reasonable predictions for a new WC game

Tooner623

Spaceman
I'll also point out... as several others have, that the Ace Combat series has been successful with their joystick pack-ins. The game does not REQUIRE a joystick to play, but for an extra price, you can get one *with* it that works with your console and really adds to the experience.

Personally I think that'd be a plan to emulate
 
..but Mr. Hamill is an experienced voice actor...

Malcolm Corley: What do you know, Ripburger? You've never even been on a bike!

Adrian Ripburger: Oh, you know I'd be on one right now, sir, if not for this... destabilizing inner-ear condition.

Malcolm Corley: Ah, your ears are fine. It's what's between 'em that scares me.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0189538/quotes

That pause and then "destabilizing inner ear condition" line has stayed with me...

Man, it makes me want to get my copy of Full Throttle out and play it this weekend! :)!
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Might the game be big enough to pull off an anthology of sorts, follow the history of Wing Commander from the Tiger's Claw to the Concordia to the Victory, the Boarder Worlds conflict and the Nephilim? Also, since we already know the story how about playing through these events from another perspective? Still have Blair, still have all the characters we know and love, but why not have a new character, or characters, you play as and fly different missions?

I think that's more of a wet dream than a possibility -- a game of that length would require a lot more money and time than anyone is willing to invest. Games are getting shorter, not six times longer. :)

It's also riskier than some new title - you risk turning off everyone who already 'knows what happened' or has already played the games you're basing the story on. It's a cool art-film idea for fans... but it's just too much of a niche concept for the mainstream.

(Now, a remake of any one game *does* seem possible...)

I'd like to point out that even now we get posters who play through space sims on keyboard- I did it that was just fine with StarLancer not even knowing what I was missing until this past week. The key is to not stress the joystick, I should hope.

Yes, but StarLancer did *not* do so well, supposedly for this very reason. *We*, the few-thousand-hardcore-fans, all know how to fly with a keyboard (and a controller and a wiimote and a pen knife) -- the problem is convincing the rest of the world.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
While I believe (or know) that joysticks are not very frequent in today's gamer housholds, I have trouble believing that it would be alienating so many if the game supported the joystick. Maybe there are many players like me, who just wait for an excuse to buy a joystick after all the long time.

Best would certainly be to offer the choice what to use: joystick+keyboard, mouse, controller. Unless it's too much work to implement so many control devices.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
We go through this every year, though, and everyone insists that their personal experience is that it doesn't matter... but the end of the argument is that it *did* matter to three high profile titles that all claim to have failed miserably for this exact reason (StarLancer, Tachyon and FreeSpace 2) -- and that this worried *Microsoft* so much that they launched a campaign to deliberately provoke their existing fans by making clear that Freelancer (the most expensive game ever made, at the time) did not even support joysticks. We're not talking about whether joysticphobia is reasonable, we're talking about what the industry thinks -- and it very clearly thinks that this is an issue.
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
Ah, I wasn't aware that the failure (so to speak) of these games was officially attributed to the lack of joysticks. If that's what the industry thinks, well, that's bad. But how can we convince them of the contrary? By buying lots of joysticks, I guess...;)

Do you know if it's actually a problem to develop a control scheme that works for every control type?
I read that for FL it was deliberately left out, so that people would see that a joystick is not necessary, not that it was too much work. And after all, my impression was that FL received more critique for leaving joystick support out than there were people "Hey cool, a space game I can play even though I do not have a joystick!". But maybe that's because people complaining are always louder.

Still, if space simulators are a niche market anyway, couldn't you assume that those people have no problem buying a joystick? Apparently, the industry does not think so but somehow I find it odd.
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
My idea was focused around reinventing the joystick. I think a new WC game should be able to support a joystick as well as a keyboard, mouse, etc. It just takes a little creative marketing to ensure that the end consumer realizes that utilizing a joystick is an option, not a requirement.

And yes, in response to several of the suggestions, I do think a joystick should be packaged with the game. Again, not a huge, overly complicated one - just a simple, sleek and innovative design that would be useful for more than one genre.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Do you know if it's actually a problem to develop a control scheme that works for every control type?
I read that for FL it was deliberately left out, so that people would see that a joystick is not necessary, not that it was too much work. And after all, my impression was that FL received more critique for leaving joystick support out than there were people "Hey cool, a space game I can play even though I do not have a joystick!". But maybe that's because people complaining are always louder.

Well, Microsoft felt it was a problem - that's all I know. I want to see a joystick game as strongly as anyone... but I just don't want to get everyone's hopes up by confusing my hopes with anything more solid.

The 'complaining' about the lack of joysticks in FreeLancer was completely intentional - Microsoft wanted the hardcore fans to make a big deal about the fact that it was a mouse game... so that everyone else would learn that the game didn't require a joystick.

(But no, our particular group is never a reasonable sample -- it's like STar Trek fans being angry about the Enterprise firing a torpedo from the wrong point on the ship... they'll yell and scream like it's the end of the universe, but the 99.999999% of people watching the show and providing the required advertising dollars don't care.)

Still, if space simulators are a niche market anyway, couldn't you assume that those people have no problem buying a joystick? Apparently, the industry does not think so but somehow I find it odd.

Space simulators aren't a market at all -- not in the sense that they would need to be to support a Wing Commander game from EA. A new Wing Commander needs to be sold to the whole PC gaming audience, not the niche group that in all honesty doesn't even support the developed-on-the-super-cheap Eastern European projects that occasionally trickle out today.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
And yes, in response to several of the suggestions, I do think a joystick should be packaged with the game. Again, not a huge, overly complicated one - just a simple, sleek and innovative design that would be useful for more than one genre.

I actually really like this idea, for several reasons:

* It fits with a current release model -- Rock Band, the EA quiz buzzer game, etc. all do this. Including a special *cheap* controller is big.

* It actually promotes the game. You can put the joystick on the cover and in the game. Imagine Wing Commander I, except it comes with the same joystick you see being used on the cover... and you plug it into your system/console/whatever and the stick on the screen in flight responds to what you're doing with it.

* It could be done on the cheap. We don't need a HOTAS system -- we need one of those $10 bargain bin USB plastic joysticks... in essence, the same thing that WC inspired manufacturers to pack in with new PCs in the 1990s.

* It encourages EA to develop an addon or followup title.

* Include it with *every* SKU, so the PC, Xbox, PS3, etc. users all have the same experience. You get over the joystick stigma *and* the controller stigma.

It's a fantastic concept and I wish I had the ear of someone who could pull it off.
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
* It could be done on the cheap. We don't need a HOTAS system -- we need one of those $10 bargain bin USB plastic joysticks... in essence, the same thing that WC inspired manufacturers to pack in with new PCs in the 1990s.

I think this element is key. A little certainly goes along way here. If it becomes too complicated, everyone is sure to lose.
 

Haliwali

Spaceman
Maybe now EVERY box. I mean there are those of us who actually own a stick already, or bought that game for the 360 that came with a stick. For the life of me I can't remember the name...
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Ace Combat 6 is a lot grander scale than I'm imagining here -- WCX would benefit from a *simple* joystick...
 

Tooner623

Spaceman
I can appreciate that AC6's stick is a tad on the elaborate side (and some of us have the stick for that AND the AC5 bundle for the PS2).

That said, it'd be nice if those of us WITH that bundle wouldn't be forced to buy ANOTHER bundled stick. The AC6 stick doesn't require the throttle to be attached, even. I'm also fairly sure that it sold pretty well. Between Rock Band, Guitar Hero, AC5, AC6, and so on... my room for accessories is getting a tad full :).

Unfortunately, I suppose that does run head-on into the problem of users not getting the same experience. Plenty would buy the game individually, and not even have a stick at home to play with.

If my option was naught but a bundled set, I'd throw down for it, I just wish I wouldn't have to.
 
Would it be possible to bundle a basic joystick with a future WC game that can be modified? For example you can buy a throttle and rudder controls (or something else fancy) as add ons?

Or if assuming that a WC game is released with a joystick and an add on or sequel is released for the game. What about bundling the joy stick add ons with the expansion/sequel? Or, at least offering a coupon that you can send in for the add ons.

Also, I'm just throwing ideas out there, but what about offering custom covers for a joystick? You could have a joystick that looks like it came from a Confederation fighter or one that came from a Kilrathi fighter and you just snap it on over the joystick.
 

Max Gene

Spaceman
3rd party groups make covers for consoles/controllers all the time- no reason it couldn't happen, but for a joystick, thats even more niche than the whining Trekkies.
 

Jumpstart

Rear Admiral
I suppose I'm an odd ball in that I always have preferred to play Space Combat Sims with my keyboard... I had a joystick back in the day, but I always preferred the keyboard.

Personally, I wouldn't care what the control method was just as long as we could actually get a new PC based Wing Commander game. It has always sadened me to see the genre shrink like it has, hopefully it can make a rebound in the future.
 

Lorien

Rear Admiral
Ace Combat 6 is a lot grander scale than I'm imagining here -- WCX would benefit from a *simple* joystick...

For those with Ace Combat 6, is there much griping between controller players and joystick players? If there's bad blood between them, it may scare off EA from allowing us to bring our own joystick. It certainly won't stop me from buying the game, but I'd like to get some more use out of my Wingman Interceptor.
 

Tooner623

Spaceman
I haven't heard any real griping. In all honesty, the joysticks for the Ace Combat games add tremendously to the "feel," but I'm not sure they make you into a "better" pilot than you would be with a controller. For those of us who started on PC flight games, it makes the transition a lot smoother, is all.

They don't add extra features, they just kind of remap the controller buttons to joystick bindings.
 
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