Blair a Border Worlder?

Aeronautico

Rear Admiral
I was wondering...is Blair a Border Worlds citizen? According to the CIC universe maps, his home system, Nephele, is a Border Worlds territory. I do not know if this is true due to some of the discrepancies in the CIC, and I wish to know which systems are confirmed to be aligned to the Border Worlds. Can someone answer this question for me?
 
Hello,
Nephele is, indeed, listed as a member of the Union of Border Worlds on Wing Commander Prophecy's Wing Commander Universe map... *but* that map is dated 2681 - we don't know what Nephele's status was in 2673 (when the UBW was formed).

More to the point, though, it was unquestionably part of the Confederation in the 2630s when Blair was born.
 
If I remember Correctly from WC4 there is a Cut Scene Right after the one where Barbra Miles Interviews Tolwyn, where Maniac, Vagabond and Blair are discussing the situation and Vagabond Comments to Blair, "Your Home's In Nephele Right? Real Close to the Border Worlds what do you think of all this?"

Even so I have to agree with Loaf, there's not alot of information on systems Allegiances in the 2670s let alone back when Blair was born in the 30s.
 
Even so I have to agree with Loaf, there's not alot of information on systems Allegiances in the 2670s let alone back when Blair was born in the 30s.

That isn't quite true - as LOAF pointed out, we know that when Blair was born it WAS part of the Confederation, inferring directly that Blair is a member of the Confederation.

If the planet later changes hands to the UBW, we have no idea what would/should happen.

I remember that quote listed above though, and I'm inclined to say that it means that Nephele hasn't changed sides YET as of whatever time that conversation occured.
 
Some of the dialogue is a little confusing though. Throughout WCP, we hear of characters "signing on" with Confed. Now obviously the armed forces of Confed is the intended meaning. The phrase still seams a little out of place. If I enlist in the service, it would be a little weird to say that I signed on with the United States. The phrase would be even weirder if I received an appointment to attend the military or naval academy.
 
Some of the dialogue is a little confusing though. Throughout WCP, we hear of characters "signing on" with Confed. Now obviously the armed forces of Confed is the intended meaning. The phrase still seams a little out of place. If I enlist in the service, it would be a little weird to say that I signed on with the United States. The phrase would be even weirder if I received an appointment to attend the military or naval academy.

I'm not sure this is strange at all - especially in a WCP context. Remember, by WCP the Border Worlds, the Kilrathi Clans, the Landreich Colonies, the Grovsnor Colonies and I believe the Firekkans are all independent states.

However, throughout their history various members/worlds of each of these independent states have served with and as a part of Confed. So 'signing on' could mean that they are re-attaching themselves to Confed for the duration of the conflict, or completely reassociating themselves with the Confederation.

At any rate, I would not be at all surprised if a large number of people did this during the Nephilim Conflict, nor that the term was 'signing on' instead of enlisting - especially given that a large number of the people 'signing on' probably already had a history of service with the Confederation.
 
However, throughout their history various members/worlds of each of these independent states have served with and as a part of Confed. So 'signing on' could mean that they are re-attaching themselves to Confed for the duration of the conflict, or completely reassociating themselves with the Confederation.

At any rate, I would not be at all surprised if a large number of people did this during the Nephilim Conflict, nor that the term was 'signing on' instead of enlisting - especially given that a large number of the people 'signing on' probably already had a history of service with the Confederation.

Firekka aside though, none of these other entities were part of the Confederation officially. I believe they fell into the "Terran Alliance" organization. The Alliance used a Star-Sword patch as seen in WC3, and arguably on the hulls of WC1/2 ships.

The context as used in Prophecy suggested personal enlistment into the Confed Armed Forces.
 
Firekka aside though, none of these other entities were part of the Confederation officially. I believe they fell into the "Terran Alliance" organization. The Alliance used a Star-Sword patch as seen in WC3, and arguably on the hulls of WC1/2 ships.

The context as used in Prophecy suggested personal enlistment into the Confed Armed Forces.

Uh...did you read what you just wrote? Individuals from places not aligned with (as you say) the Confederation are spoken of in a context suggesting personal enlistment into the Confed Armed Forces. What exactly is wrong with this statement?

Also some of your statement is incorrect - the UBW did belong to the Confederation in that they acted under it's authority during wartime, and the Landreich Colonies were originally founded as Confederation colonies - in fact, at least once in history (Battle of Terra Era) we see Confederation personal joining the Landreich only to come back to Confederation service again. Firekka also had a representative in the Confederation Government itself, also disproving your point. In fact they are known to have withdrawn from the Confederation: not the Alliance, the Confederation.

This curious statement you've uncovered - that in fact makes perfect sense, as you've proven quite nicely - could be an indication that some people who left for Landreich have come back to Confed, possibly as a result of the Black Lance affair being concluded, like Kevin or Jason. Or Vance, though I suppose he's really dead? I thought for some reason he wasn't.
 
Uh...did you read what you just wrote? Individuals from places not aligned with (as you say) the Confederation are spoken of in a context suggesting personal enlistment into the Confed Armed Forces. What exactly is wrong with this statement?

Yes I did read what you wrote. The whole topic is just a bit confusing for my fragile, little mind. Pardon me if I am trying to sort it out in writing.

As for making points...I am not in some sort of competition with you over who has the greater amount of Wing Commander knowledge. The statement "signed on," just seems a little odd- I thought I would generate a little conversation on it.

Also some of your statement is incorrect - the UBW did belong to the Confederation in that they acted under it's authority during wartime, and the Landreich Colonies were originally founded as Confederation colonies - in fact, at least once in history (Battle of Terra Era) we see Confederation personal joining the Landreich only to come back to Confederation service again. Firekka also had a representative in the Confederation Government itself, also disproving your point. In fact they are known to have withdrawn from the Confederation: not the Alliance, the Confederation.

All very true. So if the Landreich and Firekka Alliance are so affiliated with Confed, which powers make up the so-called Terran Alliance?
 
Yes I did read what you wrote. The whole topic is just a bit confusing for my fragile, little mind. Pardon me if I am trying to sort it out in writing.

I asked if you read what you wrote - it was what you wrote that proved you wrong, not anything I had to say.

The statement "signed on," just seems a little odd- I thought I would generate a little conversation on it.

I think it's the perfect situation to describe the uniquness of the circumstances. Let's take a look at the political make up of the galaxy at the moment.

Union of the Border Worlds - coalition of planets not aligned with the Confederation or under it's authority, nor a part of the Terran Alliance, however at peace with and with the potential to be allied with the Confederation.

Landreich Colonies - coalition of planets not aligned with the Confederation or under it's authority, nor a part of the Terran Alliance, however at peace with the Confederation, but unlikely to ever be allied with it in the future.

Firekka - coalition of planets? (I believe they had at least one colony? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) that was once a part of the Confederation (and thus the Alliance). Currently Independent with strong historical ties to the Confederation, potential Ally.

Kilrathi Clans - surviving members of the Kilrathi race, at peace with the Confederation, never a part of the Alliance or the Confederation, future status unknown.

Grovsnor Colonies - I honestly have no idea what their affiliation is or was, only that they are separate from the Confederation. I believe you do aide them in the course of the WC games, so they are possibly a member of the alliance.

Now, a citizen not belonging to anyone of these factions can belong to the Confederation - but is not necessarily a part of the Space Forces. For example, a person born on Earth has Confederation Citizenship and a vote in the Confederation Governmental Process. This does not mean however, that they have enlisted. In that case you would say that they 'enlisted' in the Confederation Space Forces.

You would not say that they 'signed on' with the Confederation, because saying 'signed on' implies a change in affiliation or faction. Saying 'signed on' implies that one has left it's previous member nation to join the Confederation - and does not necessarily imply that it is part of the military. An example. Firekka (The entire planet/planets) could have joined back with the Confederation when learning of the Nephilim threat. This would make some sense since the birds tend to be, ahem, a bit 'flighty' if you'll pardon the pun when it comes to who they are aligned to.

But you would not say that a member of Firekka 'enlisted' in the Confederation Space Forces because they had not previously been a part of the Confederation, and I would be willing to bet there is probably a provision in the Confederation that only allows it's members to enlist in the Armed Forces.

In this context, the context of a member NOT from a Confederation aligned planet/system/government, joining the Confederation and also joining the Confederation military, 'signed on' is the perfect time.
 
Just a little note, before you guys get too deep into the sematics of "signing on" :). Two hundred years ago, just the phrase "sign on" would not have been understood by anyone - it literally didn't exist. I want to point this out because the main argument here seems to be that it's "weird" to say "sign on with Confed" when it means enlisting in the military. Yes, it's weird to say it in 2009 - it might be perfectly reasonable in the 27th century, however. So yes, it could be that the phrase is used to literally mean joining another nation... or it could be that in the 27th century, "Confed" is widely used as shorthand for the Confederation's armed forces. We don't know either way.

...Come to think of it, even today, FBI employees are sometimes referred to as the "feds". I can certainly imagine someone talking about signing on with the feds, without implying that he's changing national allegiance to the United States :).
 
I always thought that Blair was from Earth. Then again, I only played the three Kilrathi games (and Standoff, which does not feature Blair) and watched the WCA cartoon when I was younger.
 
I always thought that Blair was from Earth. Then again, I only played the three Kilrathi games (and Standoff, which does not feature Blair) and watched the WCA cartoon when I was younger.

WC1 and WC3 give different origins for Maniac's origin too, WC1 claims he is from a colony, and WC3 says he is from earth, but does not go into detail. But maniac is fully human(as opposed to payback and several other unnamed pilots from WCA), so he would be referred to as an "earthling" anyway.
 
All very true. So if the Landreich and Firekka Alliance are so affiliated with Confed, which powers make up the so-called Terran Alliance?

It's not clear exactly what forms the Terran Alliance; it's the equivalent of what you would have called the United Nations in 1944 -- a group of nations/races allied in the goal of defeating the Kilrathi. The term only shows up in Wing Commander Armada and in the Andropolos timeline.

Union of the Border Worlds - coalition of planets not aligned with the Confederation or under it's authority, nor a part of the Terran Alliance, however at peace with and with the potential to be allied with the Confederation.

The Union of Border Worlds and the 'Terran Alliance' wouldn't exist at the same time; the Union came into being in 2673--before that point, their worlds were part of the Terran Confederation.

Landreich Colonies - coalition of planets not aligned with the Confederation or under it's authority, nor a part of the Terran Alliance, however at peace with the Confederation, but unlikely to ever be allied with it in the future.

The proper name for the nation is the Free Republic of the Landreich; their independence was recognized in 2652, so it's certainly possible that the were part of the Alliance (they were both fighting the Kilrathi, they received Confederation surplus and of course ultimately assisted Confed at the Battle of Earth... and had the option of sending representatives to the 2668 armistice signing.

Firekka - coalition of planets? (I believe they had at least one colony? Someone correct me if I'm wrong) that was once a part of the Confederation (and thus the Alliance). Currently Independent with strong historical ties to the Confederation, potential Ally.

They're the "Firekkan Planetary Alliance"; the one colony system was settled after the war and after Wing Commander IV (T'kirsa, in 2675). They were a former member of the Confederation, but I don't think there are strong ties anymore - the feeling seems to be that the Confederation left them out to dry repeatedly.

Kilrathi Clans - surviving members of the Kilrathi race, at peace with the Confederation, never a part of the Alliance or the Confederation, future status unknown.

The government recognized by the Confederation is Chancellor Melek's "Kilrathi Assembly of Clans"; in reality, there's a violent five-party civil war being fought in the former Empire.

Grovsnor Colonies - I honestly have no idea what their affiliation is or was, only that they are separate from the Confederation. I believe you do aide them in the course of the WC games, so they are possibly a member of the alliance.

"Grovsnor Colonies" is simply a one-off reference in Fleet Action to another group that is in a similar position to the Landreich (someone notes that the Landreich and the Grovsnor Colonies didn't send representatives to the armistice signing).

I wonder, where does the Pilgrims and Blair's Pilgrim heritage fit into this Border Worlds issue?

It doesn't; Nephele was not a member of the Pilgrim Alliance. Rather, it was the home (at the time of his birth) of his father, Arnold. His Pilgrim heritage (genetic or otherwise) comes from his mother, Devi Soulsong, who was from Peron (Luyten). In general, the former 'Pilgrim' worlds are much closer to the core than systems that became the Border Worlds.

(Now, behind the screens, the first draft of the movie concept had 'Border Worlders' as the group with the special abilities instead of the Pilgrims.)

WC1 and WC3 give different origins for Maniac's origin too, WC1 claims he is from a colony, and WC3 says he is from earth, but does not go into detail. But maniac is fully human(as opposed to payback and several other unnamed pilots from WCA), so he would be referred to as an "earthling" anyway.

It has never really been clear what Payback and company are -- some alien race, humans who grew up under some kind of different star or what.

My take would be that the 'homeworld' fields in Wing Commander III and IV (in Victory Streak and the wingman selection, respectively) refer to the planet the character currently lives on, not where they were born (the big giveaway is Flint, who Victory Streak lists as Earth instead of Locanda; I could believe Chris McCubbin would forget Maniac's story about 'Leto' from Claw Marks, but not that he'd forget how important Flint's birth world is to WC3).

Blair was born on Nephele and moved to Peron at a very young age (he was there for the siege that killed his parents). He is adopted by his aunt and goes back to Nephele for most of his childhood. As an adult, though, he had a home on Earth - he uses a trip home there as a cover for his disappearance in one of the Special Operations stories and then he returns there at the end of Wing Commander III... after that, he moves back to Nephele to hide (before WCIV).

No question that Maniac was born on Leto, in the Proxima system... but he seems to make his home on Earth (in WC3) and then Mars (in WC4) as an adult.
 
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