get over the time line entry where the Kilrathi attack an orphan ship. The really boring design of Confed ships. More or less no connection to WC2 in terms of tone and relationship. It felt really detached. Everybody telling you how to do your job. Very few likeable characters.

WC4: so incredibly grey. Lack of cockpits.

WCP: the story and atmosphere is rather weak and the bugs don't feel like a threat at all.

SOPS: Chain Ion cannon.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
The really boring design of Confed ships.
I thought that was just a part of limiting polygon counts, etc. Remember how demanding the game was for hardware of the time. Graphics accelerators weren't yet in mainstream use so everything was done on the CPU, I think.
WCP: the bugs don't feel like a threat at all.
The Ship-Killer seemed pretty intimidating on first impressions. But I suppose the relative ease they were pushed back does make it feel like a bit of a push-over by the end. Would have been nice to see how a full trilogy (or however many episodes) would have played out in terms of story arc.
 

tarsus

Captain
Does everyone agree it's a scummy move to make Blair suck the face off of one of his love interests in front of the other?
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
I don't really remember losing ability to lock torpedoes, but I suppose if that's the case that's some nice additions to game-play, however annoying. Once fighter cover is gone, I don't think many capital ships can pump out enough flak to take down a Broadsword, so the inability to lock torpedoes could be the only reasonable way a player would be forced on to a losing track if the capital ship in question is a critical objective.

From what I remember of WC2 damage, I certainly remember there being some sort of correlation between damage quadrant and component failure. Certainly it makes sense for damage to the rear to affect afterburners, manoeuvrability, etc, for example.
The component is "target track", and any hit on it results in damege: destroyed. The problem is in the last mission(the starbase), you are there with your fully decked out Sabre with Torpedo refit, just front armor mostly gone and Target Track destroyed. And no way to win. And reloading that mission on my 386SX/25 took a LONG time :p
 
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