Pedro
Admiral
Thanks!
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WC4 Remake
- Thread starter Pedro
- Start date
Thanks!
Just wanna tell you guys, you did something very special here. Very impressive so far.
When I watched the trailers a few months ago it made me want to play the whole WC series again.
Looking forward to seeing/hearing[or whatever] the next step of your project here.
Again, very impressive.
When I watched the trailers a few months ago it made me want to play the whole WC series again.
Looking forward to seeing/hearing[or whatever] the next step of your project here.
Again, very impressive.
I'm new here to CIC, I've been wanting to join for a while, just put it off, I guess. Really nice to now finally connect with other WC fans and fanatics as myself. I look forward to this project and hope it succeeds or maybe bring some heart, nostalgia, and overall joy, and perhaps encourage any new young or old players who never got the chance to experience. such an epic (possibly life shaping game "as was for me ") to many other potential players at least if not just for the beloved fans. Thank you and I will look forward to this "venture." Good Luck, Dismissed! kidding....
linkjoy123
Chief Petty Officer
How is the project coming along, any updates?
Pedro
Admiral
There's progress in two areas, hopefully we will have updates soon.
That said life has been pretty hectic for me at home and at work so it's been slow going since the demo. ODVS is in a similar position.
I'm treating this as a long term project, working on it when I have the time so progress has always been stops and starts and will continue to be the case; a lot won't happen and then it's all at once. The quiet periods are normal
Hopefully work will return to normal in a couple of months and I can find some real time for the project.The birthday reminded me that I wanted to try out demo0.3, so I did that. Overall, I was impressed by the improvements already and my feedback for the comms is all positive, it really feels exactly like that 90s PC game again in a nicer modern paint.
👍 flying with my Gladiator NXT EVO (Std Grip) and my TWCS (a throttle from Thrustmaster) was, again, really fun. It feels great although, as noted last time, weirdly slow. After mostly playing Freespace and Tie-Fighter in the last 15 years, it certainly remains strange to think about how slow WC actually was and I went back for a sanity check... and the results are mixed, because the original does indeed feel faster. We argued about that last time already, as you stated that model sizes and speeds should be identical. I have started to wonder if the classic's framerate is actually part of the issue, as the smooth modern FPS gives the eye a much clearer sense of speed than the old game ever did. Anyway, both praise and criticism from last time have remained the same.
👍 the stardust feels less agressive in this new build, or at least renders better now. When I played demo0.1 I was on 1920x1080 and I did complain about it in the context of the whole slow-debate, while demo0.3 was played in 4k now and if you did not tweak anything at all, you might want to look at the code and its interaction with resolution. Anyway, its much better in demo0.3 without knowing the cause.
👍 I wonder if AI tweaks were made, as I have noticed a lot less erratic turns and hovering on the spot. If yes, good for you, if no than my flightstyle seems to have changed a bit. Overall, they enemy still feels like its often continuing too long on a straight line to give you an angle. WC was always every good at making the enemy seem to evade you in a cinematic but not really effective way, avoiding the endless circle of real dogfighting without the AI sleeping on the stick.
👎 while most of my UI problems from last time were fixed, I ran into new ones:
1.) When I first booted the game using the flag in the installer (the game's first run on this PC), it defaulted to VSync, my desktop resolution (3840x2160) something akin to fullscreen (I did not check if it was a true one or a borderless one) and using German language, as I am strickend with a German-variant Windows. Aside from the language, that is totally fine. I played a round, started tweaking the controls but did not save and exited the game instead. When I booted up the game for the second time, it opened in a 1440x900 window and I have no idea why.
2.) There are still issues with input devices or with usability. While playing with both the Gladiator NXT and the TWCS is fine and configuring worked flawlessly for most buttons, others completely failed to have an effect. I have attached an example. I wonder if it might be something stupid like the button for next target being registered twice which in the majority of cases will look like not switching to a target, because you switch back and forth quickly (and one seldom has more than two in view in the demo).
3.) The German ButtonConfig UI is weird, what is Wechsel supposed to mean? I interpret this as a secondary binding, for which alternativ similar to the English alternative would be more appropriate. If the english word is switch here, then someone needs to explain to me what the hell this does 😉
👍 there were absolutely no hiccups, framedrops or whatever this time. However, I am also on an NVidia RTX 3080 now, so take that with a grain of salt
OVERALL, GREAT TO SEE PROGRESS!
My thanks to the team.
👍 flying with my Gladiator NXT EVO (Std Grip) and my TWCS (a throttle from Thrustmaster) was, again, really fun. It feels great although, as noted last time, weirdly slow. After mostly playing Freespace and Tie-Fighter in the last 15 years, it certainly remains strange to think about how slow WC actually was and I went back for a sanity check... and the results are mixed, because the original does indeed feel faster. We argued about that last time already, as you stated that model sizes and speeds should be identical. I have started to wonder if the classic's framerate is actually part of the issue, as the smooth modern FPS gives the eye a much clearer sense of speed than the old game ever did. Anyway, both praise and criticism from last time have remained the same.
👍 the stardust feels less agressive in this new build, or at least renders better now. When I played demo0.1 I was on 1920x1080 and I did complain about it in the context of the whole slow-debate, while demo0.3 was played in 4k now and if you did not tweak anything at all, you might want to look at the code and its interaction with resolution. Anyway, its much better in demo0.3 without knowing the cause.
👍 I wonder if AI tweaks were made, as I have noticed a lot less erratic turns and hovering on the spot. If yes, good for you, if no than my flightstyle seems to have changed a bit. Overall, they enemy still feels like its often continuing too long on a straight line to give you an angle. WC was always every good at making the enemy seem to evade you in a cinematic but not really effective way, avoiding the endless circle of real dogfighting without the AI sleeping on the stick.
👎 while most of my UI problems from last time were fixed, I ran into new ones:
1.) When I first booted the game using the flag in the installer (the game's first run on this PC), it defaulted to VSync, my desktop resolution (3840x2160) something akin to fullscreen (I did not check if it was a true one or a borderless one) and using German language, as I am strickend with a German-variant Windows. Aside from the language, that is totally fine. I played a round, started tweaking the controls but did not save and exited the game instead. When I booted up the game for the second time, it opened in a 1440x900 window and I have no idea why.
2.) There are still issues with input devices or with usability. While playing with both the Gladiator NXT and the TWCS is fine and configuring worked flawlessly for most buttons, others completely failed to have an effect. I have attached an example. I wonder if it might be something stupid like the button for next target being registered twice which in the majority of cases will look like not switching to a target, because you switch back and forth quickly (and one seldom has more than two in view in the demo).
3.) The German ButtonConfig UI is weird, what is Wechsel supposed to mean? I interpret this as a secondary binding, for which alternativ similar to the English alternative would be more appropriate. If the english word is switch here, then someone needs to explain to me what the hell this does 😉
👍 there were absolutely no hiccups, framedrops or whatever this time. However, I am also on an NVidia RTX 3080 now, so take that with a grain of salt
OVERALL, GREAT TO SEE PROGRESS!
My thanks to the team.
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DefianceIndustries
Rear Admiral
We still need to do some balancing in the gameplay for sure. I'd like to get the first series done, then use it to do balance and FX passes. But we'll have to work on getting the assets in place to support it and, as the video states, that requires a bunch of new feature builds (ie. tiling landscapes, atmo flight model, particle FX for atmo, AI improvements) to support it. I appreciate your feedback though! keep it coming!
Now if you'll excuse me, I must return to the land of building cargos for Clarksons....
Now if you'll excuse me, I must return to the land of building cargos for Clarksons....
Pedro
Admiral
I should note that this was a *very* minor patch and represents the game from months ago.
I had hoped to release a more recent version but just ran out of time.
There is some code which checks your desktop resolution after loading to avoid ODVS' crazy scaling which reports a double sized window initially. Not sure why it would be resizing for you.
I can't see the attached example for the button issues. If you look at the buttons in USB game controllers what value are the ones not responding in the game? Every joystick is a new nightmare, there's no consistency between manufacturers so we're reliant on this kind of information (screenshots of the game controllers window are the most helpful).
As the readme says you can run the game with -eng to force english.
Languages other than English are are a work in progress, MrCoffee our audio guy handles the german translations. If you'd be willing to screenshot and highlight text that needs changing I can ask him to update it.
I had hoped to release a more recent version but just ran out of time.
There is some code which checks your desktop resolution after loading to avoid ODVS' crazy scaling which reports a double sized window initially. Not sure why it would be resizing for you.
I can't see the attached example for the button issues. If you look at the buttons in USB game controllers what value are the ones not responding in the game? Every joystick is a new nightmare, there's no consistency between manufacturers so we're reliant on this kind of information (screenshots of the game controllers window are the most helpful).
As the readme says you can run the game with -eng to force english.
Languages other than English are are a work in progress, MrCoffee our audio guy handles the german translations. If you'd be willing to screenshot and highlight text that needs changing I can ask him to update it.
I am aware. I just want to raise the question if this is the correct design decision. Why not display a simple dropdown upon the first launch with all supported languages, DEFAULTING to the OS' one? If you are still having an internal TODO list, might I humbly suggest putting a work item there?
On a side-note, I fail to see why 🤔 this has not become an enforced standard on the consoles by now, especially on the Sony machines. Sony first-party games have been following this principle for a decade now and it has gotten only more important with their recent push for accessibilty, yet when my wife wants to play Hogwards Legacy on our PS5, we have to switch the entire system to German in order to get the German variant.
No ingame option exists and it being a console, no launch parameter is accessible. The company clearly wants this. The company has the ability to push this onto every developer if willing and its not that big of a deal. But instead, they are pushing a system-wide preference for performance- vs fidelity-mode, I dont get it. This is similar to the whole debate regarding subtitles, even in 2023 there are way too many games that tie subtitle/text-language and spoken language to the same setting 👎.
If you tell me where the Demo stores it settings (I failed to find anything in APP_DATA), I will gladly do some detailed testing to help out.
Should you require more testing, translation help or anything else that I can provide (as stated before, I lack the time to code for you 😢), do not hesitate to tell me.
Pedro
Admiral
I don’t know if it’s a translation issue but you’re aware the second button mapping is a toggle? Ie you have to hold both buttons to pull off that function, not an alternative binding? I only ask as when most people opt to use a toggle it is a single consistent button.
The other buttons are known to work, I will however test again locally and put the team on it but if they are getting bound they should be functioning in game.
Close to launch we might go the Pokémon route of a prompt first time you load or an external settings application, or we could prompt you on installation and add the language to the shortcut (which is what we assumed people would be doing anyway so didn’t expect any issues here) - it’s a low priority though and would definitely be dependent on how other features are looking. We will definitely avoid doing it the Sony way as language change in game that means unloading your strings, reloading anything that used them which is presumably why wciv removed the option - it’s not a design choice, it’s removing a week of man hours with limited resources.
Not all Sony studios do it; insomniac don’t even bother to put in most other languages (which sucks as my kids who only speak Japanese wanted to play ratchett). I’ve never personally had an issue with the Nintendo method of system settings controlling language, my kids use my switch all the time and it’s pretty quick to go back and forth but definitely not anticipating people will be going that route here.
The other buttons are known to work, I will however test again locally and put the team on it but if they are getting bound they should be functioning in game.
Close to launch we might go the Pokémon route of a prompt first time you load or an external settings application, or we could prompt you on installation and add the language to the shortcut (which is what we assumed people would be doing anyway so didn’t expect any issues here) - it’s a low priority though and would definitely be dependent on how other features are looking. We will definitely avoid doing it the Sony way as language change in game that means unloading your strings, reloading anything that used them which is presumably why wciv removed the option - it’s not a design choice, it’s removing a week of man hours with limited resources.
Not all Sony studios do it; insomniac don’t even bother to put in most other languages (which sucks as my kids who only speak Japanese wanted to play ratchett). I’ve never personally had an issue with the Nintendo method of system settings controlling language, my kids use my switch all the time and it’s pretty quick to go back and forth but definitely not anticipating people will be going that route here.
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I suspected it was something like that and YES, that might indeed be the issue. I will re-test.
Pedro
Admiral
Umschalten, as that is the meaning of toggle in German. Wechsel is more like exchanging or switching things but, crucially, does not convey the notion that something is on or off. Of course, languages are funny ☺️ and notions are different. The German Lichtschalter is equivalent to the English light switch, which goes to show that the on/off-notion difference between those two words, aka toggle and switch is rather nonexisting in English. To my mind, the main difference between switch and toggle in English is actually a haptic one, as the switch is something one "pushes", a toggle is something that is "moved" while a lever is something one grabs and "flips".
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In other news, a retest without any toggles involved reveal that there is indeed an issue 😱. While keys like next turret work fine, keys like next or previous target do not. As you can see on the attached screenshot, I have bound all of them and (trust me on this) they are all on the same hat of the same device and these keys work. However, I have certain that they are bound and the issue is more of a multi-read, as I have seen the target indicator switch for a fraction of a second before being back at the original target and re-aquiring the lock.
I suspect there is some code missing that stops reading a key-press for buttons like these. Holding afterburner obviously should trigger when pressed and while pressed but switching between targets should only execute on the former.
I suspect there is some code missing that stops reading a key-press for buttons like these. Holding afterburner obviously should trigger when pressed and while pressed but switching between targets should only execute on the former.
Attachments
Finally, I did a retest for this one too, including checking the english version. That key binding is indeed missing from all four pages of the settings, however the key for nearest target seems to do the trick. If this is a case of misslabeling or if another non-listed binding triggers, I cannot say.
If you want me to report such things somewhere else than a forum thread, just tell me. Opening a Redmine, GitHub, Mantis or what Ticket is fine with me too.
Attachments
Pedro
Admiral
Thanks. For the target lock that's just one of many keys we considered unimportant for the demo with its limited complexity.
As with the original game pressing "Nearest Target" will also lock them if not previously locked so that's not a bug.
The next and previous targeting however is present across all input devices, including keyboard; that's definitely an issue with the new version of the demo. I'll prioritise looking into it.
And thanks. I realise it's not fun to get something that doesn't work but without an army of testers the best way for us to make sure the final release is stable is to keep putting out new versions of the demo to catch issues like this. This particular issue I'm pretty sure was introduced when I had to account for vehicles switching teams (i.e. Maniac in mission 1).
EDIT: I've got a local fix where next target is fixed and prev target is replaced with lock target. Might take a week or two to push out the latest version publicly however as we'll need to do testing (a lot has gone in since the last build).
I was also mid adding UI d-pad navigation so I'll probably want to finish that up first.
As with the original game pressing "Nearest Target" will also lock them if not previously locked so that's not a bug.
The next and previous targeting however is present across all input devices, including keyboard; that's definitely an issue with the new version of the demo. I'll prioritise looking into it.
And thanks. I realise it's not fun to get something that doesn't work but without an army of testers the best way for us to make sure the final release is stable is to keep putting out new versions of the demo to catch issues like this. This particular issue I'm pretty sure was introduced when I had to account for vehicles switching teams (i.e. Maniac in mission 1).
EDIT: I've got a local fix where next target is fixed and prev target is replaced with lock target. Might take a week or two to push out the latest version publicly however as we'll need to do testing (a lot has gone in since the last build).
I was also mid adding UI d-pad navigation so I'll probably want to finish that up first.
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No thanks needed. I am doing this because it improves a game that I want to materialize and I know full well what I am getting into when I agree to test something.
Okay, I've tried several times to play the demo. It appears to install fine, but it won't start. At all. I try running it as administrator, and I get the "Do you want to allow this program to make changes" message, click Okay, and then nothing happens. I'm on an HP Omen gaming laptop currently running Windows 11.
DefianceIndustries
Rear Admiral
What graphics card are you using?