Fighter technology advancement WC1-WC2

Viper61

Spaceman
i was thumbing through the KS manual and was lookingat fighter stats (I think of myself as an Angel/Flint flyer who likes to know every possible detail about what I fly against :) ) and I noticed just how advanced the Jalthi was for it's time. What my question is, why don't the Kilrathi use the Jalthi any longer? Probably the same reason I don't get to fly the Raptor instead of a goddamned Epee, "they still are in service but we just don't see them". I like the way secret ops did things and actually showed Excaliburs and thunderbolts in action even though they were being phased out. BUt just think about it.

Jalthi:
mass: 22 tonnes
YPR: 5dps
Fore/ aft shields: 16cm
Front/rear armor: 20/10cm
right/left armor: 17cm

Compared to -

Ralari:
YPR: 2dps
Fore/ aft shields: 20/12cm
Front/rear armor: 20/9cm
right/left armor: 18cm

Broadsword:
YPR: 5dps
Fore/ aft shields: 18cm
Front/rear armor: 15cm
right/left armor: 13cm

Grikath:
YPR: 3dps
Fore/ aft shields: 15cm
Front/rear armor: 16cm
right/left armor: 14cm

Jalkehi:
YPR: 2dps
Fore/ aft shields: 15cm
Front/rear armor: 16cm
right/left armor: 14cm

So the Jalthi was 1) almost as strong as a WC1 era Destroyer, 2) just as strong as a WC3 era bomber but w/ afterburners 3) stronger than and able to fly rings around it's "more advanced by a decade" bretheren with a gun complement that could be changed like the Rapier model.

Anyway, it was just a thought I had while I was perusing the manual. Did anyone else notice this?

C-ya
 

Mekt-Hakkikt

Mpanty's bane
The Jalthi is awfully slow and it's rear protection is weak for such a big target and it mounted no turret. And don't forget that the Kilrathi bombers in WC2 have ABs too. Shooting Jalthis was quite easy in my eyes in WC1.
But I would love to fly one once.

The stats of the Ralari are ridiculous.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt
The Jalthi is awfully slow and it's rear protection is weak for such a big target and it mounted no turret. And don't forget that the Kilrathi bombers in WC2 have ABs too. Shooting Jalthis was quite easy in my eyes in WC1.
But I would love to fly one once.

The stats of the Ralari are ridiculous.

Kilrathi have bombers in WC2? The main thing I was drawing attention to was teh fact that the Kilrathi top of the line fighters hadn't improved that much in 10 years. Put a turret on the back of a Jalthi and you have a something akin to what the kilrathi have in WC2. I was just making the point that it would probably still be in service (like my venerable Raptor from WC1 should still be in service in WC2 ;) )

C-ya
 

dacis2

Spaceman
nearly every WC game has new ships, in the transition between WC4 and WCP and SO. the WC4 ships are still the most numerous, while the WCP and SO ships are only on a few newer ships. it's too expensive to upgrade the whole space force at once, and really dumb too
 

BlueClaw

Spaceman
They say in WC1 that Kilrathi outfitted the aft of their ships with weaker armour plating to make them face the enemy. Did this apply only to the Kilrathi capships, or to the fighters as well? Did this technique remain in the newer fighter and capship models?
 

TCSTigersClaw

Greek Special Forces B' Company "Naoussa" 2007-200
They still used them.They must have upgraded them etc.
I dunno exactly.No one knows.

I think the only new line of Kilrathi fighters and fleet is in Wc3
(except some Kilrathi ships from Wc2 and Armada).

Maybe Jalthi is newer than Jakelhi.:D
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Originally posted by BattleDog
The WC4 ships in SO get pasted, the armor on them makes them a death trap to a modern pilot.

Yeah, the increase in armor strength makes the Excalibur look like a latter-day Epee (paper thin armor but kickass guns). If the Excalibur's armor strength could be doubled without any loss in speed or agility, then it would be very nearly a match for the Black Panther.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by BlueClaw
They say in WC1 that Kilrathi outfitted the aft of their ships with weaker armour plating to make them face the enemy. Did this apply only to the Kilrathi capships, or to the fighters as well? Did this technique remain in the newer fighter and capship models?
No... that is a rumour going around the Confed space force. As far as we know, there is no reason to suspect this was indeed the case, especially since, as Iceman says, "there is no reason to suspect Kilrathi captains of cowardice".

As for the Jalkehi and Jalthi, you have sorta answered your own question, Viper. The Jalthi does not have a turret, the Jalkehi does. And considering that all of the Jalthi's guns and armour was still useless if a Hornet got on its tail, I would say that the Jalkehi's turret makes it superior. It sure is a pain if you're in a Ferret :p.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Well, the *reason* for it is a rumor... the actual armor strengths being lower in the rear is a fact.
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
I think the reason would be more like how they fought their previous wars. In Fleet Action I remember some of the Kilrathi contemplating the fact that they had won with simple Blitzkrieg style attacks, worst case scenerios never causing indepth tactical thought... and have never been in a war as long as the ones with the Terrans.

So... if you're used to rushing in guns blazing, you'd strip the aft armor and thicken up the front and sides, wouldn't you? And now they are facing these "dishonorable" Terrans who exploit weekness in designs, and flank to Kilrah to blow up unfinished carriers... ohh my.
 

Ladiesman^

Spaceman
Originally posted by dacis2
nearly every WC game has new ships, in the transition between WC4 and WCP and SO. the WC4 ships are still the most numerous, while the WCP and SO ships are only on a few newer ships. it's too expensive to upgrade the whole space force at once, and really dumb too

One thing I never got was Hellcats, Arrows and Longbows were supposed to be older than Scimitars and Rapiers and such, and that's beleivable in WC3. Yet in WC4 when your on this, what they imply to be a nice shiny new carrier....you've still got the old fighters....I suppose it could just be coincidence, and there are just ALOT of them around.

At least other Confed carriers had the Bearcats.
 

TC

SubCrid
You don't go around replacing all of your fighters when the military budgets been horrifically cut...The Lexington *isn't* shiney and new, it's a refit carrier. It's nice, but not shiney or new.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Originally posted by Ladiesman^


One thing I never got was Hellcats, Arrows and Longbows were supposed to be older than Scimitars and Rapiers and such, and that's beleivable in WC3. Yet in WC4 when your on this, what they imply to be a nice shiny new carrier....you've still got the old fighters....I suppose it could just be coincidence, and there are just ALOT of them around.

At least other Confed carriers had the Bearcats.

Um.. Lady Lex was a burnt-out hulk by the end of Fleet Action, but one that was recycled because they thought it'd be cheaper than building a new hull - which they were wrong about. :D It's not that shiny and new (unlike the Midway of WCP). Beyond that, WC4 takes place... two years after WC3? That's not even enough time to properly test a new fighter to get all the bugs out, much less replace all of your fighter force. So you're using Hellcats, Thunderbolts, and the like on your fleet carrier.

Sure, there were EXPERIMENTAL fighters like the Bearcat kicking around - at the testing grounds which you raided for their fighters. There was also the Dragon, which has been in development for some time to judge by the fact that the Black Lance was NOT an overnight development but one that took some years to get to the point where they could get ready to take things over. But it must be emphasized that the Bearcat and Dragon were in development for some years, probably before the Kilrathi war ended - and the former was still being tested.

Notice that WC1: SM1 and SM2 didn't bring in all-new fighters? They took place within the year-long period after the end of the Vega campaign. Ditto WC2:SO1 and SO2 taking place within a year of the end of the main game... even though you see the Crossbow and the Morningstar, they're both in the middle of testing as well.

WCP takes place about 10 years after the end of WC4, so it only makes sense that many of the front-line fighters have been replaced.
 

TC

SubCrid
Originally posted by Haesslich

WCP takes place about 10 years after the end of WC4, so it only makes sense that many of the front-line fighters have been replaced.

They haven't been though. That's the point. The Midway has shiney new fighters. Most of Confed, however, has things like Excaliburs and Thunderbolts as seen in Secret Ops, apparantly.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Originally posted by TC


They haven't been though. That's the point. The Midway has shiney new fighters. Most of Confed, however, has things like Excaliburs and Thunderbolts as seen in Secret Ops, apparantly.

I said 'many' and not 'all'. The Midway is a front-line carrier, so it makes sense that she gets the new toys. There are other carriers which also pack them, since our Wolfpack squadron gets their Vampires from a transfer. But we also get a lot of people flying the older craft too.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Originally posted by Ladiesman^


One thing I never got was Hellcats, Arrows and Longbows were supposed to be older than Scimitars and Rapiers and such, and that's beleivable in WC3. Yet in WC4 when your on this, what they imply to be a nice shiny new carrier....you've still got the old fighters....I suppose it could just be coincidence, and there are just ALOT of them around.

At least other Confed carriers had the Bearcats.

I was under the impression that the fighters in WC3 were "relatively" new and the capships are the ones that are older than their WC2 bretheren. Doesn't take many resources to pump out production line fighters, takes quite a bit to do so for Cap ships. Besides if the fighters in WC3 were older than WC2 fighters, why would you have a fighters in reserve that were overall faster, better armed, better sheilded, and better armored? IIRC, the fighters aren't old, the capships are.

C-ya
 

TC

SubCrid
Many of them are newer variants or upgrades or rather old fighters. We see many of the Wing Commander 3 fighters in Wing Commander Academy, which takes place before and during Wing Commander 1.
 

BattleDog

Spaceman
They're pretty heavy upgrades though, when you consider that armor is ten times thicker in WC3 than in WC2. That, or as I suspect they moved the decimal point in WC3.
 
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