does anyone else think that tolwyn was right with what he said about humanity having to protect itself but wrong with how he went about it? I mean the Black Lance was cool except the bioweapons and the GE program.. but the Dragon was on kickass fighter. And attacking the border worlds was wrong but then the bugs showed up and we were prepared with the midway and all those cool kickass fighters... if we were still flying hellcats we would have lost... if only he had just made an open effort to protect humanity rather than start a war.... then he might have been a hero...
Admiral Tolwyn...
- Thread starter Bellend
- Start date
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
The problem is, though, humanity protecting itself, to him, was intimately linked to the idea that the weaker members of humanity should be tossed aside, killed like any weed you'd find in a garden.
From his viewpoint, without the weak removed from society, humanity was doomed to failure. Ditto without warfare to create more efficient methods of distruction. Like Blair noted in the novel, the very things which Tolwyn thought were faults are what make us human (or something to that effect... I forget the exact words).
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
From his viewpoint, without the weak removed from society, humanity was doomed to failure. Ditto without warfare to create more efficient methods of distruction. Like Blair noted in the novel, the very things which Tolwyn thought were faults are what make us human (or something to that effect... I forget the exact words).
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
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Death: "the weaker members of humanity should be tossed aside, killed like any weed you'd find in a garden." The irony here is that the common weed is more survivable than most other plants. It grows faster & almost anywhere - hence the BL's defeat at the hands of regular humans.
A
AzrialX
Guest
Admiral Tolwyn...Admirial Tolwyn...is it just me or did the man, not Malcom McDowlle (pardon for spelling), read, live, and breath "Mein Kamph".
I mean his theory on the continuation of the specices was ripped off from Hitler and well isn't that increadable "irony". His struggle ended about the same...save Tolwyn, the slimy devil, hung himself instead of suicide capsule like his mentor...
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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
I mean his theory on the continuation of the specices was ripped off from Hitler and well isn't that increadable "irony". His struggle ended about the same...save Tolwyn, the slimy devil, hung himself instead of suicide capsule like his mentor...
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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
Slimy devil?
Even though all great things Tolwyn did don't justify what he did at the end, I still prefer to think about him as Confeds greates hero. And who cares from where it was riped off? It made one hell of a story!
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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
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One thing I noticed about Tolwyn is his personality is painted much differently in the books as to the games. In the books (mainly Fleet Action and End Run) he is more of a war hero, as for the games he is shown just as Blair's enemy.
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Peace cannot be kept by force, it must be achieved through understanding.
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Peace cannot be kept by force, it must be achieved through understanding.
Tolwyn is by far the most complex character in the WC universe. I frankly was very disappointed when he was made to be an arch villan. Frankly, I would have rather seen him killed in the Battle for Terra in the vain of say...Horatio Nelson then to see him degenerate so. He was the little of Patton, A little of MacArthur, a little Hasley, some Powell, some Curtis LeMay, etc. when he was at his apex. He was truely a great commander who broke under the stain of 35 years of war and so many years of very stressful commnad. The signs were there after the war that he had PTS but for some reason they were ignored. I believe Jason B saw them in False Colors. Tolwyn was such a hero that he started believing his own PR and well if he had been acccorded the Triumph that he deserved and given some very well earned R & R perhaps some medical attention that he needed things would have bee different. I prefer to remember him as he was in Fleet Action and when I see the picture of him sitting in his command chair of the V. leading the attack on the BWS in one of the movie sequences of WC IV I tend more to think of him leading the Fleet in the Battle for Terra. That is the way I wish to remember him. Tolwyn so vividly shows us what prolonged protracted conflict can do to the human psyche and the dire consequences brought of all.
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Founder of the Blacklance HQ
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Founder of the Blacklance HQ
Isn't it strange that some of our greatest military leaders are on the excentric side. Patton, MacArthur and LeMay are some examples. These men seemed to thrive on war and in it's absence (war) they suffered.
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You might be a redneck if...More than one living relative is named after a Southern Civil War general.
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You might be a redneck if...More than one living relative is named after a Southern Civil War general.
A
AzrialX
Guest
You know I'm involved with the play "A Few Good Men" which I'm sure you all saw the movie. The more I look at it the more I see the similarities in the inner workings of Towlyn and the Charaters Lt Comm. Kendrick, and Col. Jessep...in the play and movie they were fanatical about the military and what it ment to be apart of that military...If you have a problem with a soldier that's below your standards, make sure that he shapes up at all costs and if he doesn't kill him...but in Towlyns case if you have a sick sheep in the flock...cull the flock...kill the more than the sick one to save the rest of the flock...I think he was a hero before became an Admiral...but all the power that comes with Admiral went to his head and made him a fanatical mad man...I liked the character before WC IV, and I would have liked to see him die a warriors death defending earth, but in the end he died a traitor....
Sorry that's just how I see it...
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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
Sorry that's just how I see it...
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Call me a Pleb, you die!!! Got it fly boy?!?
Well do ya!?! Well punk!?! Because you know maybe, just maybe, when I'm flyin on your wing...my auto track could just mistake you for the Roach you are...got that...Ace!?! Sure you do...wouldn't want to get that nice squad jacket all mussed up now would we..?
Tolwyn didn't go crazy because he was an Admiral. All the years of war did that to him. He wanted to defend the Confederation, at all cost and he forgot what he was fighting for (I belive something like that was said in AS)
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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
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Uh excuse me Mr.Cat, sir, but would you mind like ceasing fire for a little while so we can barbecue your god-ugly asses? Todd "Maniac" Marshall Wing Commander Pilgrim Stars
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
Specifically, a lot of what drove Tolwyn over the edge was the "false peace" before the Battle of Terra, where he and pretty much every other senior military person said it wouldn't work (and were proven right, at a hell of a cost). To him, the civilian government betrayed the Confederation. Read the novel version of the final major scene in WC4 between Blair and Tolwyn in the Great Assembly.
Losing the Behemoth, and his one last chance (in his view) to save the Confederation, didn't help matters any. Don't even need the novel of WC3 to see that. Just watch him in the scenes related to the Behemoth, specifically the look in his eyes (MacDowell is be one of the best actors currently alive, IMO... even saddled with stinkers like Star Trek: Generations
)
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
Losing the Behemoth, and his one last chance (in his view) to save the Confederation, didn't help matters any. Don't even need the novel of WC3 to see that. Just watch him in the scenes related to the Behemoth, specifically the look in his eyes (MacDowell is be one of the best actors currently alive, IMO... even saddled with stinkers like Star Trek: Generations
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
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Hey Sney,
I am still working on the story. When I outlined it I came to a point to where the story could branch three different ways so now I have got to choose which way I want to go.
Also I am finalizing a character bio that I like to use in RPG. I have managed to get a nice draft finished.
I am still working on the story. When I outlined it I came to a point to where the story could branch three different ways so now I have got to choose which way I want to go.
Also I am finalizing a character bio that I like to use in RPG. I have managed to get a nice draft finished.
A
AzrialX
Guest
What "Faulse Peace"??? Kats that were rebuilding thier homeworld were being slaged left and right by this Secret Black Lance group...not to mention inoccent boarder worlders being blamed for the incursions...as far as I know, and I'm going from WC4 the game, Towlyn is the one who created the "Faulse Peace"...but you know that's just me...
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
Actually, aside from Melek's convoy, we don't know what the BL was doing to the kats.
In any case, I wasn't referring to WC4, but events in the WC novel Fleet Action around 2668, where the Kilrathi, their supply lines being raped by Confed's behind-the-lines raids, sued for peace only for long enough to complete the construction of their Hakaga-class supercarriers, which they intended to use to conclude the war with Confed once and for all, and eliminate humanity.
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
In any case, I wasn't referring to WC4, but events in the WC novel Fleet Action around 2668, where the Kilrathi, their supply lines being raped by Confed's behind-the-lines raids, sued for peace only for long enough to complete the construction of their Hakaga-class supercarriers, which they intended to use to conclude the war with Confed once and for all, and eliminate humanity.
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
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